[Closed] Overtaking.

Solo - Member

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why people drive slowly until you go to overtake. Then floor it. Whats that all about then ?

An affront to manhood, I assume.

Seriously? 540 posts on overtaking?

A short summary of progress made to date is required. 😉

[i]An affront to manhood, I assume.[/i]

Yes, I had imagined that might be the case. I once had this with a young lad. Every time I entered lane 2 to over take, he'd give it the gas. When we got into town, we had to stop at a red light. So I got out to approach him. My genuine intention was to ask. Why. He saw me and floored the car right through a red light.
😯

After this many pages, regardless of what the title is, the conversation's normally mostly about having a conversation 😉

[i]A short summary of progress made to date is required.[/i]

We're all in a que, waiting for someone up front to overtake.
😉

I don't want to get entangled in a "right or wrong" or "my point of view" kinda argument, because generally everyone has their own view on things (and rightly so) but i'd just say one final thing:

It will be much easier, and far more productive to change the way "you" (whoever that you is) act, than to wait or wish for everyone else to change! One of the side effects of a lot of the advanced driver training courses is that, generally without you even realising it, they actuslly prevent this sort of situation occuring, and then you don't need to fix the problem!

Much like our Jedi teaching MTBers good footwork / looking / body positioning basics, those skills help prevent riders actuslly getting into situations that they currently can't control!

The issue in particular with Driving is that everyone is an expert, afterall, i've been "driving for 20 years" (or whatever) so how can i not be?? And, again, much like being jedi'd, the real trick is mental, and involves "openning ones mind" to new and different ideas and techniques. (Usually so simple and obvious you can't quite belief you have never tried them 😉

rebel12 - Member

"the guy behind me knew i wanted to overtake, but took 'my'* opportunity"

Very strange! What makes it 'YOUR' opportunity? Do you own the road perhaps?

hence my* inverted commas.

i was just explaining something to someone, there's no need to get all rude about it.

(*i mean 'mine' as in; i typed them. i'm not laying sole claim to the use of inverted commas)

and like i said, i don't lose any sleep over it.

We're all in a que, waiting for someone up front to overtake.

I see. 😉

So I'll just pull in at the back and wind my window down. Is this one of those queues that's going to make me angry?

How do you feel about somebody using the last teabag in the communal pot which was "yours"?

Alright. Say I'm old and infirm, and I'm hobbling my way over to the kitchen to make a cup of tea. Young sales rep sees me approaching, and sprints over, barges in front at the last second and grabs the last teabag.

Ah so you don't own the road, just the right to always be first on it if you want then?

No, I've been waiting my turn patiently, and someone else takes it instead of me.

[i]Is this one of those queues that's going to make me angry?[/i]

Less of that whinging from the back there. You'll just have to wait your turn.
🙂

Im trying to understand how anyone is supposed to differentiate between molgrips pondering on overtaking and a ditherer who has no intention of overtaking?
In short you dont, so you have two options.

1) Overtake and be damned
2) Dont overtake and be damned.

So which one is right??

You'll just have to wait your turn.

You know, I'm thinking I could just swing out onto the verge and take the whole lot of you in one effective swoop... I have somewhere important to be and I can't hang around forever. 😉

I think molgrips standing near the teabag tin chatting and thinking about making a cup when somebody else wanders up, makes a cup of tea and leaves before he notices would be a better analogy.

What family 'cooking' car does 0-60 in 8 seconds?

Pandas - Eats, shoots and leaves.

[i]So which one is right??[/i]

My answer ?, if you've no intention of overtaking, put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. In other words, leave a gap. That's then the gap those who do wish to get by. Can drift into, before launching an assault of the main obstacle.
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Some will disagree.
😀

This still going on?

The fact that people can get so cross about someone flashing their lights at them or slotting into a space puts into perspective a lot of the anger over [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/thatchers-gone-according-to-bbc ]here[/url].

I was overtaken this morning. It was fine. Somehow I worked through the emotional impact of it all, don't ask me how.

[i]You know, I'm thinking I could just swing out onto the verge and take the whole lot of you in one effective swoop... I have somewhere important to be and I can't hang around forever.[/i]

[img] [/img]

😆

Solo - Member
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why people drive slowly until you go to overtake. Then floor it. Whats that all about then ?

