Zwift Team Time Trial, Thursday

Just back to the office, going to sit it out tonight. Naff day and just fancy feet up and a beer when I get in.

Started my warmup. I think I've been able to sort out the discord app and I've found a microphone.

Great ride! Sadly lost retrorick during a pass... Phil did drop back but it didn’t work out. Hopefully won’t discourage from another go, they are the hardest part to get right as a group & the rest of us have had a fair bit of practice now! That’s actually one of my favourite routes as the hill is not too long and there’s a nice few seconds to recover on the down.

Managed to hang on with enough encouraging !, thanks all.

Sorry we lost retrorick, he was right with me as we approached that group, not sure whether he got sucked into it or lost power. Big groups rock, we need to get to 8.

There is a 'push to talk' setting on Discord which I find quite useful. I'm currently wearing two sets of headphones - bone conduction for music and inner ear for Discord, plus a sweat headband and glasses - must look a right mess, but still loving it.

Currently 34th out of 112 by the looks of it, nice work.

Ant

Thanks all. Enjoyed that again this week. Just need to sort out the warm up really. Seems to take 5 mins to get into it. I know you can spin on the pairing screen but doesn’t feel the same as a decent warm up.

We actually got faster up the climb each time we did it which I think was down to working out how to do the climb as a team.

The worst bit was the climb coming out of the town or whatever it is before the rollers. That was only gentle but couldn’t get a good rhythm on it. Changed my cassette on my turbo and have slightly different ratios so might just be me getting used to it.

Struggle with the pacing of these races, I shot off the front a few times on the hills but I wasn't putting in any more effort than I was on the flats.

Also, I'm watching the distance between the riders and the gap is 2 meters one second, then 10 meters the next...I'm not sure if it's a zwift bug or something but the gap doesn't seem to grow gradually like it does usually

I saw you lot on my phone app this evening and started up zwift on the pc to see what you were up to but you weren't visible on my screen

What's with the "pass" comments ? Do you have to smash past to make sure the other team doesn't get on your wheels or something ?

Oh, and...

Struggle with the pacing of these races, I shot off the front a few times on the hills but I wasn’t putting in any more effort than I was on the flats.

might you be way lighter then the others ?

I had an 'enjoyable/hard' race.
During the 1st lap I was trying to pace myself and recover a bit when in the group.
Right at the end of the first lap when we caught/passed the team in red i had a connection drop out so I was riding an empty course on my own for around 15 seconds. When everyone re appeared i was 15 seconds down ☹️.
I had a stitch at that point anyway and I doubt could of kept up for the rest of the race!
I think I did ok for the 2nd solo lap.
The 3rd lap had a few more racers around so I did my best not to draft them.

You are pretty light compared to everyone else I think tpbiker!

Scaredypants - when you pass the other team is supposed to ease off but it doesn’t seem to happen much so you have to make sure you are a group and then accelerate hard together to get past as a group. Normally means a hard 10-20 second effort to get past and then you need a bit of a gap out the front.

might you be way lighter then the others ?

Right at the end of the first lap when we caught/passed the team in red i had a connection drop out so I was riding an empty course on my own for around 15 seconds.

Have you not noticed dropping people before on the hills when racing

Yep, but I'm usually having to dig deep to do it. I've ridden the ttt with you guys before and the climbs seemed far easier this time out, whilst the flat bits didn't. Just seemed a bit odd.

The entry is in for next week. 7:40pm on Thursday.

3 laps of Volcano Flat Reverse, 37km in total. This is a new course for this event, but I suspect it will be a fast one.

Sign up to category A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/1092711

I'll be back with nudges and eventually a start delay later in the week.

bump. still noone signed up for this Thursday...

I am up for it (just registered). Should be easy to keep the group together, however if we're doing well then there'll be lots of overtakes which might spell trouble!!

I'm working a late shift in Thursday so I'm unable to join in. I should be able to join in a week on Thursday tho 🤪

I thought I'd signed up, sorry- anyway, I have now

Hopefully I'll be back this week, will see how tomorrow goes.

I am in as well. No hills this week really!

Ready to roll, signed up.

I might be broken but I'm in.

Ok, a couple of questions....in the off chance I get to join...

Discord - are you using this through your phones on the app or some other way? I play music through my headphones whilst riding, does using Discord prevent me doing that?

Bike - which bike is allowed? I'm guessing road bikes for drafting, what about Tron bikes?

Warm up - Do you all warm up prior to getting on the start line, then stop and wait the 6 minutes or so, then go when the race starts?

Just for info, I've not fallen out of love with it as such, but the problem in my world is that unless a rider like me is 100% on my game, it's a killer. I don't just mean tough but crazy impossible tough. I know you guys will tow someone back but the issue is, being right at FTP from the first few mins just to hold the wheel means even if you tow back, it's still too much to then hold it.
That, added to the fact that my 100% has been 85-90% of the best me, it's just not fair on either of us.

OopN seems to be better than me on the hilly bits so I think he'll do a much better job than me.

