Your car breaks down in the outside lane….

I passed the accident spot this morning at around 7am heading south/towards Manchester. The police had put up large screens around the accident area and the motorway was still closed northbound.

The news article says it happened around 3:30am. I doubt there was much traffic at that time so perhaps she thought it would be safe to cross to the hard shoulder and misjudged the speed that the HGV was travelling at?

I don’t know what I would do in a similar situation as panic may set in or I may just make a simple miscalculation or error of judgement.

Either way it’s tragic news and my thoughts are with her family and friends.

Tough Alphabet and well said.

Or conversely the car is the projectile that takes you out when it gets shunted towards you?

That’s why we say 100meters or more away. Its a difficult decison, but if possible leave the hazards on.

I hate to think what will happen when we get all these “smart” motorways with no hard shoulder.

My first car’s engine went bang on the outside lane of the M1, in the 6 lane section just before the M25. Had to coast across with the clutch in and the hazards on, was a bit hairy, but better than the alternative!

Ran out of powersteering/servo brakes just as I coasted to a halt, got out, phoned the AA and wondered if it was acceptable to go back to the car for some fresh grundies.

I drove over a long slim piece of girder (trim from a flatbed lorry I think) which I didn’t see at the time, it was pitch dark,black metal against balck road.

It got flipped up by the wheel, went through the underside of the car, through the fuel tank and buried itself in the rear suspension while the front end of it was still hanging out into the road, roughtly underneath my seat, screaming and scraping along the road surface.

I was in Lane 2, there were 2 sliproads coming on at the point, heavy traffic anyway, lots of cars trying to come on and move right while I was desperately trying to move left. I didn’t even know what had happened at that point, just a massive bang and a shitload of screaming metal.

Made it to the hard shoulder, parked the car as far up it as possible. It was bloody terrifying though and nothing really prepares you for the “what if” moments where you just have to react.

Poor woman – sounds like she got out of the car and tried to run to the hard shoulder or got hit trying to open the passenger door to climb out. 🙁

I hate to think what will happen when we get all these “smart” motorways with no hard shoulder.

Every inch of a smart motorway is supposed to be covered by a camera. In theory, you’d be safer as the gantry would warn other road users until the cops / highway pcsos get to you.

The chance of me staying in a car stationary on the motorway is roughly 0%. I fear that my wife was driving and the car stalled she would not quite have the sense required to get to safety right away.

Stuck in the outside lane I’d bolt out of the door, hop the central reservation and run upstream to warn drivers! If there was a big gap in traffic at any point after getting out of the car I’d leg it to the other side and get up the banking.

If I had the wee boy in the car I’d grab him and scream blue murder at the wife to do exactly as I do and not ask any questions.

I’d hope that if you were in traffic then the cars immediately behind would see you slowing and hopefully slow down as well. If you are the only car around then it might not end so well but if that’s the case then why would you be in lane 3 anyhow (or lane 4 around here)?

I think I’d follow the advice re. 999 if I had kids onboard. On my own, at 3.30am, I might grab the phone and retreat to the hard shoulder before dialling 999.

The car will reduce injuries if you get hit. Police will attend and if it’s smart motorway, warning signs should help.

Having had engines lose power on the motorway, it’s a non-ideal situation to go from the middle or outside lane to the hard shoulder in a hurry, and I don’t like to be in the hard shoulder. Motorways are the one place you don’t put your warning triangle out, just put yourself and the others in the car in the safest place possible.

The above advice from Highways England to stay in the car is surprising. In most circumstances, it is far safer to get out, over the barrier and far enough upstream for oncoming drivers not to wipe you out when they react to your vehicle’s presence.

Have you got evidence from hundreds, or thousands of real incidents over many years and different road layouts to back up your advice? Presumably Highways England do. Unless you planned to be getting out the car, then the car will be more visible than you will. Even if you can quickly get out the car and over the barrier, it will take you a good few seconds to do that during which time you will be at the highest possible risk. Getting out the “wrong” door makes things worse. Crossing the carraigeway exposes you for even longer. Many barriers have nowhere to hide in the middle – even if they do rubberneckers on both sides seem to get sucked into them. Inside a modern car which is designed for crash resistance with your seatbelt on you stand a reasonable prospect of survival, from a rear end shunt as a front seat occupant. Outside the car if you do get hit you’d be incredibly lucky to survive. The time spend getting out could be used for the 999 call that might not only save your life but prevent the unfortunate other driver getting killed or injured too.

