[Closed] Log burning stove- ideas

I will watch this with interest, as I have a very nice stove in my main room, but am considering a second for the front room - but as it would be used a good deal less, need not be as nice as the stove in the main.

Depends on how much you're going to diy and what needs doing to the existing Chimney.

Yes it is but you will get shouted down by those who want a "professional" job. Done half a dozen for myself and the family have done even more.
Depends on how cheap you want. Machine Mart stoves work fine. I would guess that in 25 years time they might not but doubt they have been around that long. I do suspect that if you need a big one quality may be more important.
Much easier in an old house though.

Noted on machinemart- ta.

I can do alot of the work myself. The only bits I can't do is lining the chimney? and re plastering around.

We where quoted £1500 all in to have a log burner installed. That included the flu, hearth etc.

When you re-plaster:

1 - Use a heatproof plaster and paint in the fireplace behind the stove or it will crack like hell.

2 - Chip off the plaster for a good distance (a metre or more) around the fireplace before making good because if you don't, the expansion of the new plaster around the hot stove will cause stress cracks to appear all along the join between old and new plaster. Guess how I know this?

Ah! Cheers 🙂

£1500 is a bit steep- what did the quote involve/did it include (their) sourced stove?

£1500 is a bit steep- what did the quote involve/did it include (their) sourced stove?

Ymmv - it obviously does but heat proof plaster yes - final skim was gyproc prolite and just plain magnolia. And in the fireplace is just plain old pure brilliant white.

How ever i have a gert chunk of oak and an eco fan shielding the heat from the stove 🙂

And 1500 is a bargain for all that imo although dependant on stove used. .

I would have assumed DIY

Just be aware the flue may (probably) need lining, and the installation of a woodburner is subject to Building Regulations control, so you either need to use a HETAS registered installer or submit an application to your Local Authority.

Also, since 2010 you need to install a carbon monoxide room detector in the same room as the appliance.

DIY/dodgy woodburner installations account for a large percentage of domestic fires through the winter, I have friends who are retained fire fighters who regularly attend chimney fires caused by poor installations.

£1500 for all that IME is cheap - it cost £930 to have just my chimney lined and the liner fitted to my stove (by far the cheapest quote I had!) - for a 2 storey circa 1905 house with a relatively straight chimney.

It's messy, potentially dangerous and legally certifiable work - hence the cost, I suspect.

Worth it though.. 😉

I got a cheapish stove though - despite my fitter's protestations.

Me to fitter: okay, so it's a high quality Chinese-made stove, what fundamentally is the difference with this Swedish one that costs twice as much

Him: Essentially, nothing. But it's just better.

(On reflection and after a year of use, I think I can see his point)

It's a bit like buying a Boardman over an Ibis. It works okay, but you know it could be so much more... nicerer

I didn't think it sounded a lot?

True/agree.

I'd be opening up the fireplace slightly (I'd previously put a piece of chipboard over and nailed a mdf fire-surround around), removing the 'cheeks' that were eitherside of the gasfire that was in there (all piping already safely removed.

See below, the inner edge is the edge of the fireplace brick aperture ('cheeks' are inside that to be knocked out). Shouldn't be too hard- I demolished a huge 70's brick/slate/mortar monstrosity around it to get to that!

[img] [/img]

£1500 is a great price all in defo.

Hora, the expensive bit is if you have to/decide to line the chimney.
See old threads on here re lining or not.
Paid just over a grand for fitting of lining, cowl & register plate.

If the bricks in fireplace are ok condition just re-point them as I did.
[img] [/img]

I have done them myslef it not exactly rockert science

Stove at the bottom flue through your chimney and attach- depending on age you may not even need a flue pipe depending on smoke test results.
Observe some rules on gaps and the like and ta dah its done.

Cheap stoves will eventually warp [ is steel] and /or crack if cast iron IMHO-Cast iron is generally better and dearer IMHO This may take years/decade to occur so your choice so I would probably get a good quality second hand one myself

Plastering almost always cracks near a fire anyway so i would avoid it personally and leave exposed brick but that is a personal choice.

i would get it signed off as well but its really not that hard to do

I've been quoted £150 for fitting inc pipe & plate. £500 if it needs lining. That's in Brighouse by my chimney sweep.

I do agree though that its not the most technical job, barring lining the chimney so can't see what is wrong with DIYing it if you have the time.

Our Stovax Stockton is 4 years old and perfect. Anybody tried a Mendip? I reckon you get what you pay for..

