Looking to do some bikepacking/walking this summer/autumn/probably not winter and I’m in need of a proper sleeping bag.

I’ve not narrowed it down as such, but I have seen a couple that have tickled my fancy

First up is a Snugpak Softie 9 Hawk – http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=93-101&ItemID=229

Alpkit Pipedream 600 – http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16320&category_id=286

Blacks Ledge 400 – http://www.blacks.co.uk/camping/sleeping-bags-and-liners/product/093890/blk-ledge-400.html?attribute=3703232

Probably going to discount the Alpkit as it appears sold out. So what do people reckon? I’m really not sure if I want down or synthetic, anyone shed any light?

Thanks for any help.

There’s a good explanation of the pros/cons of down and synthetic on Alpkit’s site.

If you plan to carry it a lot (rather than car camping), then down is generally preferred since it offers lower weight and pack size for the same warmth.

Don’t worry about the “but down is crap when it’s wet” arguments – I’ve never managed to get a down bag wet, other than a bit of damp from condensation etc, and I spend most weekends in a tent. You need to have done something a bit daft to get it wet IMO. Keep it in it’s dry bag until you’re ready to sleep in it. Unless you plan on sleeping in your bath, it will be fine.

The Skyehigh/Pipedream 600’s are good bags – if you can hang back until mid/late summer then it would be a good buy.

If you need one now, and are not too bothered about additional bulk and weight, then the Snugpaks are great value and seem to be well liked by most.

🙂

I brought one of these the other day : http://www.rockrun.com/products/Rab-Alpine-600.html

Seems very warm, but have only tried it indoors thus far – good rep mind. Resolves the down getting wet problem as well – it has a waterproof outer.

A few (hopefully helpful) points about down:
– Pertex Endurance is not waterproof but it is highly water resistant. So if you get condensation on it, or spill water on it, it’ll be fine but dragging it across a wet grassy field to hang it on a line to dry might not be. Also don’t forget that the seams/stitching are not waterproof so moisture can get in that way.
– peterfile is right in that down bags can take more abuse than you think but it is still best to treat them with respect i.e. carry around in a dry bag and store them loose when back home. As with any insulation material if you store it compressed then it doesn’t get to loft (fluff up), so over time will lose it’s high thermal performance.
– The best top tip is to use a thin liner to avoid sweat and other natural oils getting thru the sleeping bag inner material and on to the feathers, this reduces lofting over time too.
– Down bags are not instantly warm. The process is you heat the bag then it keeps you toasty all night. So have a decent meal to generate some heat before you hit the sack
– People who look after down bags never moan about them, people who don’t take good care of them always moan that they’re not as good as they should be.
– Don’t be afraid to ignore the relative ratings of bags; they are a guide not an absolute. There are so many different ways of measuring it. If you are hot person and fight with the quilt each night then you’re more likely to be happy than a lizard who is cold on a hot day. Obvious I know but the official ratings vary from credible to utter bollocks. Mountain Equipment put sensible temperature ranges on their bags. Ignore the extreme rating – that is the temp at which you will not die but you’ll be freezing and in pain
– pack size and weight are 2main things to consider once you’ve found a warm bag. If it’s huge when packed then you’ll leave it at home on each trip

re: sleeping bag ratings, here’s some food for though

Back to your original post:
Snugpak have been making great bags for years – they are very underrated
Alpkit are great but have occasional supply problems and the Pipedream bags are narrow and short if you’re over 6ft or broad shouldered then it’ll be a struggle. If you’re not then they’re fab

Good points ElShalimo.

I hang my bags on a hanger (Alpkit helpfully put little tabs on the footbox) on the back of a cupboard door as soon as I get home from a trip, then drybag them as I pack to go away again. Haven’t suffered any noticeable loft to date.

A handy tip for getting the bag nice and snug before you get in (although I must admit, I only tend to do this in the middle of winter when you really can’t bear the first 15 mins in a bag) – put your cooking water in a bottle and stick it in the middle of bag while you eat your meal (shuffle it around a bit), the bag will feel much nicer when you dive in!

Having used both down and synthetic I find sythetic bags prohibitively bulky and heavy for anything but the summer. Comparing two quality bags of subjectively similar performance:

Pyrenex Alpine 900, 90% silver pyrenean duck down 10% feather, weighs just over a kilo (990gm claimed), -17/-1/+4, drops into the bottom of an Ortlieb panier. 160e

Ferrino Nadir, hollow fibre stuff, weighs just over 2kg, -10/-3/+2, nearly fills an Ortlieb panier. 80e

The Pyrenex replaces a Rab which survived 23 years, several soakings and a professional wash before being retired as I started to look like a duck after sleeping in it.

Edit to add rough prices.

Ideally want something small and light, so that points to down..

But going off the two up there, the Snugpak is heavier but the Blacks Ledge packs bigger.

Is there another alternative? Looking to spend around a £100.