In theory, you’d be safer as the gantry would warn other road users until the cops / highway pcsos get to you

Unfortunately it relies on people obeying the signs.

I’ve been driving down a quiet motorway at night when the gantries have shown lane 1 as closed and a limit of 40 on the other lanes. So I moved out into the middle lane and slowed down. A guy came flying up behind, flashing his lights, gesticulating, tailgating, obviously annoyed at my ‘middle lane hogging’, then moved into the (closed) inside lane and floored it to undertake me. Luckily there was nothing there.

Obviously not always applicable, but – if you drive a manual, and do have engine malfunction, you can limp the car to the shoulder using the starter motor. Stick it 1st, off the clutch, and turn the key. The starter motor can move your car far enough to get out of the outside lane.

That said, would not recommend trying to cross 3 lanes of motorway traffic.

bails – Member
I’ve been driving down a quiet motorway at night when the gantries have shown lane 1 as closed and a limit of 40 on the other lanes. So I moved out into the middle lane and slowed down. A guy came flying up behind, flashing his lights, gesticulating, tailgating, obviously annoyed at my ‘middle lane hogging’, then moved into the (closed) inside lane and floored it to undertake me. Luckily there was nothing there.

Had likewise. 4 lanes reduced to 1 at night and signs for miles off instructing to move into the furthest right lane. Loads flying down the inside. Get to the bit actually closed off and I’m in the correct lane, more flying up the inside, slam on brakes and sharp cut in before the cones.

I too have been there, outside lane of the motorway in a car that was going nowhere. Find gap in traffic and run like you’ve never run before to the hard shoulder, behind the barrier, as far from the car as possible. Used the roadside phone as soon as I got there to warn that if they didn’t come and help someone might crash into my car and die. Or garbled words to that effect. Extremely unpleasant. My biggest fear was that I could have caused someone else’s death if it had all gone wrong. The police were there pretty quickly.

You know that thing where you’re always told if there’s a fire alarm in the office leave without stopping to take anything with you? In that situation kind of instinctive. Don’t even think I took the key out of the ignition, no purse, no coat.

Oh but Alison, you should have sat in the car, in direct traffic, and waited for someone to hit you in the hope that your modern car would save your life!

Madness, get out of the car and get to safety! Most people would be capable of running across a gap in the traffic and being almost 100% certain of not being hit, unlike waiting in a car which could well reduce that to 50:50 chance of being hit!

Most people would be capable of running across a gap in the traffic and being almost 100% certain of not being hit, unlike waiting in a car which could well reduce that to 50:50 chance of being hit!

the evidence would suggest your appreciation of the risk is wrong on both counts. First every year people are struck in the UK whilst on live lanes of the motorway so its obviously far from 100% ability of human beings to outrun vehicles. Second, breakdowns in live lanes are relatively common, but only a small fraction (far less than 50%) result in collisions.

Yeah I’ve had something similar on a busy motorway – my front nearside tyre shredded and disappeared down the road. Put my hazards on and a couple of wagon drivers realised what was going on, and hung back and “protected” me while I got across to Lane 1.

Saw a similar thing on the M1. A group of bikes came past me on a wet day. A mile or so further up the road I noticed brake lights on the inside and middle lanes, so I pulled over to the outside to go past. On passing I saw one of the bikers picking himself up in the middle lane.

poly – Member
the evidence would suggest your appreciation of the risk is wrong on both counts. First every year people are struck in the UK whilst on live lanes of the motorway so its obviously far from 100% ability of human beings to outrun vehicles. Second, breakdowns in live lanes are relatively common, but only a small fraction (far less than 50%) result in collisions.

How many instances of someone running across a motorway occur each year vs the number of people who are hit? You have evidence…

Further, would you sit in your car if you broke down in the outside lane? Honestly?

My I was driving my partners car a week or so at and it cut out going up a small rise on the m27 heavy traffic, 40 ish mph, no operational indicators, nothing. Partner in passenger seat hand signals out of window. No one would let us over. Even had people under taking us on the hard shoulder added tried to pull over. People are arseholes. I can see how it is possible to get caught in the central lane. The trouble is people are not prepared to hold up their journey and slow down. They just barrel on.

