Some silly sausage has started a petition for cycling to be banned on the dual carriageway section on the A24 between Dorking and Leatherhead.

I know quite a few people on here are local to it and use both the newly resurfaced piece of road in question, and also the parallel cycle lanes.

Details on the advert heavy D&L Advertiser website http://m.surreymirror.co.uk/ban-cyclists-says-dorking-driving-instructor/story-29623969-detail/story.html

There are reasonable cycle paths either side of the road but they are not great. They are poorly maintained in places with poorly thought out give way lines and a narrow sections northbound. It would not take too much effort on the councils part to make them attractive enough so that the majority of cyclists favour the paths instead of the dual carriageway and the miserable car and taxi drivers stop moaning.

Ultimately the petition is ridiculous, but hopefully it causes enough frothing in the local roadie community that people put pressure on the council to improve the cycle paths to make them the preferred option and reduce conflict and hopefully improve perceived safety for both cyclists and drivers.

Am not going to go so far as to say I support the idea, but I’ve never understood why people choose to use the road over the cycle lane along there. The southern side is in good condition I think, and while there are a few places where you have to stop for driveways et c, that’s surely better than competing with the traffic on the road itself.

If we’re talking about a ban on cars and/or bikes, let’s talk about the Box Hill climb..I reckon it could do with cycling and driving only being permitted at certain, different times at weekends

Its a very dangerous piece of road. Not the daftest petition I have ever seen especially if there is a cycle lane. Used to annoy me in London when bus lane had cyclists in it who where not using the cycle lane provided

I have driven along there and wondered why the cyclists aren’t using the cycle lane, cant be pleasant on that stretch of road.

Signed.

Not really, but seems sensible.

Can we set up a counter petition to fix the cycle lanes?

I have driven along there and wondered why the cyclists aren’t using the cycle lane, cant be pleasant on that stretch of road.

If cyclists aren’t using a provided cycle lane, preferring to mix it up with traffic, then I’d assume there was some issue with the cycle lane. Given the choice between poorly maintained cycle lanes with confusing priorities and crossing driveways etc. I’d prefer the road when making progress on a skinny tyre road bike.

Can anyone who drives that stretch of road comment on why it’s so dangerous for cyclists to be on it?

I use the cycle lane between Dorking and the bottom of box reasonably often and sometimes use the road next to it, it’s not imho a particularly dangerous piece of road. Its got reasonably good sight lines and iirc the max speed is 50.
I am not sure why there should be a ban on cycling up Box hill at the same time cars are using it. Iirc it’s a 20mph speed limit with speed bumps and a scenic area, not your normal cut through.

Absolutely not signed.

Having looked at the road on street view I personally would use the cycle path, but you are setting a dangerous precedent by banning cycling on a road as there is a cycle path there.

Let people make their own decisions.

I have driven along there and wondered why the cyclists aren’t using the cycle lane, cant be pleasant on that stretch of road.

I can’t speak for that particular section of road/path, but in my experience 95% of cycle paths are not fit for purpose. They might be fine for a tourist ambling along at 10mph on their touring bike, but 20+mph on a road bike is a different kettle of fish entirely. More often than not cycle paths are gravelly, bumpy, covered in leaves/twigs/glass etc etc. And that’s before we get to shared use paths and having to dodge pedestrians and dogs every 50 yards.

I should add I drive that road quite often too, it’s not a dangerous bit of road imho

but in my experience 95% of cycle paths are not fit for purpose.

Being generous there.

And that’s before we get to shared use paths and having to dodge pedestrians and dogs every 50 yards.

… and the game of russian roulette you play with driveways. Then there’s being stuck for ages trying to cross busy roundabouts and junctions, with no priority and usually very poor visibility, that you’d sail across if on the road.

That cycle lane is fine on my titanium tripster with 40c tyres running tubeless to reduce the risk of punctures, otherwise it is not fit for purpose in many sections.

Sort that out and there wouldn’t be many cyclists on that road.

@mrblobby ime in London people chose not to use the cycle lane as they want to go faster (or think the cycle lane is too full of “amateur” cyclists). My daughter who commutes daily in London by bike says “super hero” cyclists barging past in the cycle lanes are the most dangerous part of the ride. FWIW it was the same when she lived in Copenhagen.

