Do game developers want PC gaming to die off?

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Do game developers want PC gaming to die off?

26 posts & 15 voices | Started 6 months ago by D0NK | Latest reply from flyingmonkeycorps

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D0NK - Member

I've been searching minimum specs for some recent games and getting quite a few people saying "crap port from console version" and that you need supercomputers to run a distinctly average (in a "pushing the hardware limits" way) 360/ps3 game. So are game developers saving time and money by not optimising for PC and expecting consumers to continually upgrade OR are they not really interested in PC versions and only do the basic to get the title onto PCs?

and lets not get into the whole push the game out in time for christmas then patch it up to actually get it running sometime later topic.....for now

Posted 6 months ago #
Torminalis - Member

Might it be because PC games are pretty easy to pirate and console games require a much more determined thief, therefore the rewards for console game dev are that much higher?

Not saying that is the answer, just a thought.

Posted 6 months ago #
Drac - Moderator

It's no harder for consoles to be pirated than PC titles but yes they port games from consoles too much now rather the other way around. Not sure you need a high spec machine to run them, BF3 runs ok on mine and it's an old Wolfdale but the graphics card does give it a small boost.

Posted 6 months ago #
al2000 - Member

Torminalis - that's part of it. Couple that with PC's being a pain to develop for (differences between cards, driver issues etc) and it's just not cost effective.

Most developers will have a PC versions of their games running, but solely to use as a development platform. Going from that to a retail version is where the work is.

Posted 6 months ago #
Torminalis - Member

It's no harder for consoles to be pirated than PC titles

Do you not need to get your xbox/ps3 chipped in order to be able to play copied games?

Posted 6 months ago #
pedalhead - Member

PC game sales are a drop in the ocean compared to console games these days. As a long-time PC gamer, it's a sad state of affairs in one sense...we tend to get stuck/shafted with console ports. But, we also benefit from the production values that a huge budget due to console sales allows, albeit not always in terms of optimization for the platform. I'll try & enjoy it while it lasts...I'm not convinced there'll be much PC gaming around in 10 years.

Posted 6 months ago #
catflees - Member

I worked in games shops and I believe buying habits have changed. I used to be a die hard PC games player, I had consoles but the PC was my gaming choice. The last time I built a specific PC for gaming was 2005, I upgraded it in 2007 and have not really bothered with PC's as a gaming platform since. Likewise most of my friends who would have been pc games players are now playing on consoles more frequently. The gap between what a PC can do and what consoles can do (in terms of gaming) is smaller, properly supported online gaming on consoles and hard drives for example. My friends who still work in that area all mention the recession too, consoles are far cheaper to buy. PC games started needed activation codes too, ruining the trade in Market, so it was harder for retailers to stock pre-owned titles. I dont want to suggest a PC VS consoles gaming debate, I'm just suggesting that developers support the most popular platforms, PC gaming is less popular but PC technology filters through to consoles so it will never die off completely.

Posted 6 months ago #
Drac - Moderator

Do you not need to get your xbox/ps3 chipped in order to be able to play copied games?

Easy to get done in many a high street,

Posted 6 months ago #
D0NK - Member

The gap between what a PC can do and what consoles can do (in terms of gaming) is smalle
but ps3/xbox is what 2006/7 hardware, wasn't bleeding edge at the time either was it? Any reasonably priced PC from the past couple of years should have much better hardware. I know console games can be optimised to the nth degree but surely PC could be fettled a bit.

Does sound like PCs days are numbered just wish sony/MS would start offering mouse/keyboard support. Don't fancy FPS on joypads.

but otherwise catflees that sounds sense

Posted 6 months ago #
Mrs Toast - Member

Might it be because PC games are pretty easy to pirate and console games require a much more determined thief, therefore the rewards for console game dev are that much higher?

That's pretty much it - piracy is so rife on the PC a lot of publishers have pretty much disregarded it, the rest come up with increasingly annoying DRM that only annoys geniune customers and the dedicated pirates get around within a day of launch anyway.

