Cracked Magura Thor « Singletrack Forum

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Cracked Magura Thor

35 posts & 14 voices | Started 8 months ago by ijs445ra | Latest reply from ijs445ra

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ijs445ra - Member

When splitting a bike a few weeks back i found the below crack on the lower of my 2010 Thors.

They have had just over one years use.

Supplying shop have been pretty good and have been spoken to Magura UK etc. Magura UK who have now come back and said they are unlikely to be a warranty claim as it looks likely the damage has occured due to over tightening.

Does this sound reasonable/possible?

Shop/Magura are yet to examine fork they have only viewed photos below and may still be fixed under warranty. I just want to check if overtightening is a possible reason for failure.

Posted 8 months ago #
Stoner - Member

Im aware of another case where it's happened and Magura UK f****** my mate over, so I wouldnt hold my breath. And he wont buy Magura again either.

Posted 8 months ago #
ir_bandito - Member

To be honest, with my experience of Magura UK, I'd say they're probably right.
As an engineer, looking those pics, a crack could come from sideways loading or impact. as the paint isn't chipped, it must be over-loaded.

But that's only looking at the pics. It *could* be a manufacturing defect so its not strong enough at the normal axle pre-load. Only way of working that out would be to have a metalurgist look at the grain of the casting.

Posted 8 months ago #
ir_bandito - Member

with my experience of Magura UK

To confirm, that's my experience so far. My Thors have just been sent back after a full service and rebuild with all new internals left a sticking FCR. I'm interested to see what they tell me...

Posted 8 months ago #
chakaping - Member

Looks like a Maxle lower. Quite difficult to overtighten a Maxle isn't it?

Posted 8 months ago #
andyl - Member

Should be designed so the maxle fails before the lug. tut tut

Posted 8 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

Thanks both, not what i wanted to hear obviously.

I never recall tightening the maxel up particularly tight, rarely have the wheel off to be honest.

I guess i need to send them off and see what they say upon inspection and keep my fingers crossed.

Posted 8 months ago #
Rickos - Member

Is that crack on the outside of the leg or next to the hub? I'm assuming the outside based on the overtightening thing.

Posted 8 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

Yes it is a maxel and it is on the outside.

A friend, far more knowledgable than i, has pointed out that there is a steel insert in the casting that should stop expansion and possible cracking.

I will clean them up and send them off and see what they say. Good to know if anyone had encountered the same and if overtightening was a possible valid reason.

Posted 8 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

roof rack mount? I know RS used to void warranties years ago on forks that had been held in drop-out roof rack mounts as the dropouts were never designed to take twisting forces of a bike flapping either side.

Posted 8 months ago #
toys19 - Member

It's most likely a fatigue crack. How much is a new lowers? If you want to be a pain in the arse and get either some new forks or your money back here is what I would do.

1) Letter before action.
Write to the shop and claim manufacturing/design defect leading to early failure and therefore not "fit for purpose" under SOGA. Ask for refund or replacement. 14 days to respond before you take further action which will include an engineers report that they will be liable for in the event of a win.

2) After 14 days you can either bite the bullet and employ an engineer probs be 1-2k for a destructive evaluation of the fork, and then make a small claim. Or back down and spend your hard earned on a new fork..

Posted 8 months ago #
ir_bandito - Member

As a comparison, I replaced ALL the internals of my Thors, ie everything EXCEPT the lowers for £400. (Yep, that stung)
So you ought to be able to get new lowers for £100 or so I guess.

but its certianly worth pushing for a compromise on their part too, even if it ends up just being trade price.

Posted 8 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

Toys - I do not know price of repair yet but they have said if they are to be repaired it will be the end of October before they can do it.

Forks are still to be sent off and examined in the metal be Magura so may still be covered by warranty...fingers crossed.

I have already bought the new bike so thankfully not without a bike at present.

Not worth getting them tested but i think worth pursuing further at this time.

EDIT: irbandito £400 yikes! i got them brand new for £399

Posted 8 months ago #
ir_bandito - Member

I bought them second hand for £200.
turns out the previous owner had used rubbish oil which had degraded all the seals etc causign excessive wear on the insides. It was either new internals, or another pair of forks (and I didn't want to risk another pair of secondhand ones)

Posted 8 months ago #
zbonty - Member

Does'nt look good. Can't imagine particularly over-tightening them but will consider it next time(MK1 version here, bought as soon as they came out)

Regarding Magura UK, do they exist as they used to? They used to service in house did'nt they? I enquired about a service and they were to go back to Eurobike or something. Anyone have any recent experience with them or am i making it up?

Posted 8 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

Eurobike in Derby is the address i have been given for returning them.