Oh and not all down, or synthetic bags, are created equally.
There is a Lorch test for down which is roughly how much space a set amount of down fills. The best down fills more space per g of down but costs silly money.
Then EU down ratings are not the same as US (not as good as EU) so be careful if you go for a US bag. More light reading here

For synthetic bags the Mountain Hardwear Lamina bags are really very good. They compress more and are lighter than competitors for same temp rating due to design of the synthetic insulation. My wife has one and its very good
Beware the length too, US bags are usually for 6ft users in std length so if taller you’ll need a long length. Super lightweight bags are generally shorter length to reduce weight too.
good luck!!

I’m 6 foot which I reckon puts me on the edge length wise. Might just look up some B+B’s 😆

I hate TNF kit but this is good – North Face Cats Meow
Ajungulak make good bags, so do Mountain Equipment & Marmot & Nanok –
they may not have all the latest bells & whistles but they are good and proven to be so after many years
Rab have a new range of synthetic bags that are worth looking at too

Remember that you can always wear more clothes to stay warm

http://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=70_63&products_id=3434&oscsid=0ms11qdmj2evhhto49ainf9d46

http://www.trekitt.co.uk/mountain-hardwear-lamina-20-regular-right-zip.ir?cName=all-brands-mountain-hardwear

I’d be surprised if the Blacks packs up bigger in the real world. The Alpkit you’ve found and the Pyrenex will both be warmer, lighter and pack up smaller still but are also both over budget. You pays your money and… .

Edukator – Member
I’d be surprised if the Blacks packs up bigger in the real world. The Alpkit you’ve found and the Pyrenex will both be warmer, lighter and pack up smaller still but are also both over budget. You pays your money and… .

Could probably stretch to more if I could justify spending it. The Alpkit is out of stock so I’m ruling that out.

I’ll give that Pyrenex one a look.

That Blacks one – Although not a fashionable name, it would do the job I wanted, wouldn’t it?

Looking at the synthetic Rab Genesis 3 – Nearly 2kg and pack size seems massive, so I’m ruling that out.

Assuming the -13 is to Norme euro EN 13537 then the Blacks fits your three season needs if you’re prepared to sleep with most of your clothes on. If there’s a Blacks near you have a look at it – if it lofts nicely, buy it. It’s pretty obvioous if a down bag is going to work when you throw it out and give it a shake.

Edukator – Member
Assuming the -13 is to Norme euro EN 13537 then the Blacks fits your three season needs if you’re prepared to sleep with most of your clothes on. If there’s a Blacks near you have a look at it – if it lofts nicely, buy it. It’s pretty obvioous if a down bag is going to work when you throw it out and give it a shake.

Just been speaking to my mate who’s one of these outdoorsy people and it turns out he’s got one. He says he’s used it loads, most recently, in a blizzard on Sprinkling Tarn. I assume that means it’s OK. 😆

The Blacks bag has extreme of -13 which means in real terms the limit is probably +5 or 7C. Also any decent down bag will tell you the ratio of down to feather such as 90:10 and the down rating such as 650EU fill
That blacks bag may be made by a good company but looking at the spec it might as well be made from fairy dust
Given that down bags have gone up in price an awful lot over the last 2-3 years I’d stick to synthetic for £100 if you can’t get one in a sale.

This is a good buy but out of budget – Rab Ascent 700 £139
MH Lamina 20 Long £115
TNF Cats Meaow £79

ElShalimo – Member
The Blacks bag has extreme of -13 which means in real terms the limit is probably +5 or 7C. Also any decent down bag will tell you the ratio of down to feather such as 90:10 and the down rating such as 650EU fill
That blacks bag may be made by a good company but looking at the spec it might as well be made from fairy dust
Given that down bags have gone up in price an awful lot over the last 2-3 years I’d stick to synthetic for £100 if you can’t get one in a sale.

This is a good buy but out of budget – Rab Ascent 700 £139
MH Lamina 20 Long £115
TNF Cats Meaow £79

I’m going to up the budget and say £150ish in that case. Is that Pyrenex one available anywhere in the UK?

Actually, that Rab one is pretty good, that might be the winner.

Go Outdoors have MH Lamina 20s for £70 and Lamina 35s for £80. I’ve just bought one of the latter and will be using it this weekend.

You told downie in time for him to order one in time?

I got one too courtesy of Druidh picking it up for me and wl also be using it this weekend.

I got one LH zip and one RH zip so we can zip them together…..

If you are not fully kitted out I will ride off into the sunset and not even Sportive-fit druid will catch me.

I have a For synthetic bags the Mountain Hardwear Lamina bags are really very good. They compress more and are lighter than competitors for same temp rating due to design of the synthetic insulation. My wife has one and its very good

I also have a Lamina 0, it’s very good, but doesn’t pack down very far. It kept me very toasty in Novemeber in Snowdonia (frost on the bivi bag). I’ve brought a down bag as it’ll pack down much more, and is also lighter.