I'll hopefully be back next week. Did I mention I'd bought a new bike 😄.
I'll be happy to make up the numbers try hard and be dropped out the group at some point en route.
For discord I used a mic plugged into the pc. I think the mistake i made with it last week was when the call for radio silence/mute was called for I disconnected my link rather than muting so I was unable to communicate my zwift dropout problem and tell everyone my problem. Not that it was a problem. 👍

@scardypants @oppnorth - Hope you do decide to join us for the TTT this week.

The way we approach the race is very much as a team, with the emphasis on helping each other and finishing together - we really don't care about where we finish, so if we need to back off the pace to hold everyone together we absolutely will.

A couple of pointers if you do decide to join in;

Don't worry about taking a turn on the front, especially early on. If you feel compelled to, then leave it until you've got a sense of how you're managing your energy.

If possible don't just sit at the back - it's better to be one or two positions forward until you get used to pacing in the bunch. If you're at the back and a slight gap opens you can drop off really quickly.

If you do drop off, the sooner you get back on the easier it will be. A short sharp effort will close a 2/3m gap, but once it gets beyond 5m it requires a monumental effort

If a gap does open up that you can't close don't give up! We'll slow at the front and someone will drop back to give you a wheel to follow and close the gap.

We normally catch and pass slower teams, and when we do it's critical we bunch up and pass through them quickly and together.

If you can get some headphones with a mic, then Discord really helps. Mute the mic or the heavy breathing swamps the channel, but do shout out if you need help, a change of pace, or if you just want to hurl a little abuse!!!

Hopefully see you Thursday

Wasn't there recent talk about a B squad?

Discord – are you using this through your phones on the app or some other way? I play music through my headphones whilst riding, does using Discord prevent me doing that?

Bike – which bike is allowed? I’m guessing road bikes for drafting, what about Tron bikes?

Warm up – Do you all warm up prior to getting on the start line, then stop and wait the 6 minutes or so, then go when the race starts?

Any non-TT bike will do. I always ride the Tron! (so if you pick that, anything except yellow wheels!!)

Yeah do your warm up separately before. You can continue warming up on the start line UNTIL the timer gets to zero and the first team goes off. Then you can either wait, or go into the Pairing menu on Zwift and carry on your warmup there (your on-screen rider doesn't move when in this mode)

With discord I don’t know how it works with music. I am going to try and run it through the pc this week as my speaker wasn’t working last week.

Any bike is allowed (apart from tt). Tron is perfectly suited to the course this week. Having said that you don’t get the visual cue of the rider sitting up in the draft on the tron bike so I usually go for the fastest bike I have for the course. When I am tired I find the visual cue useful when hanging onto the back and minimise the work and thinking that I need to do.

Warm up - you can warm up in the pens as long as you are on the pairing screen otherwise you will move forward. If you use that option it is wise to stop a minute before we are due to set of so you don’t forget to and follow forward.

weeksy
Full Member
Wasn’t there recent talk about a B squad?

Posted 4 minutes ago

I talked about setting one up for the C/D riders but didn't cos I'm lazy, if there's more interest then I'll do it.

I'd play in a C/D squad matey.

Think I'm c/d squad also.

@weeksy

Wasn’t there recent talk about a B squad?

You don't need a B squad - you're plenty strong enough for riding with us, but even if you weren't then riding with us would help you get stronger. I get you don't like hills and that's a difficulty that needs to be overcome, but this week you'd be absolutely fine

I was thinking about tomorrow Phil but I've been off the bike with man flu for 6 days, I did 30 mins earlier which wasn't pretty or fast, but arguably if any course would allow me to stick and have some use then yes, you're right.

I don't massively dislike hills, I just dislike them at 3.2w/kg

Not sure if I have a set of headphones that I can mute, I'll need to see. I don't want you all to hear how much I'm dying when I do eventually ride with you.

So if I use the app, what discord channel am I looking for?

I know from my experience that it's very much type 3 fun when you're on the limit from the word go, well over the limit when getting dropped and hugely over when being "encouraged" back on.
From my extensive experience of being dropped a few times during the TTT this has been roughly 3.5 / 4.5 / 5.5 wkg which is obviously not sustainable when I've only got an FTP of approx 2.9wkg!

I think there is a point at which a second category is needed and this varies depending on the course but I think anyone riding at roughly my level or slower would enjoy a slightly more evenly balanced team.

@oopnorth you mute Discord from the app, not on the headphones (well I do anyway!)
It's actually better NOT to mute IMO, just make sure that "push to talk" is enabled in the settings, then you just press the button on screen when you want to share some witty bantz 😃

here is the invite link: https://discord.gg/Hy4Cue

Thanks Zilog

#technonumpty

I'm with you Dobski as i think there's hopefully some guys who'd race with us, who are more to C/D as we are to Phil and Dangerbrain, we'd be able to help out rather than just being towed around, which would mean a few of the C/Ders from the Tuesday nights would get to enter potentially. Whether they will, i dunno.