It i'm afriad is actually very simple, and comes down once again to not paying sufficient attention to the task in hand.

For the vast majority of people, driving is just something they do in order to go do something else, rather than a specific task in it's own right. Hence the average driver tends to pick a speed that matches their concentration and observation level. At this speed, not thinking about driving at all, they are entirely reactive, and simple procede along in their own "bubble". Typically they won't have noticed say the road leaving a built up area, or better visibility that "signals" that more speed could be appropriate etc. Hence, when you overtake you "suprise" and "wake them up" and 9 times out of ten, this impetus to re-consider their surrounding makes them realise that a faster speed would have been more appropriate!

Added to which, the typical driver has little confidence in the way they drive, more often than not simply following the car ahead etc. Traffic officers must get very tired of the phrase "well officer, everyone else was speeding too" as an excuse when getting stopped.

Generally speaking, i like to overtake these "sleep drivers" and then drive in a fashion that simply prevents then from latching on to my bumper like an unwanted "spoiler" 😉

[i]I was overtaken this morning. It was fine. Somehow I worked through the emotional impact of it all, don't ask me how.[/i]

I too have broken this barrier. Sort of, but I never really got upset about being over taken. It just never really use to happen.

However, two things happened. I got older and I got cruise control.
8)

xiphon - Member
What family 'cooking' car does 0-60 in 8 seconds?

pretty much any modern turbo diesel will now do that or thereabouts.

Solo - Member

My answer ?, if you've no intention of overtaking, put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. In other words, leave a gap. That's then the gap those who do wish to get by.

That's a small gap!

I think this is part of the problem, we're a nation of tailgaters and there's nothing a dawdler likes more than to get really close to the car in front and obstruct other people, and likewise there's nothing a frustrated overtaker likes to do more than getting so close to the bus/truck in front that they can't see a damn thing.

[i]For the vast majority of people, driving is just something they do in order to go do something else, rather than a specific task in it's own right. Hence the average driver tends to pick a speed that matches their concentration and observation level. At this speed, not thinking about driving at all, they are entirely reactive, and simple procede along in their own "bubble". Typically they won't have noticed say the road leaving a built up area, or better visibility that "signals" that more speed could be appropriate etc. Hence, when you overtake you "suprise" and "wake them up" and 9 times out of ten, this impetus to re-consider their surrounding makes them realise that a faster speed would have been more appropriate![/i]
😯

Thats as may be, but there are those drivers who appear not to able to stand you passing them. Like those people who drive in lane 3, when lanes 1 and 2 are proper empty, for miles.
I've seen that get fruity on the Mway, early in the morning. Infact, its amazing what you see, if you just stay out the way and watch the Andy Greens' do their thing

[i]That's a small gap![/i], [i]we're a nation of tailgaters[/i]
Nice try.
How about the entire sentence:
[i]My answer ?, if you've no intention of overtaking, put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. [b]In other words, leave a gap.[/b][/i]
😉

Indeed, i would generally use 10 car lengths as the "i'm following someone but i don't mind" distance. It's enough to open your sightlines fully, but small enough to quickly convert into a "close follow" position when sizing up an overtake etc. (obviously the gap should be dynamic, being velocity and situationally dependent etc)

Not really a "try"- it's true, at 40mph say, the recommended 2 seconds minimum gap is 120 feet- more like 10 car lengths. Not for allowing overtaking, but just to allow safe stopping. Now the official stopping distances etc aren't universally accepted but I don't think there's much argument that drivers tend not to leave big enough gaps (and that when you do, people tend to pull into it). I know I don't.

2 to 3 car lengths isn't a gap, it's barely the highway code stopping distance at 20mph.

Unlike in Molegrips Britain, he rest of Europe just will not queue like the British? Try getting an Italian driver to do as Molegrips is suggesting.

Does this mean that the whole of Europe populated by the worst kind of selfish bast**ds?

Are we perhaps here in England perhaps superior to the rest of the world because we like to queue?

N/W.

I'm sure you're not missing my point, but I'll repeat it, hopefully more clearly.

Its only my opinion, but if someone isn't interested in the overtake. Then perhaps they should leave a useful gap between themselves and the vehicle in front. So that those behind, who do wish to hurtle towards the horizon at warp speed. May do so.
🙂

[i]Does this mean that the whole of Europe populated by the worst kind of selfish bast**ds?[/i]

Probably. Afterall, they spent all their Euros !

