I was really trying to say that lots of business loans are secured on Directors guarantees (=house)

I don’t want ”I told you so” moments raybanwomble. I get enough of those every time my 4 year old chooses to go downhill on her scooter without keeping her hands on the handlebars.

I still hope there is a way this horrible mess can be undone.

I was really trying to say that lots of business loans are secured on Directors guarantees (=house)

I get that,  but companies in multiple millions of debt, with no assets to speak of.. a couple of houses and a few bentleys isn’t going to cover the debt on a company by company basis of the money stops flowing.

There’s still a massive black hole. Money is like grease or oil in a machine, if it dries up the entire machine has a catastrophic failure.

It might be a wheel bearing meaning you have to buy a new wheel.

but the machine in our case is the UK economy. The health system. Social security. The property market. Industry. Pensions.

And I can almost hear foreign investors pulling a face as if they are sucking on a slice of lemon.

It’s unheard of that this happens:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/unions-join-business-leaders-to-demand-urgency-in-brexit-talks

“Decisions will be needed in June and October to finalise the withdrawal agreement and the transitional arrangement

Cabinet members were told by David Davis in the morning that the government would try to provide more details of its plans when its long-awaited Brexit white paper is published on Monday 9 July

Nice to see the government will try to give some clarity after first round of decisions need to be made… possibly why the statement implies 23 different industries are impacted…

basically what is on the table as offered by the EU is what we are left with…

Not just UK interests who think hard Brexit is stupid

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/25/foreign-businesses-tell-uk-solve-brexit-issue-or-risk-100bn-in-trade

Why aren’t the TUC tearing Jeremy Torybn a new arsehole?

Jezza Corbyn is just like the rest of them, self serving and loathsome.

He was never fully behind the Remain campaign and IMO has always been hostile towards the EU. His shameful support for the Tory right wing Brexiteers anti EU stance is from someone that should be challenging the Tory extreme right wing all the way.

And the combined incompetence of our two main political parties may have achieved the previously unthinkable…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/unions-join-business-leaders-to-demand-urgency-in-brexit-talks

The unions and CBU making joint statements? Its almost like living in Germany

oh wait….

@binners – bindun:

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>PJM1974
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It’s unheard of that this happens:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/unions-join-business-leaders-to-demand-urgency-in-brexit-talks
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Why aren’t the TUC tearing Jeremy Torybn a new arsehole?

Because trade unions are as corrupt as politicians.

A quick look for a petition to sign to urge Torybn to oppose brexit produced this.

I think it’s positive.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/campaign-to-stop-brexit-by-momentum-grassroots-piles-pressure-on-corbyn-over-second-referendum_uk_5b2b920be4b0040e27401b02?guccounter=1

Jezza Corbyn is just like the rest of them, self serving and loathsome.

He’s really not. He might be misguided but he’s not self serving. He doesn’t like the EU because it has rules that limit governments helping out companies or industries. Which is a fair point. The EU is somewhat centre-right in that respect which is why he does not like it and for me, he has a point.

However given the situation it seems the benefits of continued membership outweigh that issue.

it has rules that limit governments helping out companies or industries.

Absolutely nothing compared to what USA will insist on once we’re outside the EU.

The EU is somewhat centre-right in that respect which is why he does not like it and for me, he has a point.

U

S

A

It’s a shame now all the predictable shit is hitting the fan, and affecting the uks employment and investment and lack there of, and companies leaving the U.K. that we haven’t got those big hitters who so supported brexshite on here anymore.

They need to come back and answer for themselves …

But they’re  probably walking around with thier fingers in thier ears mumbling “lalalalalalallaaaa, I cant hear you” and dribbling down thier cardigans (obvz)

How about letting them back on?

@molgrips: I’ve had exactly the same argument with a very left-wing (Cuba loving, Ché posters at 35, the lot) friend who voted leave. Whilst I accept the EU is less than ideal in many respects, the alternatives (USA…) are so much worse. But he, along with about 16m others still went through to cut his nose off to spite his face.

I did point out he can’t be that left wing as his house (which he owned at the time) was once a council house, and was only his thanks to its previous occupiers taking advantage of a particularly divisive policy that the left wing idol Thatcher enacted. It seems those on the extreme left can pick and choose their philosophies just as much as those on the right. I guess some animals are more equal than others…

What I want to see, once all the shit truly hits the fan, is the lying shits responsible, brought to task for there actions. If we leave the UN as well, we can waterboard and torture the ****.