The problem with the PC ports is that for some titles they're normally a last minute thing - the console versions always take priority (normally with the 360 as a the lead platform). There are exceptions though, I think Rocksteady did good PC versions of their Batman games, and a lot of the FPS studios put in a bit more effort for the PC. audience.

Plus PC development is a bit of a nightmare, because you have to make sure it works with a variety of specs, different graphics cards, etc, and the top end changes fairly swiftly. I remember back in my QA days starting to test the PC SKU of the title, and it didn't work properly on any of our machines, because we (publisher QA) had Nvidia cards and the developers had been working exclusively with ATI ones. :/

Posted 6 months ago #
Saccades - Member

It's a shame if it dies off though - most console games are racing, football, shooter/action type.

Look for something like CIV/settlers and unless you go back to the PS1 with CIV2 it's really dumbed down stuff with brighter graphics nowadays, if at all. I like strategy games but on the ps3 there is virtually nothing except Valkyeria Chronicles (excellent and needs a follow up) and red alert (which isn't turn based).

Without blockbuster PC strategy games there will be virtually non on consoles - except every 5 years or so as the industry re-visits the format in some shoddy fashion.

Posted 6 months ago #
Saccades - Member

As an aside the ps3 was leading edge technology wasn't it? The cell processor fella with blueray that developers are only just getting to grips with nowadays.

No need to chip the PS3 either - the private source code key was cracked last year or so, just include that on the copied software.

Although I'm not aware of any copied games floating about as of yet.

Posted 6 months ago #
Mrs Toast - Member

As an aside the ps3 was leading edge technology wasn't it? The cell processor fella with blueray that developers are only just getting to grips with nowadays.

Not really any more or less powerful than the 360, just different in how it operates. Console jailbreaking normally gets fixed fairly swiftly by Sony and Microsoft because they can just update the firmware with an update. You can avoid the update, but that means you can't use online functionality - another advantage of console development. I know my brother got ban hammered off Xbox Live and had to buy a new console.

Given Sony's dealing with security measures over the past year, not sure if they've sorted the PS3 issue yet, I know they were taking that kid to court over it. Can't remember what the outcome was!

Posted 6 months ago #
catflees - Member

What I ment by the gap between consoles and PC's getting smaller was in what they can do other than play games. Look at the Megadrive, it played cartridges, the playstation could then play audio CD's and allow you to save easier, Xbox DVD and Ethernet ports... If the next Xbox does allow supported use of MS Office then there's even less reason to own a PC. Sure a console on release will not be as powerful as a gaming PC, but aside from gaming the console will be able to do more things than it's predecessor.

I would also look at PC buying trends, I remember mid 1990s we got our first PC. Then most windows 95 machines would run the latest titles no problem. No people mostly buy laptops, which due to thief portability can't fit a big power hungry graphics card and offer good ventilation. So were as 15 years ago most new computer purchases at the start of the home computer revolution would play a game, many computer purchases now will not.

I don't think either format is more difficult to hack. With PC games however you can download the entire game illegally and save it to your HDD. I know one such scrote who has had Skyrim for weeks.

Posted 6 months ago #
lowey - Member

sony/MS would start offering mouse/keyboard support. Don't fancy FPS on joypads.

This is the only reason I still game on the PC. FPS is much more satisfying with keyboard / mouse.

Never mind... as long as they keep updating TF2 I'll be happy.

Posted 6 months ago #
catflees - Member

You can obtain copied PS3 and XBOX games quite easily. Save the data from copied discs to a separate storage device to the one you typically use and don't take it online. It's awful and is affecting the trade, another reason why rumours the next generation of consoles will be download only from a store front not unlike iTunes no discs to copy.

Posted 6 months ago #
seosamh77 - Member

This is the only reason I still game on the PC. FPS is much more satisfying with keyboard / mouse.

Never mind... as long as they keep updating TF2 I'll be happy.
you can set up the ps3 to use a mouse and a controller of some sort.

Posted 6 months ago #
scuzz - Member

While I agree this may be the case with the cash cows, there is still a big market for more specialist games. Consider ARMAII - a fantastic FPS MilSim with a world of enemies who are indifferent to you and will happily kill each other while you watch as a cow (in contrast to CoD where stealth means nothing on non-stealth levels: point the crosshair at the enemy, they magically know you're there...) Played with top end hardware, we're talking an experience that still cannot be matched by console: Top end graphics driving three 2048x1600 monitors with TrackIR head tracking for view, massive choice for control methods, 128+ players in a game online... Fantastic advances that the average CoD consoler won't have a clue exist.

