help !! rear x12 axle cube stereo , stuck in frame

right , the maxle is stuck inside my frame , when I try to unscrew ,the cam and quick release detach themselves from the maxle and that part is stuck inside my frame. the little red bolt inside the quick release has snapped so not sure if that’s causing the problem, any ideas ?

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I’m a bit confused, is it a Maxle axle or X-12 axle? they are different. Are you sure someone hasn’t been buggering about with it?, i.e. putting a Maxle axle into a X-12 design frame. X-12 is just a simple screw in DT Swiss axle on my Cube Stereo, Maxle (on my Bro-in-laws bike) is a slightly different design, a sort of similar screw in axle affair, but with a more complicated camming device. Have you bought it 2nd hand off classifieds/ebay or was it yours from new?

it was brand new , this years cube stereo team, it has a cam device with quick release this screws into an aluminum tube, which constantly unscrews itself from so the aluminum tube is still stuck in the frame, grrrr

its an x12 BTW not maxle

no x12 users on here then ?

I have the x12 on my Cube Sting, but I’ve had no problems with mine

If something has broken than back to the shop you bought it from, it may be covered under warranty

http://www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=1&pk=1314

So, am I right in thinking, the QR handle is unscrewing from the shaft of the axle, leaving the axle still screwed into the frame?

The only thing I can see, the red button^ takes a 5mm allan key, maybe try sticking a 5mm allan key in and turning it. I’ve tried it on mine and the red button thing is solid, if yours can be turned with the allan key, then I guess it needs tighening, the whole axle might unscrew from the frame then.

Looks like a DT Swiss handle.

indeed it is: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components/RWS/RWS-X-12.aspx

http://www.dtswiss.com/getdoc/8cd50625-87a9-486f-bd0f-b375d78df5d0/Manual.aspx

http://www.dtswiss.com/getdoc/e67f639b-b05b-4332-b07b-7949755394e1/TechnicalDatasheet.aspx

Tis indeed DT Swiss X-12, which I’m assuming is what the OP Jamesy has, as his/her bike is also a Cube Stereo. No idea if my post above is actually of any help, just trying to help him/her out.

If the red bolt has sheared off & the plastic handle comes off can you use a mole wrench on what’s left underneath?

might have been a 4mm allan key, but I’m sure you’ll be able to work out what fits. :oops:

did you loosen off the drive side before trying to remove the X-12?

ljs1977, there shouldn’t be any requirement to tighten/loosen anything on the driveside (other than the axle shaft itself).
Off the DT Swiss link above
“The RWS X-12 allows tool free wheel swaps on frames using the X-12 standard. Quicker than any other wheelmounting standard!”.

It just screws in like a long bolt into a nut, I don’t really understand how it works, certainly I didn’t trust it for it’s first few rides, kept checking it, but it seems to stay screwed in and tight (used it on big descents in the Pyrenees a few weeks ago).

:oops: I’ve actually re read the post and that the red button thing is broken off, so just what johnny panic says, molegrips or something and buy a new X-12 axle. You don’t have to buy a DT Swiss one, Shimano do them aswell I believe.

I thought On the Stereo you do.

The bolt at the back which holds the back end together and the mech hanger on makes getting the X12 out difficult

The bolt at the back which holds the back end together and the mech hanger on makes getting the X12 out difficult

ljs1977, Not on my bike it doesn’t and it looks exactly like that and it’s always tightened right up, AFAIC that bolt just holds the mech hanger in place and secures that threaded insert in the frame for the X-12 axle to screw into. AFAIC It’s completely unnecessary and not part of the design to unsrew that bolt everytime you want to take the back wheel off. Like it says on the DT website, no tools are required.

Obviously, I’d be interested to know if I am wrong, but besides, having to unscrew the mech hanger everytime you want to take the wheel off just doesn’t sound right to me anyway. I think it would be concidered a poor design, that.

Ok, I stand corrected.

Just thought I would mention that when I loosen this bolt off the X12 comes out really easy and I have never broken the part as mentioned by the OP.

Each to their own. :-)

Maybe a red herring but could the maxle actually be rusted onto the hub? I keep my front maxle greased to prevent this. If it is I believe some serious persuasion is required. Probably loads of post on this if you search.

There is no need to loosen the pinch bolt that holds the hanger & insert on the driveside to remove the X12 axle

I believe that insert has the axle hole off centre so you can adjust the axle slightly to get perfect alignment, once the insert/axle is aligned properly there is no need to undo the pinch bolt at all.

