From Bikerumor/SRAM :

It’s official and coming in the autumn – Hydraulic Road Disc Brakes!!

It’s been rumored that SRAM is developing RED level road hydraulic brakes. We want to confirm this and let you know that we are currently working on a hydraulic disc brake and a hydraulic rim brake. Information on pricing will come at a later date and no photos are currently available. Key features:

• Hydraulic disc brake: RED level / Drop bar DoubleTap lever actuated / All new master cylinder and caliper / 140-160mm discs

Superb stuff I think!!

Yessssssssssssssss………bring it on 8)

Rim brake? Why? Dont they already have problems with heat build up in the rim?

Rim brake? Why? Dont they already have problems with heat build up in the rim?

Would it actually make that much difference to heat build up? You’re still only slowing down from speed a to speed b you’d just be able to do it a little more quickly and I don’t think heat build up is an issue in a fast stop. If your dragging the brakes on a long downhill then your only going to build up the same heat as a conventional brake slowing you at the same rate. It does still seem a bit odd though as Magura have been making them for years and they have never been a big seller.

It does still seem a bit odd though as Magura have been making them for years and they have never been a big seller.

HS33’s used to be VERY big sellers, when I was in the bike shop world we’d sell more sets of HS33’s a week than any of the V’s. Not sure how that transfers to road bikes though.

From the launch of the Cervélo P5 and Magura RT8 brakes;

Why Hydraulic?

Any disadvantages over cable rim brakes? In terms of performance, it’s difficult to see a downside. I used these brakes on a P5 at the Cervélo bike launch earlier this week and they are fabulous. They’re brakes… but more so. You get enough well modulated power that you can leave braking that little bit longer and save precious seconds over the opposition.

As for just-in-case braking, well, there’s far less of that. You know you can stop on a sixpence (not sure where I dragged that phrase up from) if you need to so you don’t need to approach corners as tentatively as usual. Sling yourself into the bends at full speed and you can still slow down in time if need be.

“With this brake you can stay faster for a longer time,” said Magura’s Product Manager Stefan Pahl. “You can brake at the last second.”

Why not disc?

•Less weight due to [the fact that there’s no need for] stiffened frames and forks and special hubs with unsychronized forces.
• Better aerodynamics – disc/rotor and calliper create a lot of drag.
• Rim brakes are UCI approved, disc brakes are not.
• Braking power. The biggest friction diameter on a wheel is the rim.
• Easy wheel change.

from road.cc

Magura make a road rim brake for the new P5 and are planning to bring out a version for normal road setups. info here
EDIT: beaten to it.

Rim brakes will allow a certain amount of compatability with the millions of existing frames on the market. They will limit the amount they sell if they go with discs at present because there are few disc frames on the market.

It will be astronomically expensive though, like Di2 so it’ll be a few years before it makes its way on to the cheaper group sets that I can afford.

road cc clearly know next-to-sod-all about disc brakes…

EDIT: beaten to it.

Its not often I manage that with the length of time it takes me to figure out what I’m trying to say 😆

EDIT –

road cc clearly know next-to-sod-all about disc brakes…

But that part is a quote from Magura who do know one or two things about disc brakes…

Rim brakes will allow a certain amount of compatability with the millions of existing frames on the market. They will limit the amount they sell if they go with discs at present because there are few disc frames on the market.

That’s what I was just thinking, spread the ‘cost’ of hydraulic levers over road and CX and the price/ROI might be more paletable.

go on…

HS33’s used to be VERY big sellers, when I was in the bike shop world we’d sell more sets of HS33’s a week than any of the V’s.

I guess that was individuals replacing v brakes on their bikes as they wanted something with more stopping power. V brakes for all there faults do last well and don’t often need replacing due to wearing out so I wouldn’t expect that many people to be buying them. How many bike manufacturers though were buying the Magura’s, that’s the real measure of sales.

ahwiles – Member

road cc clearly know next-to-sod-all about disc brakes…

You do realise that road cc and singletrack are pretty much the same people?

EDIT: To say some of the same people are involved in both sites.

Magura did a road hydraulic brake years ago, they occasionally pop up on ebay and sell for very good money.

For discs on road bikes, one of the problems listed above is the weight penalty associated with asymetric forces – primarily the brake twisting the fork. Would a solution not be to run a pair of 80-100mm discs rather than one larger disc? You would run the piping inside the forks and have the calipers take their fluid from the fork mounts and then plumb the front brake hose from the lever into the stem cap or similar. Using the smaller discs would largely solve the aerodynamic ‘problem’ as the calipers would tuck in behind the forks fairly well.

At the rear you already have asymetric forces due to the drive, so I wouldn’t expect the weight penalty to be an issue there.

All sounds interesting.

You do realise that road cc and singletrack are pretty much the same people?

when they say that disc brakes make changing wheels harder it shows they’ve never really used disc brakes*.

‘undo QR lever – remove wheel’

vs

‘undo QR lever – try to remove wheel – remember that you haven’t flipped the caliper cable thingy – flip the caliper cable thingy – remove wheel’

(*yes, they’re repeating what they were told by ‘the horse’ – but doesn’t say who the horse is)

errrm ahwiles, but if you have a neutral service vehicle with spare wheels during a race what size disks do they carry, what happens if there’s a slight difference in hub dimensions between the neutral cars wheels and the bike the wheels going on so there’s excessive pad rub?

ahwiles – you seen those uberfast puncture wheelchanges on the TDF? they’re going to be more time-consuming, getting disc lined up between pads. at least that would be my guess based on my experience of fitting disced front wheels.