Bike bouy.

There’s plenty of big shitters on this website.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=317145&start=3000&sid=aba0f7635389f876eaab80104e989b9a

Their opinions are eye opening.

We don’t need to worry everything will be fine apparently.

I ask them what they want specifically and never get an answer.

One way that this could and should be sorted is for the businesses who fund the Tory’s and the unions that fund labour to tell their respective party leaders to stop ****ing about and get real, otherwise the plug gets pulled.

Neither have had much of an issue doing that in that past when it comes to serving their own interests. We’ve now hit a somewhat unique situation where both the unions and business’s interests coincide to serve the best interests of the country, in the face of an absurdly self-harming policy by both the government and opposition*

When you’ve got the likes of John Redwood and John McDonnell in broad agreement on a policy you know you really are up shit creek

* The name ‘opposition’ is used figuratively in this instance and is not meant to denote any actual opposing taking place

Debate on this topic was destroyed when those self righteous types who voted Remain didn`t get their own way – they spat their dummies out and instantly declared anyone with a different opinion or view was thick, racist etc.

Debating with people like that is pointless.

Hence why others like myself visit this topic occasionally – see if its still dominated by the same people with the narrow minded view on it – and move on.

Keep moving..

You are right about the limited view.

Have the Brexiters announced this lovely weather we are having is part of the Brexit Dividend?

Debate on this topic was destroyed when those self righteous types who voted Remain didn`t get their own way – they spat their dummies out and instantly declared anyone with a different opinion or view was thick, racist etc.

Of course nobody pointed out flaws in logic, impossible solutions and genuine racism though.

You are free to explain how you think we will get out of this hole. Digby Jones was regailing us with tales about how an EU free UK would regain it’s Mojo and be able to compete and expand because we got out Mojo back. Yes MOJO!!

Debating with people like that is pointless.

Hence why others like myself visit this topic occasionally – see if its still dominated by the same people with the narrow minded view on it – and move on.

Promise we won’t call you racist or thick, just please give us some benefits of the great British brexit

Ok, we will settle for just one instance where we won’t be worse off.

He won’t.

He’ll turn up in another couple of pages to have a gloat/moan at remainers for not getting behind Brexit/calling leavers stupid/racist…..

Has the people making millions out of Brexit been discussed yet, invest 900,000k in leave campaign, hedge a load of shares for when the markets tumble make millions.

Carole Cadwalladr had a jowly man explaining it all on her Twitter feed. If her claims were false surely someone would be suing her.

Promise we won’t call you racist or thick, just please give us some benefits of the great British brexit

The benefits to me are the same as the reasons that Corbyn wants out and as highlighted by molgrips a few posts ago. The EU gets in the way of the socialist agenda.  That would be my reason for leaving but it is not worth the mess and decades of impact to many people to get there.

I am a remainer but If we were not already in the EU I wouldn’t be voting to join.

The only reaction from every leave voter I’ve heard, when confronted with the escalating mountain of unanimous evidence that its going to be hugely damaging to all of us is:

“I wish they’d just get on with it!”

Not thick then? No, definitely not!

When faced with the question that I can either…

a) Punch you in the face really really hard

b) Not punch you in the face really really hard

I presume you’ll go for option a…. and for gods sake can you get on with it?!

see if its still dominated by the same people with the narrow minded view on it

Well to be honest, now it’s more like calling out the shit standard of government, regardless of remain or leave.

But there were many attempts to discuss the issue properly.  We kept asking for constructive arguments in favour of leave, but nothing was offered beyond soundbites.  So yes, we did get a bit sceptical.

I can see benefits of being able to have government invest in industries – I’ve been in favour of that for years, and I think the EU prevents it.  There are strict rules on state aid, aren’t there?  This would be worth discussing, but we only have vague stuff about sovereignty which, as far as I’m concerned, was never an issue.

So please join in.

“I wish they’d just get on with it!”

And what the **** is “IT”?

“There’s plenty of big shitters on this website.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=317145&start=3000&sid=aba0f7635389f876eaab80104e989b9a

Their opinions are eye opening.”

Here too https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=205

“I wish they’d just get on with it!”

