DBair debuts at EUROBIKE!

Posted by Cane Creek Cycling Components on Wednesday, August 31, 2011

I have a feeling this is going to be a bit good

I have already decided to by one. It will be utterly wasted on a hack like me.

I’m tempted, but the trouble with air, well, is the air bit 🙁

Is it my eyes or will the remote reservoir make a hell of a mess of the air can the first time it is compressed?

I’m tempted, but the trouble with air, well, is the air bit

This isn’t just any old air, this is Ohlins air

Is it my eyes or will the remote reservoir make a hell of a mess of the air can the first time it is compressed?

I think they would have thought of that somehow

It may well be Ohlins air, but unless they have managed to alter physics it will still suffer the same issues all air shocks do.

Whether it suffers as badly, or loses performance as noticably is the key to me.

It will never be as good as a coil shock, whether the compromise of performance Vs weight is worth it, we shall see 🙂

I have a Ti coil on my CCDB, and the air bit will need to be the very best air can in the world to be half as good.

Take the weight penalty; keep the coil.

You can’t compare this to the CCBD coil, RP23 etc more like.

I bet it will blow them away, Ohlins know more about suspension than Fox and RS put together.

Not everyone wants a 3/4 kg shock (with a steel spring), or to pay shite loads for a Ti coil spring.

Anyone know why Ohlins market them through Cane Creek? Why did they not just jump into the mountain bike market on their own, with their reputation in the motorcycle and car industries i wouldn’t have thought they would have needed to bother going through a reputable push bike company.

scotsman – Member

Anyone know why Ohlins market them through Cane Creek?

because then everyone would be asking why an ohlins pushbike shock costs so much more than than the equivalent quality ohlins motorbike shock.

Oh, and to be slightly less moany, i think distribution/warranty/links with bike shops would be much easier via a recognised big brand rather than ohlins themselves getting to know a whole new market ‘alone’.

Isn’t it the twin tube technology they license from Ohlins?

You are kidding on price? I bought an offroad shock for my KTM race bike last year cost me over a grand.
I don’t get your distrubution/warranty comment either, they would be imported through mountain bike component recognised importer and distrubuted to bike shops anyway so any warranty claims………… you get where i’m going with this?

[Quote]I bet it will blow them away, Ohlins know more about suspension than Fox and RS put together.[/quote]

Step away from the cool aid 😉

If air was comparable to coil in any capacity, then we would see it in every high end application possible. But its not, so we don’t.

I have no doubt it should be better than the likes of the RP23, and comparable to the BOS unit, but its never going to be as good as a coil, that’s simple physics.

Read my post again, I didn’t say it was.

Thing is, the numbers that are being thrown about don’t suggest a huge weight reduction- though they’re probably not all that reliable. So it’ll have to be pretty damn good to justify choosing it over a Push’d RP23. BOS have just taken their best shot with the VIP’R and don’t seem to have convinced many people…

As for Ohlins… I don’t think it’d work to brand it Ohlins, frankly for motorbike use they’re already far too overdependant on their name and the reputation of the top end kit, most people outside of dirt racing buy them for the logo and the gold can on the reservoir but I don’t see that the name’s strong enough to transfer out to pushbikes. (I use Ohlins kit in my bike, and frankly it’s overpriced and uncompetitive, wish I’d gone to Penske and ktech)

Flow – according to your post it’s going to blow away the CCDB coil – hence my comments!

Sadly even the best air shocks still don’t really hold a candle to even a reasonably basic Van RC.

I think it’s easier for them to just licence the tech to Cane Creek rather than build a shock for a relatively small market to them.

I think people should try it for themselves before they comment on whether it’s better worse or indifferent to the coil sprung version.

I also think some of the arguments are mixing up issues. The nature of the spring, whether it is coil or air, is only one part of the equation. The damping is the other. I think it’s entirely possible that an air sprung CCDB could be considerably better than a coil Van RC because the damping is better and the unit overall more tuneable. But until I’ve ridden one I won’t know for sure.

It’s Also worth mentioning that the reports on the Vivid air for example, from the journalists at Dirt, indicate that they can’t tell the difference between the coil vivid and the air vivid.

Since changing from a rp23 to a “basic”fox van RC, I cannot ever see myself going back to an air shock.
The difference is massive.

Wrecker I don’t doubt that is true. Indeed my own experience would confirm that. But I don’t think you can extrapolate your argument to all air and all coil shocks based on that one specific experience.

I think there is a very good chance that the shift from your Van to an air CCDB would be an equally big jump in performance.

Maybe Geetee, but I wouldnt see the point in changing to a ccdb now. The van feels really good, I think they must have improved them for 2012, have you tried the new vans?. I was thinking of a Ti spring but have decided not to bother, the bike climbs far better than it ever did with the rp23 even with the additional weight. I’m not that much of a tinkerer so all of the bells and whistles on the ccdb would be wasted on me.
I do think that there’s only so much they can do with air, I don’t believe that the ccdb air will be a patch on the coil version but that’s just an opinion and the proof will be in the pudding.

Wrecker I think that’s an eminently sensible response. I personally have had the RP23, DHX 5 in both stock and pushed tune, the Van RC and the CCDB which I still have and is by far my favourite. Maybe the air will be as good maybe it won’t but like you, given how happy I am with the CCDB coil there’s little point buying the air on the chance that it would be lighter and as good.
The adjusters on the CCDB however do come in very handy. It may be only a few clicks either way on the low speed compression and rebound that I ever change (I don’t ever bed to touch the high speed ) but it does make a difference and means the bike always feels perfectly tuned.

scotsman – Member

You are kidding on price? I bought an offroad shock for my KTM race bike last year cost me over a grand.