What wwaswas said.

that’s worrying, when they say that disc brakes make changing wheels harder it shows they’ve never really used disc brakes

1-they’re not Road.cc are based in Bath or somewhere like that.
2-I think the point being made there is more to do with racing wheel changes and disc alignment, but I could be wrong.

but that’s only relevant to pro tour riders, i’m sure they’ll find a way.

why not say that discs offer the potential for faster wheel changes?

(no need to faff around with the cable-cam-flipper)

Hydraulic rim brakes equals fancy time trial frames and hidden often tight cable runs that are perfect for an oil filled hose rather than a brake cable.

but that’s only relevant to pro tour riders, i’m sure they’ll find a way.

Until the pro riders start using them, the majority of roadies won’t either.

Yes, and what if the cyclist accidentally pulls the brake on while the wheel’s out (come on we’ve all done it 🙂 )
Plus, if something does need adjusting (or even if it doesn’t), it’s pretty hard to do the ‘magic spanner’ down that low.

1-they’re not Road.cc are based in Bath or somewhere like that.

As I stated in my edit, some of the same people are involved (IIRC) not based in the same office.

the pro’s will use them – they’ll be paid to.

so that we want them.

so that ‘crampano’* can sell them.

(*see what i did there?)

Hydraulic rim brakes equals fancy time trial frames and hidden often tight cable runs that are perfect for an oil filled hose rather than a brake cable.

Will that offset the extra drag from the rotor and caliper though?

hydraulic rim brakes don’t need rotors.

Will that offset the extra drag form the rotor and caliper though?

There’s no rotor – that’s why he mentioned rim brakes.
See the points from Magura above

ahwiles – Member
road cc clearly know next-to-sod-all about disc brakes…

well as they were quoting Cervelo/Magura, maybe it’s them that knows “next-to-sod-all about disc brakes…”, the brakes that you have to fiddle between the calipers and hope that the wheel you’ve just grabbed off neutral service has the same disc spacing as the one on your bike…

but that’s only relevant to pro tour riders

Well they’re the ones likely to be concerned about how long a wheel change takes – if you don’t have support vehicles with spare wheels it’s not really that relevant.

Well they’re the ones likely to be concerned about how long a wheel change takes – if you don’t have support vehicles with spare wheels it’s not really that relevant.

not so. Most races in the UK are 3/4 circuit races and crits where laps out for wheel changes are allowed. Discs would make it take much longer if not impossible to borrow a spectators wheel which happens a lot.

discs will eventually happen on the road though

Until the pro riders start using them, the majority of roadies won’t either.

Wrong, this is one area where the majority will be using them way before the UCI have got round to thinking about it.
This one will be driven by the mass market in much the same way as suspension and disc brakes on MTBs.

Seems a sensible decision to me to make a rim brake version, after all you’re going to the R&D + tooling hassle to stick a master cylinder in the lever so you may as well do a rim brake to make it usable on all current road bikes, it will also likely be the preference for TT bikes (and all pro bikes until the UCI ratifies discs on the road).
The future is definitely discs though, wheel changes won’t be much more hassle and how often is neutral service used anyway? Would be easy enough for them to have a standard size disc and the teams can choose whether or not to go with that and the accept the risk of not using it.

FuzzyWuzzy it’s not just disc size, it’s the .1 mm you have to be perfect laterally with a disk hub to match the fixed pads on the frame when putting a different wheel in.

You coudl get aroudn it by having adjusters on the caliper or reservoir that allows pads to be ‘wound’ in or out to make allowances but it’ll only have a small effect and winding them out woudl reduce brakign efficieincy.

+1

who cares what the pros do…… I’ll be on discs on my ‘best’ roadie as sson as the tech catches up. I’m already disc’d up on the commuter.

theflatboy – Member

ahwiles – you seen those uberfast puncture wheelchanges on the TDF? they’re going to be more time-consuming, getting disc lined up between pads. at least that would be my guess based on my experience of fitting disced front wheels.

Simple solution – Dual-ply road tyres run tubeless.

Most races in the UK are 3/4 circuit races and crits where laps out for wheel changes are allowed.

I think you have some punctuation missing there. Most races might be circuit races and crits. Crits might allow laps out for wheel changes. I don’t think most races allow laps out for wheel changes though.

Wrong, this is one area where the majority will be using them way before the UCI have got round to thinking about it.

Except that most roadies aren’t MTBers who occasionally ride a road bike and want discs because clearly anything else is rubbish. For most roadies there is almost zero advantage to discs.

For most roadies there is almost zero advantage to discs.

For most roadies, there’s almost zero advantage to carbon wheels, aero frames, electronic gears and the latest high tech lycra but you only need to look at the average turn-out at a Sportive to see that the market is there for it and even if the market isn’t there, one can be created with some judicious marketing of the Shiny New Thing.

😉

I’d say the modulation that disk brakes give would be an absolute revalation for most UK road riders on wet roads.

Wet roads, narrow slick tyres, rim brakes, wet rims and cable operated calipers always made me very nervous.