Whilst the temperature ratings are bollocks, the EU test is a ISO standard so bags that have been tested to that standard are directly comparable at least on a relative level. A bag with a comfort rating of -7 may or may not keep you warm at -7, but it is certainly warmer than one that says -3 (if both have done to the EU ISO standard).

I think some US bags are done to the ISO standard as well – they normally make a thing about it tho if they are.

Remember that the lowest rating is an extreme rating – this is the temperature a fully clothed adult male can survive in the bag in. As in won’t die not will have a comfy nights kip. I find the womans comfort rating is normally about right for me. Remember all the ratings assume you’re fully clothed.

daleftw – Member

Now you’ve changed your budget I’d re-state your requirements then you’ll find there probably aren’t many suitable bags around
so:
£150 max
temp rating
max weight
max pack size
std or long length. 6ft/183cm

Normally the thought of a second hand sleeping bag would make me wince but if you know someone who has looked after it well, a 2nd hand bag will have plenty of like left in it. Franklins (Sheffield) are highly regarded down bag cleaner – they can clean, restore & repair so it’s almost good as new.

I have a Rab Alpine down bag, and it is basically my favourite possession. It came with a dry bag stuff sack and a big cotton storage bag for at home. I look after it and keep it dry as I can. Its done loads of camping in all 4 seasons, its done about a dozen bivis and is just flipping brilliant with great baffles.

I swoon, no word of a lie, swoon, when I snuggle into my Rab.

Cumulus are a good UK brand and make very good bags.
The Ultralight 200 is now within your budget here
full spec here

I tried one a couple of years ago but I’m chunky and just over 6ft1 and I found it a tight fit. Wearing socks & a hat and a insulated vest will help

Interesting this

I have an alpkit skyehigh 600, but it is too short for me (6 foot, but broad, so shoulders ale up some of the length)

Looking for a replacement. Alpkit do a longer version, but as stated above, out of stock until mid / late summer

Am therefore looking at rab ascent 500 and 700. However, the alpkit 600 seems to fit between these in terms of warmth (600g fill vs 500 or 700, all are 650 fill power but alpkit is on warmer euro vs us scale). Alpkit and 700 rated to -5c (mid rating); 500 to 1c.

Any experience / comments in these for general 3 season use? Was chilly in alpkit at about freezing, but didntj have baffles done up as it was too short.

Basically worried rab 700 will be too hot and 500 not warm enough – use April – November

Thanks

I would have thought as you won’t be using it in the depths of winter the 500 would be fine. Just exercise good sleeping bag technique: have some hot food, get toasty before you settle down by doing some push ups or star jumps or whatever and wear a hat and merino long johns and top on the really cold nights, or even a down/synthetic down coat too.

And enjoy!

First up is a Snugpak Softie 9 Hawk – http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=93-101&ItemID=229

I have this bag and have used it quite a lot – lovely and comfy – good down to -10 easily – overwarm on a summers night – so much so thast I have a thinner snugpak for that

Packs easily into alpkit 20litre drybag with bivvy bag and extras

Plum

I bought that Rab Ascent 700 last night. Seems a decent price for what it is. Read some good reviews about the length and it being not too hot in summer despite it being a 4 season bag, so seemed ideal.

Thanks a lot for your help STW.

I like my Alpkit Pipedream 600 – warm and lightweight bag for the dosh, generous size too, not too narrow like some. You might find a deal on a similar thing from one of the big names though. Your own personal body temp makes a big difference – I ‘sleep cold’ so opted for a warmer bag for a couple of hundred grammes more weight. Get a good mat too – Thermarest Neoair makes a big difference, but it’s not cheap. It is small and light though.

Been looking at the Alpkit mats to upgrade from my foamy thing. They any good?

AlpKit’s mats are excellent value and quality for the price. If you have a problem their customer service is fab too.
self inflating mats are a lot more comfy than the closed cell foam (CCF) roll mat ones but more expensive and not as robust (the CCF rollmat types are hard to damage)
If you sleep on your side then an airbed type mat will be comfier as even the self-inflating thermarest/alpkit aren’t comfy on your hips

decent CCF mat here
self-inflating AlpKit jobby
Air bed type mat here

It’s all down to preference. A full length mat will be heavier than a 3/4 length but for me the extra protection is worth it. You’d be amazed how much heat you lose to the ground

Some of the snugpaks are very small, make sure you check the measurements and don’t assume they’ll be an average fit. I’ve had a throughly crap and cold week wild camping on the back of this mistake in the past…

Top tip with sleeping bags – some are stuffed less on the bottom than the top. This is fine if you are sleeping on your back, but if you want to sleep on your side and you just roll over with the bag (as seems logical given the mummy hood) then you get a very cold back and arse.

In this situation you have to roll over inside the bag, and then try and adjust the breathing hole in the hood to sit over your mouth and nose. It can be done 🙂