Posted 8 months ago #
toys19 - Member

Not worth getting them tested but i think worth pursuing further at this time

Agree but might be worth the sabre rattle of part 1). Tell them an engineer mate who does failure analysis expert witnessing has unofficially told you that looks like a fatigue crack - no evidence of an overload failure, just design or manufacturing defect. TBH if it was overloaded to cause failure by user I would argue that in itself is a design defect.

Posted 8 months ago #
ir_bandito - Member

Eurobike is where Mike Jenner works, he's the official Magura service guy.

http://www.racemechanic.co.uk/

Posted 8 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

of course Toys19 you're assuming that no one from Magura uk is capable of reading a forum?

Posted 8 months ago #
LoCo - Member

and they haven't heard it all before.

Posted 8 months ago #
toys19 - Member

Ahh well that means he doesn't have any claim then..

Posted 8 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

that means he doesn't have any claim then..

No, just that telling porkies might not be the best approach?

Posted 8 months ago #
toys19 - Member

Ahh you assume I was just making it up?
Tell them an engineer mate who does failure analysis expert witnessing has unofficially told you that looks like a fatigue crack - no evidence of an overload failure, just design or manufacturing defect
Nope, this is my opinion as an engineer who does failure analysis and expert witnessing. OK I have only seen a crappy pic but there is one very obvious facet of that picture that tells me it is fatigue and unlikely to be fast fracture. No porkies here, it is an unofficial opinion but I'd put money on that being fatigue. Like I said if the OP wanted to to he could pursue it. Depends on how done over he feels.

EDIT - there is a porkie, me and the OP are not mates..

Posted 8 months ago #
LoCo - Member

Not having a dig at you the OP or Magura, Toys.

I'm not going to comment on the damage, but would send in for a warranty inspection all the same.

Engineers are a cynical bunch at the best of times

Posted 8 months ago #
toys19 - Member

waswas,loco. its fine, I was just defending the little guy...

Engineers are a cynical bunch at the best of times

I've been in the conference room with groups of lawyers all arguing the toss, then they ask the engineers to make their reports. A crack like that comes up and you can see the oppositions engineer looking at his lawyers and planning his exit..

Posted 8 months ago #
b r - Member

tbh I had a good experience of Eurobike/Mike J, I sent my forks for a service and he warranty replaced the lowers due to a crack (he thinks I may have used too long a bolt for my calipers).

I'd call him first to discuss.

Posted 8 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

A wee update for anyone interested.

Forks were delivered to Eurobike/Magura UK yesterday and i got a call from Mike the same day.

Mike explained that for the 2 year warranty to be valid the forks need to be seviced every 12months. I checked and this is clearly stated in the manual which obviously, as a man, has remained sealed in the bag it arrived in oops.

However, Mike kindly offered that if i pay for a serivce he will replace the lowers, and fit a new FCR internal, which for my serial number of fork there is a known issue with so they wont have to go back should that fail in future.

I can not say fairer than that, top service, and a nice chap to chat to.

Posted 7 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

12 month service by whom? By them with a receipt to prove it? And how does not changing the oil/cleaning the seals cause the dropout to crack?

A reasonable enough outcome (if theyre fitting the lowers rather than just posting some to you they are servicing them as far as labour goes) but I'd take issue with some of his argument.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

The warranty can be on whatever terms they like. A manufactureres/importers warranty is discretionary. It doesnt change the retailers obligations under the sale of goods act though.

Posted 7 months ago #
ChunkyMTB - Member

not a bad outcome in the end though

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

sounds a pretty fair result to me.

Posted 7 months ago #
joolsburger - Member

That's a good deal in anyone's book. I'm amazed more lowers dont snap, had the lowers off my Maguras last weekend for a lube and am still in awe of how something that light takes the punishment it does.

Posted 7 months ago #
crashtestmonkey - Member

stoner, it was a genuine question about servicing. I service my forks myself, at least as often as required, but how would I prove that for a warranty claim if they stipulated service intervals? Do they stipulate "professional"? Would make Fox forks prohibitive to own if they had to go to Mojo every time they needed a lower/wiper service.

Posted 7 months ago #
Stoner - Member

I imagine they specify the acceptability of the servicer (i.e. authorised Magura service shop) Maybe even the servicer themselves (Magura UK only)

Posted 7 months ago #
ijs445ra - Member

They will be fitting the lowers and doing the service etc.

Obviously a standard oil and seal service durinbg the previous 12months would not have stopped them cracking where they did and i am still sceptical about the overtightening explanation, but given that they are 18 month sold and i had not met really met the warranty conditions i was happy to accept the offer.

The alternative if i was not wanting to accept the offer was to take it up with Magura Fatherland and i doubt they would have been so reasonable having not fully met the warranty criteria.

EDIT: Will double check manual tonight and see who it says should service them.

Posted 7 months ago #