The thing is, any attempt to educate people who think this way about the timescales and disruption required is countered with … “project fear mk2”. And, of course… before we start… we need to decide what “it” is… but, just don’t ask for any form of democratic oversight or mandate for “it”, as that would be seen as “stalling”…

The thing is, any attempt to educate people who think this way about the timescales and disruption required is countered with … “project fear mk2”. And, of course… before we start… we need to decide what “it” is…

agreed

its why a 2nd referendum would probably still be for leave, its all about heart not head, theres stlill no plan for brexit other than, ‘hope that the EU take pity on us at the last minute’

I can see benefits of being able to have government invest in industries – I’ve been in favour of that for years, and I think the EU prevents it.

It does nothing of the sort Molls. The Tory right aren’t the only ones guilty of spending decades peddling anti-EU lies. Corbyn and the labour left have been equally as guilty of pushing their own agenda, with the same somewhat difficult relationship with the truth as Boris Johnsons.

What EU rules prevent is the kind of government subsidised dumping of steel by the Chinese government we’re presently seeing,. It categorically does not prevent government investment in industry, or state ownership.

Like I said: when Iain Duncan Smith and Dianne Abbott are singing from the same hymn sheet we need to be very very worried

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>mooman
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Debate on this topic was destroyed when those self righteous types who voted Remain didn`t get their own way – they spat their dummies out and instantly declared anyone with a different opinion or view was thick, racist etc.

Debating with people like that is pointless.

Hence why others like myself visit this topic occasionally – see if its still dominated by the same people with the narrow minded view on it – and move on.

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Well, come on then, regale us with your wisdom. What is it that you hope to achieve by leaving the EU, how will it benefit the British society as a whole, and why can’t it be achieved within the framework of our (once) influential EU membership? Obviously we’ll need some evidence to support any claims that are forthcoming, but then an intelligent chap like yourself wouldn’t struggle to support his arguments with facts, would he?

As mooman has been unable to, Ill give a benefit of Brexit:

watching the Tories tear into each other as May looks on, utterly helpless:

oh & another resignation…….

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/96352/welsh-tory-leader-andrew-rt-davies-stuns

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/boris-johnson-given-cold-shoulder-by-fed-up-cabinet-colleagues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-44593215

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/26/business-secretary-greg-clark-warned-stoking-project-fear-mark/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-cabinet-brexit-tory-michael-gove-defence-spending-nhs-conservative-a8418761.html

The fact we don’t have a government, when we arguably need it most, is cold comfort.

Unfortunately we don’t have an opposition either

 I can see benefits of being able to have government invest in industries – I’ve been in favour of that for years, and I think the EU prevents it.  There are strict rules on state aid, aren’t there?  This would be worth discussing, but we only have vague stuff about sovereignty which, as far as I’m concerned, was never an issue.

Going to have to pull you up there Molgrips.

The EU’s stance on state aid would not prevent anyone from re-nationalising industries. I think the problem here is when industries in the UK, an example being the steel mill at Redcar could have been helped with state aid, the torys have pedaled the myth that “the EU’s state aid rules prevent it.”

The Tory’s have time and again blamed the EU for their own actions, which funnily enough has led us to where we are today with Brexit. Does anyone think that there would be strict state aid rules with the likes of Germany and France being in the union? Would the banks have received those bailouts in the last financial crisis? Would Alstom,which was saved from bankruptcy in 2003 by the French Government happened? Also, the UK would have to triple the amount it spends on state aid to match the proportion of GDP which Germany spends on aid.

The EU has also never had a policy on privatisation. Now thats not to say that the EU is not a capitalist entity, part of its remit is to create a market, something that was influenced by the UK of all countries. But the EU is pushing policies that open the door to private providers and from 2023, all contracts to run rail services should be open to tender by public and private operators. However, in true EU style, there are exceptions, when authorities can prove the line is not “fit for competition”.

So what we should do is look at the two “reluctant” leavers here. Both may have voted remain, but both can see a prize to be had by leaving. May wants out of ECHR, you can’t be in the EU without it, Corbyn wants a socialist utopia, which has been proven you can have whilst being in the EU.

Those on the left of Labour who voted to leave who were labouring under this myth, have given the right what it wants.

So tell, me which version of Britain offered by both leaders is really going to win out?