Based on the BBC story it sounds more like she parked up in the middle of the road and got out to look at the damage.

How many instances of someone running across a motorway occur each year vs the number of people who are hit? You have evidence…

I don’t know how many survive unscathed, and I haven’t done any analysis of these to see why they happened etc, but a quick google search clearly shows people are getting struck on motorways quite often (and given its illegal for peds to walk there I assume most got out of a vehicle):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-36477660
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/pedestrian-dies-after-she-is-struck-by-bus-on-m2-motorway-31461819.html
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/driver-relives-horror-of-colliding-with-pedestrian-on-the-m62-in-west-yorkshire-1-7811929
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3607552/Taxi-passenger-23-struck-killed-passing-bus-climbing-moving-cab-busy-motorway.html
http://stv.tv/news/east-central/312113-pedestrian-killed-after-being-hit-by-vehicle-in-m8-motorway-crash/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30358905
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-32148371
http://stv.tv/news/stirling-central/247127-man-dies-after-being-struck-by-a-van-on-the-m9-near-dunblane/

Further, would you sit in your car if you broke down in the outside lane? Honestly?

Not only would I, but I have, twice. Well the first was actually the slow lane but where there was no hard shoulder and a vertical wall (no barrier) to hide behind on the left. Car was over as far as it would go. Lit up like a christmas tree. Heavy traffic, passing at 50+ mph, and helpfully hooting their horns – just in case I didn’t realise I was a hazard! It took ~15 mins to get help. About 300 vehicles overtook me in that time without hitting me, and actually whilst it was horrible, I don’t think I’d say any were that close to hitting me – but the trucks did shake the whole car. That was nearly 15 years ago.

The second, much more recently, was on the fast lane of an A-road dual carraigeway when I just conked out, I was overtaking a train of trucks at the time and had no way to get left, but had enough power to roll onto the gravel next to the barrier, leaving 1/2 the car on the road. Whilst waiting for help the car restarted and I was able to limp off the carriageway at 10 mph. Probably 25 cars passed me when I was stuck in the fast lane, again without even clipping wing mirrors etc. Both incidents were in the dark, and raining.

It was pitch black and I imagine no Street lighting on that stretch.

What would you do? I’d be terrified. Did she really get out and start surveying the damage or is this media speculation?

At 3.30am what could you see of a person whilst travelling at 50mph+?

RIP and I feel for the truck driver too.

On Valentines day year before last I chased a large Swan off the motorway. Thankfully a coach and a HGV helped me by providing me with a rolling block. It was heading towards the fast lane and I shudder to think what would have happened as NO ONE else slowed in that lane. It’s a bloody fast moving place to be, scarily fast.

The fact of the matter is no one knows what they would do until you are in that situation yourself. A big grown intelligent man might freeze in fear.

Ever driven past cars that have rear ended each other on the motorway? I’ve seen cars sat in the fast lane with people stood around them as rush hour traffic floors it around them. Crackers but people don’t immediately act. They need directing sometimes by someone not involved in that event. In addition what if the lady was coming back from working a late shift?

RIP 🙁

What would you do? I’d be terrified. Did she really get out and start surveying the damage or is this media speculation?

Unless there were cameras, I guess it’s just speculation.

2+2 = 200 by the press wouldn’t be unreasonable to think

I’d stay in the car, ring the Police and do everything possible to get it off the carriageway. Drive it on the starter motor, ignore every horrible mechanical noise going, just get it off the road.

Getting out of the car is bonkers. A car has lights, reflectives and crumple zones. You don’t. Even if someone is driving along texting and barrels into you at 80mph, you’ve got a decent chance – there are no obstacles in front of you to get shunted into, and the mass of your car means that you will be using both your car’s crumple zone and the crumple zones in the car that hits you. On foot, you are 100% gone.

The other factor is that a lot of traffic doesn’t actually travel that quickly – in rush hour it’s about 65mph average and the fact that all the other vehicles are moving around you tends to slow the traffic down to 30-40mph near a breakdown.

On a quiet motorway at night most still travel at somewhere around 70-80mph. There are a few people going considerably quicker but they tend to be paying attention at least.

It is helpful to have highviz stuff and a torch easily accessible from inside the car, may just make the difference.

pretty much the law across Europe.