Used to annoy me in London when bus lane had cyclists in it who where not using the cycle lane provided

This?

If cyclists aren’t using a provided cycle lane, preferring to mix it up with traffic, then I’d assume there was some issue with the cycle lane

Any cycle lane will get used if it’s a good design, and a well maintained facility.

The Embankment cycle lane in London is great in places, and a pain in the bum in others so sometimes I use the road. Bad points are lanes not swept at all, speed bumps, joggers, lemming like pedestrians, poor traffic light phasing, and wandering cyclists at busy times.

If the A24 is becoming a safety problem how about 30mph average speed cameras along there? Now there’s an idea for a petition!

@mrblobby ime in London people chose not to use the cycle lane as they want to go faster

Is an interesting one that. Most want to get to where they are going in good time. If there’s a slow and a fast option, I suspect most would take the fast option. If it’s riskier then some will think it worth the risk, others won’t. I’d be the same for car drivers if they were faced with similar choices.

Other reason I’ll often use roads over cycle lanes is because the rules are clear to all, you and drivers know who has right of way, who has priority etc. I think it’s often safer to be part of the traffic rather than being in conflict with it at junctions and roundabouts (which is what happens when you use cycle lanes in the UK.)

I cycle into London on one of the designated cycle super highway as it was largely fit for purpose, most people cycling my route seem to use it. I tend not to use minor cycle paths as they are not. Superhero cyclists, nodders, Boris bikers there are all sorts and standards, idiots will be idiots. Bit confused as your daughter seems to be saying the aplha types don’t use cycle paths but are also barging past her on the cycle paths, maybe they are very fat

I use the cycle lane in both directions at least one a week, both on mtb and 23c tyred road bike for commuting in to London. I’ve never had a puncture on it thankfully.

Going Northbound it is probably one of the best cycle lanes in the UK between Denbie’s and Givons Grove (with the exception of the bit around Burford Bridge /Westhumble). It could do with being swept a bit more access a bit of work doing to reduce puddles when wet.

Southbound is good between Givons Grove Ave Mickleham, but then it is a concrete slabs between Mickleham and Burford which have settled causing a poor surface.

Heading south I usually find it easier to use the northbound track.

mrblobby, you’ve got that bang on. I want my commute done as quickly as possible, it’s not a pleasure ride.

And that’s before we get to shared use paths and having to dodge pedestrians and dogs every 50 yards.

is there not an irony in that cyclists complain about having to dodge other slower moving, less predictable path users, and arguing that they should therefore ride on the road, where they become the slower moving, less predictable road users that others have to dodge?

Is it actually possible for a council to ban cyclists from an A-road?

In what way is a cyclist riding on the road less predictable than idiot car drivers? If pedestrians on shared use paths moved like cyclists do on road, nobody would have an issue – the problem invariably is either peds across the whole width of the path ignoring you, or dogs out of control, neither of which is in any way similar to how cyclists ride on the road. So the only irony is in the Alanis Morissette sense.

Is it actually possible for a council to ban cyclists from an A-road?

A470 out of Cardiff has no cycling signs on it (not a problem, as there’s a quieter parallel road all the cyclists use anyway), so presumably the answer is yes.

Is it actually possible for a council to ban cyclists from an A-road?

Yes.

I always choose the cycle path on that bit of road.

Do we think there will be a time where it is compulsory to use a cycle path if there is one, rather than a road?
Are there other countries where this is the case? I was bibbed by a car in Belgium last year for not using the cycle path (which was a similar quality to he one on the A24….

Can we set up a counter petition to fix the cycle lanes?

This would be a more sensible petition.

and iirc the max speed is 50.

You’re right but you try finding someone who actually sticks to that limit on that stretch of road.

I haven’t done so this year but I used to ride that stretch regularly also and would never ride on the road section. Not because I don’t think we should be there or because there was a reasonable alternative (actually over the winter I used it before I switched to Box Hill alternative that stretch would be so underwater you needed a canoe not a bike) but rather because a lot of drivers saw you as a legitimate target if you were on the road and not the cycle path.

The number of death passes I got scared the shit out of me and no amount of ‘we shall overcome’ would get me back on that stretch of road.