Evening all !

IF there's a definite free space I'd like to have a shot this week

Just read the entire thread 🤪 so I think I'm up on the drill. I see that dischord links from previous weeks tend to time out, so how would I find you on there? (I assume it'll work on PC)? May only have audio and no mic but will see what I can bodge up

Do I have to declare a category or is assigned automatically? Haven't done a race for ages but was a mid-pack B when I did

Right I've joined Discord through the link above, just in case I manage to make it tomorrow. It will be a last minute work decision as it is on a Tuesday, so if you are up to full numbers let me know, don't hold a place on my behalf in case I can't make it.

Am I able to join last minute or do I need to sign up through the link that Savoyad provided well in advance?

Ivan and Weeksy I’d (Andrew Atkinson on Zwift) definitely be up for a crack at the tt but at a level lower than than the current participants. Probably not tomorrow though as I woke up with a sore and stiff left knee this morning. I blame it on that last hill, I’m sure I saw 17% gradient in the corner of my screen at one point.

Am I able to join last minute or do I need to sign up through the link that Savoyad provided well in advance?

Last minute on Zwift. Think your name needs doing on Zwift power sooner though

I really think it would be a shame if we went down the path of splitting into different teams based on ability/level. If you are tempted to ride with a "B-team", please reconsider riding (en masse, all of you!) with the existing team.

The whole event is designed to accommodate mixed ability teams. It really does work so that the "weaker" riders are as much a part of it as the "stronger" ones. And this is true even with quite a spread of ability. The basic format of Max 3 riders from your top category, and up to 5 weaker riders is perfect for a group like us, even more so if - as @weeksy thinks might be the case - there are more riders at the "weaker" end available to make the group bigger.

You don't need to push anything like the watts that the stronger riders push in order to be a real part of the team and get to the finish line. The draft effect is dramatic. Some recent examples:

Here https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=991230 Our average w/kg finishing together after 37 minutes were 3.7 - 3.3 - 3.3 - 3.0 - 2.9

Or here https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1003086 ave w/kg for a blob finishing together in 1:07 were 3.4 - 3.3 - 3.2 - 3.1 and 2.5

If you are in the middle there, you can definitely keep up. But there is space to extend that spread further still.

There is acquired skill involved - e.g. @Phil56 and @dangeourbrain do need to judge what the blob as a whole can sustain, and that 2.5w/kg ride in my second link was @zilog6128 who is really, really good at staying with a fast group (partly because of the practice he gets in the TTT?). Looking at that data, his ride would surely have been easier that day if an additional rider had done, say, 2.8 w/kg. That's an example of where the existing team can be buttressed by riders who are hesitant to join because they see themselves as "too weak". And the spread can continue downwards in w/kg whilst making us faster as well. Sure it is hard - when we get it right, the front go hard and the back, pushing much lower watts, have to go hard to stay with them.

We have tried to cultivate an approach to it which maximises the mixed ability aspects of the format. Some teams sacrifice their weaker riders by dropping them deliberately over the course of the race. We take more satisfaction from trying to get there together. It doesn't always work - people do get dropped, but never (unless they insist) without an effort to get them back and sometimes we struggle, but often that's because of the challenge of the event rather than the ability spread.

This is what I meant when I said we're doing it wrong if there's a move towards fielding a weaker team. There's basically no such thing as not being at the sufficient level. With a group of 8 and some practice we could get a really massive w/kg spread around a flat course (4 w/kg - 2w/kg at least, I think) in a decent time. If you aren't joining in because you are worried about keeping up, please just dive in. If you get dropped, don't be shy about being rescued and then hanging on in there. And if you feel like you tried and it was honestly too hard say so and the format of the event really does mean, if we handle it well, that you can get to the finish without anyone getting any less of a workout overall.

The last ride I did I pulled the plug when I was going out the back at 6wkg! It's not the average, it's the peaks which hurt the slower riders.

Oop north and scaredypants. Just checked and you zwiftpower profiles are both ok in terms of stw tags so just sign up on Zwift and you will be good to go. You are both on discord so just wear your bumble jersey.

This is tomorrow’s course.

https://zwiftinsider.com/wtrl-ttt-76/

I know the faster guys are helping out and riding to the team, but you are fast as a team at the moment. I race with an all C team and you're putting at least 2-3 minutes in to us most weeks.

As a mid pack Cat C I'm reasonably confident I could sit in tomorrow but for the courses over the last couple of weeks, not a chance.

I'm keen if you have space? Not ridden much for a while so no idea how long I will last https://zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=1373150

Also keen to give it a go tomorrow if there’s any spaces.

Is there a maximum number who can ride?

As I'm a late decision, let others take the places and I'll join if there are any left nearer the time.

Max team size is 8, minimum of 3.

Looking forward to this evening and some new faces, I may be very rubbish however as it seems I really am too old for looooong days and Tuesday has broken me.

I'll ride this week if there is space. If not have fun!