As long as people still buy these games that consoles simply cannot handle (PS3 uses a G71 GFX chip from nVidia - that's from ~2005 in the 7900GT/GTX, superseeded in a matter of months for PCs (granted the CPU is a different beast entirely)), PC gaming will not die.

Posted 6 months ago #
GrahamS - Member

Generally speaking, PC games are much more hardware intensive than console games.

You're sitting a lot closer to the screen and often running higher resolutions than a telly. You are seeing way more detail so they need more anti-aliasing, more polygons and better textures.

Posted 6 months ago #
anthonyb - Member

MrsToast are you a developer? Seemed to remember you mentioned you were in the industry. Just wondered how many othe games devs were STW regulars.

Sorry for the hijack...

Posted 6 months ago #
Saccades - Member

Console jailbreaking normally gets fixed fairly swiftly by Sony and Microsoft because they can just update the firmware with an update. You can avoid the update, but that means you can't use online functionality - another advantage of console development. I know my brother got ban hammered off Xbox Live and had to buy a new console.

Yes, it normally does - until someone finds out the private key you have used for every ps3 out there for telling sony if the software being used is genuine or not. So Sony have the choice of giving all systems a new key, which will show all the the current software as pirate and mean that it won't work on the PS3 or keep using the existing key and hope people don't copy too many games.

I guess there might be the third option of intoducing a new key for new software only but if that was the case why haven't sony done that already.

As for download only games - it's a pain in the arse and I won't be getting new games if that comes in. At the moment I have 1 download of stuff I have paid for left until I have to pay for it again - which is taking the mickey, one bust HD, one refurbed PS3 leaving me with the ability to d/l >£150 once... nat games for life. Whereas with a physical disc I have to have a calamity (house fire) to lose all the games I have.

Posted 6 months ago #
D0NK - Member

As for download only games - it's a pain in the arse and I won't be getting new games if that comes in
Pirates will always be ahead of the console manufacturers, or at most a week or two behind, every DRM and copy protection system they bring out soon gets cracked, meantime they alienate more people who actually pay for stuff. Steam doesn't seem too bad (IIRC - not used it much) download to as many PCs as you want but you must be logged in with your live account. Bit of a bugger for 2nd hand trade, I used to buy a lot of psx ps2 stuff but atleast steam seems to have old games pretty cheap.

It's like the DVD vs avi, insert dvd wait for all the antipiracy ads then trailers then maybe get to the disc menu. Double click avi "ooh look the films on".

Not saying scrap DRM but don't piss off legit users.

Posted 6 months ago #
Mrs Toast - Member

MrsToast are you a developer? Seemed to remember you mentioned you were in the industry. Just wondered how many othe games devs were STW regulars.

A games designer, for me sins. Seem to recall there were some Eurocom chaps on here in the Goldeneye thread (lucky bastards, living near the Peak District!)

It is a shame the way the industry is going - games cost so much to develop now that a lot of the big publishers are really risk-averse. Hence why the new Syndicate game is going to be a FPS, rather than a strategy game. Although admittedly my Syndicate strategy was to use the Persuadatron to collect people and lure them onto train tracks.

Still a lot of good unusual indie games for PC and Xbox Live though.

Posted 6 months ago #
theflatboy - Member

i used to play games on consoles years back, have been on playstations 2 and 3 since they came out. one thing that always put me off about pc gaming was the obsolescence that inevitably comes around. at least with my ps3 i know it will be able to play every ps3 game that comes out.

i can imagine that this element also frustrates sale of PC games.

Posted 6 months ago #
Drac - Moderator

Persuadatron to collect people and lure them onto train tracks.

Not just me then.

Posted 6 months ago #
flyingmonkeycorps - Member

Persuadatron to collect people and lure them onto train tracks.
Not just me then.

And me!

Posted 6 months ago #

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