I drive that stretch quite often, and I find that observance of speed limits is actually pretty good….but I wouldn’t want to mix it on a dual carriageway with cars and lorries doing 50mph

I drive that stretch quite often, and I find that observance of speed limits is actually pretty good….but I wouldn’t want to mix it on a dual carriageway with cars and lorries doing 50mph

You’d think it’d actually be safer though than smaller busy A roads where the speeds are just as high but the roads are single carriageway and narrower so likely poorer visibility and less room to give cyclists a wide berth.

I live not that far from there half the week, and find, espescially at weekends, the number of MAMILs with poor bike handling skills and lack of awareness of others pretty appalling. And it isn’t the club peletons, but fat blokes on new bikes. As a roadie when I was young, I really wonder if there should be more encouragement for people to learn some road position and awareness skills for road-riding, rather than carrying the “I am in my safe tin box” car mentality onto their bikes. And learn to pedal and change gears on hills FFS…

Leaving aside the quality of the road surface that cycle path is pretty much a benchmark for cycle paths in Blighty. I’m not sure it would be that easy legally to randomly ban certain classes of vehicle from specific roads, rather than a specific class or category of road.

Is it actually possible for a council to ban cyclists from an A-road?“

“A470 out of Cardiff has no cycling signs on it (not a problem, as there’s a quieter parallel road all the cyclists use anyway), so presumably the answer is yes.”

The A470 is a trunk road managed by either the South Wales (or North Wales, depending on which section) Trunk Road Agency.

This is similar to how Highways England manage a number of motorways and major A roads in England.

They have different powers to councils for how a ‘Trunk Road’ can be managed and what can be restricted from traveling on it.

This section of the A24 is not a ‘trunk road’. I’m not aware of any non Highways England managed roads in England where a local council has been able to dictate that cycles are not permitted on it.

I tend to use the cycle path, but the only place I got a puncture last winter was on that path, and it happened twice. There are a number of junctions across it where cars tend not to give way. The surface isn’t perfect, and there’s a pretty sketchy narrow bit by the Burford Bridge roundabout.

The road is fine, I don’t get the comments about it being hyper dangerous. Considering the thousands of cyclists who have to cross it to get to Box Hill (which starts 200 yards off this road) I’m not really aware of any major incidents.

Usual small minded stupidity IMO.

Plenty of roads in the Netherlands ban cyclists – but then the cycle lane provided is almost always better.

From this article

Why do cyclist fear being banned from the road

hate to say it, but i kinda agree with the guy with the petition (although maybe not his methods)

The A8 (i think, goes past the Airport) into Edinburgh is similar, paths either side but there are always cyclists who prefer to use the road. It’s one of the busiest roads in the area, especially during rush hour. There seem to be so many roads that are in no way designed to accommodate cyclists but it seems that some people will put their own lives in danger to prove a point

Surely a petition to upgrade the cycle paths would be prudent here.

Is it actually possible for a council to ban cyclists from an A-road?

I don’t believe it is.

Are there other countries where this is the case? I was bibbed by a car in Belgium last year for not using the cycle path (which was a similar quality to he one on the A24….

Yes, pretty sure some are in both Belgium and Holland. Certainly when we rode the Tour of Flanders the marshals were keeping people on the tracks beside the busy roads.

Personally, I don’t have a problem with this in principle for roads above, say 50mph, *IF* it’s combined with tight specifications for the standard of cycleway (which would include the cycleway sharing priority with the road that it follows – ie if the main road has priority over a side road so does the cycleway) and an obligation on highway/local authority for them to be in place and maintained. We’re a long way from that in the UK at the moment though.

Chubstr

The cyclepaths next to the A8 are awful. That’s why cyclists go on the road.

Its my local road and it always annoys me when people cycle on the dual carriageway. The cycle path is wide and smooth tarmac and that section has been 70mph for 50 years and few people stick to the new 50mph limit.

Around here (Mole Valley) cyclists are winding up car drivers enormously and this is just another issue they are creating.

that section has been 70mph for 50 years and few people stick to the new 50mph limit.

So, the safety issue is not the cyclists but drivers breaking the speed limit?

The cycle path is…. smooth tarmac

Nah, it’s potholed and otherwise unmaintained.

As somebody said above, it’s fine if you’re on 30+ tyres and a robust bike, I wouldn’t want to take a skinny road machine down it*

* well, anywhere but that’s not the point.