[i]Are we perhaps here in England perhaps superior to the rest of the world because we like to queue?[/i]

Easy Tiger, who you accusing of liking to que ?
😉

I'm not missing that point, no- I'm saying that what your post is, well, contradictory. Leaving a bigger gap for overtaking is a very good idea, yes, but "put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry." is what you said.

[i]I'm not missing that point, no- I'm saying that what your post is, well, contradictory.[/i]

No its not !

I wrote.

[i]put 2 or 3 car lengths between you and the rear of the lorry. [b]In other words, leave a gap[/b][/i]

I then reposted the sentence and higlighted part of it in bold. You are now deliberately missing this for a reaction.
Commonly referred to as Trolling. Quoting stopping distances for a group of vehicles who are all moving at relative speed to one another can not have static stopping distances as quoted in the H/C applied to them. I have seen much smaller gaps used, at what distance one considers this to be dangerous is open to individual interpretation.
The main point I was promoting, was to be considerate and leave a gap for others to use in order to get by. Its not my intention to succumb to the attempts to drag my comments into the analysis of the minutiae of feet and inches.
😆

Longer than they typically do, which is not at all.

When you start planning your overtake?

Not when there's still windy roads and another car in front.

I'm objecting to the guy who overtakes ME, long before there's any gap I can use.

I'll be planning to execute an overtake immediately after each bend

That's shit driving. So you're the idiot sat just off the back corner of the lorry swerving in and out all the time - good job.

Who said anything about swerving in and out?

He said he was preparing for an overtake. To me, that means speeding up and moving to the white line to try and see down the road.

Or does he just mean steeling himself mentally?

You know what, this is the stupidest thread ever on STW.

No, you just don't like being overtaken 😉

[i]I start planning mine as soon as I see a car in front.[/i]

+1.

Vehicle.

He said he was preparing for an overtake. To me, that means speeding up and moving to the white line to try and see down the road.

Or does he just mean steeling himself mentally?

Preparing to overtake doesn't necessarily mean speeding up and moving to the white line. If done correctly it may often require you to loose speed / not close up to give you a view past the vehicle in front or to move to the nearside to see up the inside of the vehicle in front. It is not good practice to accelerate towards the vehicle in front and then dart out and past it makes more sense to move to an overtaking position and then accelerate past if it is safe

Solo, how is it trolling? it's just what you said, no interpretation on my part, and I quoted it in full so your suggestion's way off.

As I said- leaving a bigger gap to allow people to overtake into is a good idea, no disagreement. But your recommendation of a suitable gap is miles off- your "bigger" gap is less than the normal recommended gap at 20mph, and less than 1/3d the normal gap at 40mph, even leaving aside the extra room you think you're leaving. So your normal gap must be even smaller.

Leaving a safe gap between cars isn't minutae.

I'm objecting to the guy who overtakes ME, long before there's any gap I can use.

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

Assuming that this guy has been following at a safe distance then that's at least 2 seconds advantage you have but probably much more than that, particularly as you've described the fast car is coming from a few cars back.

Sorry but the only possible solution must be that you're late or hesitant to react, or that you've been positioning your car to give nowhere near enough visibility of what's ahead. Either way you can't really blame your frustrations on the guy behind?

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

No it's not. I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Then the next time there's space for two cars, they both go (at the speed of the first one) and I can't.

Assuming that this guy has been following at a safe distance

Why assume that?

Maybe take some in car footage and get back to us...

my car can't use, but his can

So it's nothing more than being jealous of his car's performance?

molgrips - Member

This is completely impossible since you come round the bend first, you see the straight clear road and overtaking opportunity first, and you have a chance to react first.

No it's not. I come round the bend, see a short straight that my car can't use, but his can, so he takes it.

Then the next time there's space for two cars, they both go (at the speed of the first one) and I can't.

Oh so you're saying that just because you can't or won't go in a certain situation then you begrudge someone else for taking the opportunity. Don't you see how selfish that sounds?

What's your reaction when this happens?

Maybe you could mount one of these on the side of your car that you could raise and lower as required? That would stop them in their tracks and make them aware that it's not yet their turn!

[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpMqa08AFk-MVZQguS-46tofhFPtH51mkBE0SKp3N2PszHWbJaWQ [/img]