I stand corrected then. (not all that often you hear that on here these days is it? 😆 ) Usually I hear MX riders disbelief at the cost of dh bikes and components compared to top flight mx stuff. Anyone know how fox bike shocks/forks compares in price to mx ones?

I don’t get your distrubution/warranty comment either, they would be imported through mountain bike component recognised importer and distrubuted to bike shops anyway so any warranty claims………… you get where i’m going with this?

As far as i can see, ‘crossover’ brands for parts are still relatively few and far between and mostly at the expensive end. Fox shox and renthal. (Although my brother in law has a manitou tractor/hydraulic lfting arm thingy, and shimano do fishing reels of course)

Kit is different: fox, alpinestars, thor, poc, sidi, tld, o’neill all sell to ‘other’ markets.

I suppose calling your shock a cane creek is just one step further up from selling to an established bike distributor as opposed to distibuting it all by yourself. Spesh, giant, scott and trek all distribute themselves in the UK because they are big and recognised enough, many big brands here are also owned by the distributors too (dmr, kinesis, ragley, nukeproof, identiti, halo etc). Perhaps very small volume high cost sales in an ‘unproven’ market (ie new shock with new brand for significantly more money than the competition) felt too risky to doo without the support of a more recognised brand name? Plus, if they had turned out to be rubbish we would be remembering cane creek’s rubbish not Ohlins’. I wouldn’t be suprised to see Ohlins ‘reclaim’ the shock if it continues to be popular and reliable.

The performance gap between air and coil is definatley narrowing the past two years with the Vivid air, Bos, and new RP23 (this is very good from reports I’ve had)
The main issue from my point of view is the extra maintainance the air shocks need, with longer travel items for freeride and DH applications weight could be seen as less of a concern, we’ve also yet to see a large switch of WC riders from coil to air.
One thing that is almost certain is that the Cane creek isn’t going to be cheap and will probably be the benchmark for long travel air shock, interesting times 😀

I really like my Push tuned Float as a super-light 90% solution, although it’s not as good as the Bos VIP’r I demo’d. I prefer both to the standard DHX4 Coil I had… I nearly Pushed it but bought a CCDB which is better than all the above options… but not by enough to justify it’s weight unless I am doing silly stuff; so most of the time it sits in a bag as for much of my riding the Float is good enough (and 250g vs 1000g it’s noticeable on the climbs).

I would like to try a Vivid Air or CCDB-Air… but at 500-600g I can’t help wondering if it will be markedly better than a 250g Float/VIP’r?

I guess the question is for double the weight of the Float will it close some or all of the performance gap to a coil?

I’d like to find out… email me when I can test it for you

My coil CCDB weighs 630g with a Ti spring – so only about a 1lb heavier than a rp23 and far less difference between a dhx air or vivid.

Plus I hope they have improved from the proto CCDB air which was not much lighter than a coil with Ti and the action was no where near as good.

Big up to Antonio over at Bikechecker.com for doing this after I e-mailed him. As a science student I don’t like doing anything without graphs and evidence! Brilliant! Now, BOS or a CCDB?

Be interesting to ‘if’ it is as good as the coil. Weight is very similar in shorter eye to eye lengths.

And

The Proto’s on that Orange had really bad stiction and weren’t a patch on the coil. But doubt cane creek/ohlins would sell a turkey

Bollocks wrong thread!

From the shocks I have had my Van R was great going down but not so good at going up, it was too soggy. The RP3 was ok for general riding and good for going up but reached its limits when going down. My current Monarch+ is great all round I love the compression switch that you don’t get on coils. I think its great that you can change how the shock feels with a simple 3 position compression switch its just not available on coil shocks.

I would love to try the CCDB, in either spring, but I just don’t see how it can be set-up well for climbing and for descending with the same settings.

Ed Oxley has one on his Titus and posted a brief review on his video blog. Sounds like it should be good.

Ache, actually that’s available on one of the Maz ROCO coil shocks I believe.

Fox RC4 450g + Nukeproof Ti spring 235g
685g total
CCDB Air 530g
difference of 155g or 0.34lbs
£500 to drop 155g, dunno about that one.

Well its about time somebody did it. Its been around on air shocks for years. No reason why they cant do it on coil.

An average ohlins price is at least a grand for say a ttx shock,magnesium
Bodied ones are 10 x that !,they ain’t shit…so are we saying cane creek is a moody co run by Ohlins ?,I don’t think so ..

Rik – Member

But doubt cane creek/ohlins would sell a turkey

Maybe not a turkey but Ohlins make good money selling ordinary shocks for extraordinary prices… (not the top end stuff but the street-bike kit like my old 46HRCL). If they had the brand-power to do it in pushbikes I don’t think they’d hesitate for a second to knock out a shock that performs like a Van but costs as much as a CCDB.

IMO 😉

Fox RC4 450g + Nukeproof Ti spring 235g
685g total
CCDB Air 530g
difference of 155g or 0.34lbs
£500 to drop 155g, dunno about that one

But that assumes you already have the RC4 and Ti spring. Think of it like this – The Dhx RC4 with steel spring is circa £480 + £139 for the Nuke proof Ti spring
£619 total

CCDB Air £495
difference of £124 in favour of the Cane Creek.

Will be an option on El Guapos as soon as they can get us some over.

You’re right enough mildred, I have the RC4/Ti spring set-up.
How much does a used RC4/Ti go for these days?

TF Tuned now have them in stock at £475…