I've got two stoves, one I installed myself but with no flue liner (external chimney which is not 'very' old - may fit one at a later date) and another fitted by a pro (internal flue which I had lined).
The latter cost about £1000 for the liner and fitting (which was rather involved as it's an insert stove and required the old fireback removing and other bits and pieces) and I was happy with that.
My suggestions are:
1) Buy a good quality used stove off eBay and do it up yourself with new paint/seals/bricks and glass. I've done this three times and it's really dead easy.
2) If you're putting a liner in, make sure it's a good quality one as you don't want to be doing it all over again in 5 years time - the cheap ones do not last as long as they say they do.
3) Steer clear of cheap stoves. You may initially save a couple of hundred quid but if it's constantly sooting up/hard to start you're going to be mightily pi$$ed off in 6 months time.

There is also a question mark over smokeless coal and flue liners as well. My installer has seen many liners destroyed by the chemicals in smokeless coal in as little as two or three years.

Apologies for the thick question, how can you test if it needs lining?

There used to be proper fireplaces in our house (on the floor above you could see the outline of the small fireplace surround in the upstairs fireplace wall!.

I'm just worried that someone with a vested interest will say' yep you you do/when its already lined (or doesn't need it) then pocket the cash.

Any independent tests(ers?)

Quite a [url= http://thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=21&sid=4624bb798901b453a8ece9b337e14e34 ]good forum over there[/url] for info.

I'd take your £1500 quote in a heartbeat... I've been quoted over twice as much to remove this gas job and fit a stove.

[img] [/img][/url]

Bloke did reckon it would take over a week and involve much faffage with skips due to the amount of fill that has been used to build up the fireplace to this, and the house is three story so much flue required.

I'll not be getting it done this year 🙁

We've been quoted £300 to move the pipe which is pretty much the same as installing a new pipe. That said the pipe isn't enclosed in a flue or chimney in the living room and is only boxed in in the bedroom upstairs.

£1500 is really cheap to install a stove. We paid £2600 to go from this:

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To this:

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The stove was £1500 though.

Does a modern(ish) clay pipe chimney need lining?

I had our fitted last winter. £2002 all in. Stove was ~£700 of that.

hora - Member
Apologies for the thick question, how can you test if it needs lining?

Open up the fire place, and chuck in a smoke bomb.. See where the smoke emerges.. If nowhere but the top, you're laughing..

See where the smoke emerges.. If nowhere but the top, you're laughing..

wasnt there a thread on here last year where someones neighbour fitted a burner without a liner and filled their house up with smoke.

Open up the fire place, and chuck in a smoke bomb.. See where the smoke emerges.. If nowhere but the top, you're laughing..

Are you serious?

There isn't something that will kill you involved.

Can anyone tell me what makes stoves so special that when removing a fireplace thats been in use for the last 50 years that we need to line it ? - unless reducing to a uniform id so that airflow speed is kept the same.

While we're on the subject, I've just had a Back boiler removed do you think I could use the Back boiler Flue on a wood burning stove?

[img] http://i.imgur.com/5Qyr2N1.jp g" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/5Qyr2N1.jp g"/> [/img]

Could save me a few pennies?

[img] [/img]

Lining a chimney will allow the fire to burn more efficiently (apparently). Hora, if you need a reccommendation, look up Fired Up stoves. Based near Greetland but they do work all over the place. They're good guys though so no bodge jobs - might pay a bit more for the privelege but at risk of carbon monoxide etc seeping into your house, its money well spent.

More efficiently than what ? A collander for a chimney ?

We've been pricing up converting from gas fire to an logburning stove in the livingroom.
Ours would involve decomissioning the gas fire, cutting out a propper fireplace (currently it's a raised plinth), lay hearth, beam over, supply & instal fire, plaster. For that we're looking at about £2k of which the stove itself is about £1k (ESSE, made in Barlick, just around the corner from Hope)
Would be about another £500 if we need to put a liner in too.

While we're on the subject, I've just had a Back boiler removed do you think I could use the Back boiler Flue on a wood burning stove?

No you can't - way too thin.

Does a modern(ish) clay pipe chimney need lining?

Can anyone tell me what makes stoves so special that when removing a fireplace thats been in use for the last 50 years that we need to line it ?

First stove I fitted was a machine mart job - Worked fine. Hearth was a couple of slabs of slate 'borrowed' from the waste tips in wales. As far as I am aware, the fumes leaking from the 'unlined' chimney never killed anyone. Cost - £500 ish.

As far as I am aware, the fumes leaking from the 'unlined' chimney never killed anyone yet - and luckily I've not had a chimney fire

Please note you can still get chimney fires in lined flues if they're not cleaned.

I dont believe in luck Sharkbait. - Just swept the chimney

We lined ours as otherwise you need to use a clay liner adapter and I've been told by two independent sources that it generally doesn't end well (basically your can get tar running down into your fireplace.

That was what one of my freinds found when he had a stove installed in his new extension. Brand-new chimney and hearth. He immediately had problems with tarry residues dripping back into the stove and making a right mess.
He had the contractors back and got it lined.
The problem disappeared.