By undoing this pinch bolt you might not have the correct toe/camber that was set at the factory

More info on the X12 system here: Syntace Website

If the red button is broken then you don’t have much to lose, break out the mole grips/stilson and use them on the protruding part of the axle to unscrew it, then buy a new axle, or contact the shop you bought the bike from and see about getting it replaced under warranty

There is no need to loosen the pinch bolt that holds the hanger & insert on the driveside to remove the X12 axle

By undoing this pinch bolt you might not have the correct toe/camber that was set at the factory

Cheers Best check that

By undoing this pinch bolt you might not have the correct toe/camber that was set at the factory

Now, I didn’t realise you could do that, adjust the horizontal and vertical camber of the wheel within the frame. Although I’d already posted that same link as Andy B, I’ve never bothered reading it (just used it when I was buying wheels). I presume that would also adjust the axis path of the brake rotor, rotating thru the caliper.

OP sorry about this hijack.

Right not sure this is correct but DT Swiss says
• For the ?rst time a toe and camber
adjustment of the rear wheel is
possible. For this, the thread insert
in the right dropout is replaced by
an excentrical insert which can then
be set at the factory into the desired
position.

This means you need to swap the insert over to a different one. Syntace sell Concentric – as the Stereo and excentric 0.5mm and 1.0mm

Am I correct?

Not that you would want to!

ljs1977
Depends what Cube Bikes fitted as their standard I suppose, concentric or excentric, but it does suggest that an excentric insert is a sort of aftermarket option. But, like you allude to, I can’t think why you would want to fit excentric and I probably wouldn’t understand their technical blurb.
I still don’t quite ‘get’ how the X-12 works. You’d be quite right in thinking that just screwing a long bolt, hand tight, into a thread, then hammering down big descents, would be a bit dodgy. It seems to work tho, as I’ve said, ridden in the Lakes and big long rough descents in the Pyrenees and not had the axle come loose.
There’s no real camming device that I can see, other than being able to adjust the position of the QR handle once you’ve hand tightened the axle.

‘So, am I right in thinking, the QR handle is unscrewing from the shaft of the axle, leaving the axle still screwed into the frame?’

yes thats right, on your picture where the flared part goes into the axle that part unscrews!!! its actually 2 parts, the thread on this looks like it was only secured with some sort of compound. Turn anti clockwise and the whole quick release and flared section unscrews from the axle, leaving that part in the frame, not a very good design in my eyes.

‘The only thing I can see, the red button^ takes a 5mm allan key, maybe try sticking a 5mm allan key in and turning it. I’ve tried it on mine and the red button thing is solid, if yours can be turned with the allan key, then I guess it needs tighening, the whole axle might unscrew from the frame then. ‘

Word of warning DO NOT attempt to tighten the red button, it may have an allen key head but its a fixed piece of metal and will snap. Mine just snapped when adjusting the quick release in the correct position, but if you turn it with an allen key it will just snap.

I cant even use molgrips to get it out as the whole quick release assembly has unscrewed from the axle.

What ive tried to do is put loctite on the thread of the quick release assembly and screwed this part back into the axle that is stuck and im just waiting for it to set, so will report back later.

Cheers for your help lads

Jamesy

Can you undo the bolt which holds the mech hanger completely, remove the mech and hanger and push the insert out then grip the insert?

just a thought?

Word of warning DO NOT attempt to tighten the red button, it may have an allen key head but its a fixed piece of metal and will snap. Mine just snapped when adjusting the quick release in the correct position, but if you turn it with an allen key it will just snap.

I used to have the QR version of these and made just this mistake. sheared it right off with very litle force.

Good luck with the loctite.

Can the pinch bolt be undone to enable the skewer/axle to be tapped out to the driveside along with the threaded insert attatched? I wouldnt go mole-gripping anything just yet.

ljs1977 yes that,will be the next step I think, but a post above mentions it effects the toe and camber set up at the factory Is this correct ?

I’d probably go down the route ljs1977 and Martinxyz are saying. However, I’d also probably try phoning/emailing the UK importer, Cube Bikes, DT Swiss and/or Syntace, beforehand. Just to see if they can give advice.
However, from what you are saying, if the flared/bevelled bit is unscrewing, then the only bit holding the axle in the frame is presumably the threaded insert on the drive side, it would appear. Loosening the pinch bolt on the drive side and tapping out from the other side, sounds very possible. Good Luck with it.
As far as whether the threaded insert is concentric or excentric, hopefully that will be obvious when you tap it out, look at it, and then that can be dealt with. The fact is, your options are limited.
I’m not sure whether the axle could be tapped with a reverse thread and unscrewed, it could be hollow, but that is an alternative option.

Try what you are suggesting first, the loctite.

If you have to remove the insert, just draw a line across it and the frame so you can put it back in the same place.

ljs1977 yes that,will be the next step I think, but a post above mentions it effects the toe and camber set up at the factory Is this correct ?

The fact is we don’t know – sorry, but the post from Syntace above suggests that it is the change of the insert which makes the difference not the placement of the original.

Good luck – feed back to us please

red loctite did the trick :)

now looking at a replacement rear axle , ive noticed xtr do one but the screw in side looks different, confused, anyone confirm ?