Don't forget also that any appliance rated over 5kW requires combustion air, (a permanently open air vent) and it's recommended for those under, unless your house is really draughty already.

Has anyone got a wood burner in a new build that doesn't have a chimney?

I like the convenience of newer houses but wouldn't mind a wood burner and would be interested to know how it compares cost wise

captain slow, you can get twin wall flue installed to 'add' a chimney. my inlaws have done this for a burner, it works as well as any existing chimney.

the twinwall stuff can be put either outside or inside - outside being the cheaper option. indoors is possible, but will cost more as you have to poke it through floors and the roof - when done you can box this stuff in (i.e. where it runs through a room).

IIRC the inlaws was ~ 1.5k for the twin wall including install (plus stove costs on top).

indoors is possible, but will cost more as you have to poke it through floors and the roof - when done you can box this stuff in (i.e. where it runs through a room).

Check with HETAS but I think you have to leave any flue joints accessible for inspection these days, so can't just box it in unless you leave inspection doors in the boxing in.

While we're on the subject, I've just had a Back boiler removed do you think I could use the Back boiler Flue on a wood burning stove?

Back boiler flue will be "gas vent" which is class 2 liner - you need Class 1 type liner for solid fuel burners and/or condensing boilers.

Has anyone got a wood burner in a new build that doesn't have a chimney?

Yes; had one installed in the house we're moving into next week - the house (bungalow) was built in '89.

We did treat ourselves to a nice stove; it was quite possibly the hardest choice we made bearing in mind we've had the house stripped back and new kitchen, bathrooms fitted, redecoration, etc., etc. The stove is a Dovre Vintage 35.

Email me, address in profile, if you want to know more.

A mate has twin wall flue in him dorma bungalow, was easy to fit did cost around £100 per metre section tho so it soon adds up!

If you do get someone in to fit it for you, please, please check if they are HETAS registered, I know it no guarantee of a safe install but as a voluntary body they were very helpful when I was caught out by a shark builder who installed a dangerous setup in my home.

I ended up paying twice, still cheaper than having an unsupported chimney come crashing down in my living room!!

We just had our fireplace opened up (enlarged) today. They will be back to fit hearth and stove soon.

£2100 covered opening up, smoke test/sweep, hearth, £500 stove, new pot and cowl, HETAS cert etc.. The guy said as long the chimney gets a clean bill of health from the smoke test, no liner required (bungalow). I suggested whether I should have one anyway (re: controllability/efficiency of stove) and he was of the opinion that most fitters just see them as a money making add-on and it wasn't required in many cases.

So I'm going with that and if I have any issues I'll get one fitted afterwards.

I was seriously tempted to go DIY with council sign off, but after four months of hard labour in the garden I am happy to pay the extra £500 or so for someone to do it for me 🙂 Feel a bit guilty going for the easy option though!

Cogi gas fitter disconnected gas pipe and made safe £60
Chimney sweep and smoke test £40
Roofer next door fitted different pot top £50
Lump hammer and cold chisel were used free with my labour.
Stovax Stockton 5 £500
Flue pipe £20
Fire cement £5
Slate tiles and grout £100
Building regs £can't remember but it wasn't a lot
Oh and check to see if you are in a smoke control zone - you'll need an approved stove if you are.

There are probably other bits and bobs but about £800 all in. My fireplace is a 1960s one built for a coal fired back boiler and fire. It already has a hearth and the chimney is a good constructon and only serves one fireplace. It has a good draft and I get it swept every year.

A friend of mine really rates imported Bulgarian woodburners - she has a place over there and used to import them I think something like 70% of their heating is wood powered, so they must be doing something right.

[url= http://www.prity-bg.com/prity.php?lang=en ]Prity stoves[/url]

Spooky, £2100 without a liner....? 😯

Anyone put one in their shed?

Anyone put one in their shed?

I'm pretty sure Stoner & McMoonter have?

I suggested whether I should have one anyway (re: controllability/efficiency of stove) and he was of the opinion that most fitters just see them as a money making add-on and it wasn't required in many cases.

I'll connect to clay wherever possible as the clay is more robust when coal burning than steel. It is very rare to get the opportunity to make a a tar tight connection though due to the way the first clay lies at an angle/on top of a lintol/part of a throat former/ out of reach on top of a huge void.

This is assuming the clay passes a smoke pressure test too, which older ones never do ime, even when they look perfect.

So, not necessarily a scam. Good fitters will do whatever is in the best interest of the client so they are happy with their lovely new stove, if this means putting a SS liner into a chimney that appears in good condition then so be it.
As others have said above, the condition of the chimney with a stove is far more important than with an open fire. They are two completely different things.

If I remember, I'll get some pics of the boiler stove tar-fest I'm going to reline at the end of the month just so you can see what I'm on about 🙂

Back to the OP, yes, a really cheap stove will probably be a false economy. The Chinese cast ones you get from B+Q and ebay are pretty nasty.
I've fitted lots of these http://www.highlandstoves.com/index.asp?pageid=355849 as the cheapest British made, decent quality, warrantied stove I could find. £375
Very, very effective and robust enough.

[i]Has anyone got a wood burner in a new build that doesn't have a chimney?

I like the convenience of newer houses but wouldn't mind a wood burner and would be interested to know how it compares cost wise
[/i]

Yep, but you also need to ensure the stove is placed away from a wall/combustables - or build up. This kinda thing:

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And £1500 was about the cost of the flue..., but there is a lot of it.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the first 'I can't get my stove setup' thread and subsequent classified ad.

I'm disappointed bedmaker didn't post the pic of a DIY installation.... 🙂

One of the issues with very cheap stoves is that they are often inefficient. This means loading up more often and unless you have access to free wood then you'll end up paying more for fuel in the long run

grum: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/since-were-back-into-the-wood-burning-season

And this is mine, with a cheaper, smaller portable stove.
http://www.campingsolutions.co.uk/stoves/frontier-stove/

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

Our first quote was around £4,500 and I pretty much laughed and threw them out.

We ended up paying £2,500 including liner and stove (a Morso which itself was about £900) plus £180 for a roofer to go up and drop the liner down as I wouldn't let the fitters anywhere near our incredibly precarious roof.

Do make sure though that you use well seasoned wood - I realised near the end of last winter that the reason it wouldn't burn well and just sizzled and smoked was very damp wood. we now have better stuff for this year.

camping one looks like it takes up a lot of floor space 🙁 will be on the look out for something smaller for my garage - big double with enormous (but not quite big enough for conversion of office :() pitched roof, so I assume best thing will be to board out & insulate at ceiling level otherwise I will be heating the air above my head?

Stoner, where did you get the rubber flue sealer thingy for the roof?

granny ring - they are called Decktite flashings - make sure you get the right size & temperature graded ones though - the cheaper black ones ain't no good for flues

Ah right cheers, off a googling he goes...

granny ring - as dicky boy says you can get Decktite ones or like mine the V-seal product

http://fluesystems.com/shop/V-Seal_ADSR40100.html

rated for 60-240degC

http://fluesystems.com/shop/Roof_Flashings.html

I've been quoted £1,200 for everything excluding the stove. It would be about £700-£800 if I opened up the fireplace myself.

There seems to be so much choice of actual stove to get and I have no idea what makes a good one or not. That one recommended by Bedmaker a few posts up seems like a decent option though.

Granny ring - the place Stoner linked to are reputable, oddly enough one of the things on my to do list is to set up a site meeting with their boss next week 🙂

dickyboy - see if you can smuggle 6m of 5" twinwall out for me 🙂

Want to put a small stove in the soon to be mancave.
It will have a ply roof with felt or if I can afford it, edpm covering. Those flashings would be the ones to use with twinwall flue and would I get a good enough seal on the felt/edpm?

buy the fixing kit with the flashing:
http://www.fluesystems.com/shop/V-Seal_VSK-S_Fixing_Kit.html

it comes with enough silicon to slather between the flashing and your roof surface to seal properly.

Best stove = Clearview http://www.clearviewstoves.com/

Helps that they're just up the road, but they really are about the best.

We paid about £2000 for our stove (Woodwarm Fireview) and all the associated fittings/flue etc. (all Scheidel stuff) plus another £950 for the builder to remove the old back boiler, enlarge the fireplace, build a slate hearth and fit everything (a weeks work). I reckon if anything is worth doing or getting done properly, this is one of them.

Best stove = Clearview http://www.clearviewstoves.com/

Cheers stoner.

recently moved into a house with a woodburner, no flue liner is evident, no obvious access hatch, house is 200yrs old, no wood, nowhere to store any (yet)

do i need an axe or a chainsaw? can i order in some coal? where is the cheapest place to buy lots of layers of clothing?

having read some of the green living forum (link earlier) im absolutely shitting it as im guaranteed to die.
chimney sweep is due this afternoon - wait and see what he says.

hora me old chum. we need to speak.
I'm going through the motions of getting a wood burner, have a fitter comming round next week to survey the chimney.

I'm assuming you are still St Retford as I havent seen your house in the classifieds 😉

St Retford? Ah yes, you live in the posher side of our area. You can only faintly hear the sirens and gunshots 😉

I'd be interested to see the quotes and who you'll use and the workmanship. One thing I found when employing people on our house...those who give out only a mobile number and drive a non-livered van seem to be shoddy workman.

Note to binners: I don't live in St Reford, I live in 'Chorlton Borders' remember 😆

I thought Chorlton Borders was Moss Side? Or do they just tell that to people who work for the BBC? 😀

Chorlton West???