If it was me and I had to leave the car, I’d definitely run in the SAME direction of the traffic in that lane – the car is your barrier then, at least a little bit.

a barrier to what exactly? as other have said, stupid idea.

a few years ago the i was drivng my mates clapped out 205 back from italy with three of us in it, two bikes and loads of luggage. the motor was full to the brim. the car was on it’s last legs and had randomly died on us whilst in italy. i’m guessing some off-roading down to remote beaches and rally style driving didn’t help matters . but the car was a heap.

we had been driving for about 7 hours and just before Munich whilst doing about 150kmh in the outside lane the engine died…. it took a few seconds to comprehend what had happened. swung the car over towards the hardshoulder where, thankfully, there was the beginning of an exit so we had a little more room separating us from the main Autobahn. to sit there in the dark with cars flying past doing over a ton is quite nerve wracking. triangle placed about 100m behind us. sat about about 50m behind the car (i.e. upstream). one idiot decided to leave the Autobahn, but came from the outside lane and very nearly hit the Pug. he swerved and there was lots of tyre squealing and some smoke. made us glad to be standing where we were.

oh, and with regards to using the hard shoulder during busy periods…. this is often done on the Autobahns, but always inconjunction with lower speed limits. it does work and helps stop the concertina-effect of people braking when it gets tight.

Further, would you sit in your car if you broke down in the outside lane? Honestly?

So difficult to say, it depends so much on the circumstances at the time, ie what type of central barrier, direction car is facing, time of day/volume of traffic, weather…
There are long sections of the M4 now with the concrete barrier installed, so absolutely nowhere to go there, and if you clip one of those sections, it’s highly likely that the car will spin and end up facing the wrong way, or at least at a fairly acute angle. During the day, it’s very, very busy, and even around 1am there’s a surprising amount of traffic, lots of big trucks, but plenty of cars going pretty fast in the outside two lanes, but there would be at least a good chance of being able to abandon the car and get across the carriageway to the hard shoulder and over the crash barrier. During the day there’s no way I’d consider leaving the car, I’d phone the police and remain strapped in.
I do have hi-vis in the car, in fact I have an orange and a yellow vest tucked into the seat pockets, (both retrieved from the side of the road and given a quick wash), and a hi-viz waterproof coat in the boot, so if I could abandon the car then I’d grab one quick and wave it around until I was in a safe enough position to put it on.
A terrible situation for the poor lady in the accident, and the truck driver, and so very, very sad for the families of both.

“Every inch of a smart motorway is supposed to be covered by a camera. In theory, you’d be safer as the gantry would warn other road users until the cops / highway pcsos get to you.”
Yeah right.
Agreed after its been spotted and the lights are flashing and everyone has slowed. ( that’s not likely to happen)but until that has happened you will be safer with a hard shoulder as that’s better than the middle of a lane. And you can be out of the car and up the bank.

I’ve just heard that this was a colleague .

r.i.p

First RIP to the lady involved and thoughts with Bregante and colleagues.

I don’t know what I would do but I would definatly get out the car, at least then i could move to one side ( hopefully ) if something did come spinning towards me.

That’s section of the M61 is behind my house. There are no lights and no CCTV and only basic Matrix signs in the central reservation,

R.I.P

Thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues.

I had the engine on my van cut out on the motorway, situation made worse by the fact there were works going on in lane 1, so no hard shoulder and concrete barriers stopping me from getting off the road. Coasted as far as i could with the hazzards on hoping to get out of the road works but ended up stopped as close to the concrete barrier as I could be. Very scary place and fully expected a truck or someone who was speeding to go right into the back of me. I was out of car as soon as there was a gap in traffic, over the concrete barriers and straight on to the police, who were in attendance very quickly. I can’t imagine what I would of done if I’d not been able to get out of the fast or middle lanes. Staying put probably would be the best option.

I’d be going against the grain, and staying in the car with seatbelt until I’d figured out the best course of action. Even if someone hits the car, they’ll probably be braking hard already and scrubbed off a fair bit of speed, it would hurt but a fair chance of survival.

Fast and quiet, probably wait for a gap, seatbelt off and leg it across the lanes.

Fast and busy, stay put. Hopefully within seconds the traffic would start slowing up to the point there is a queue protecting you and they can let you cross the lanes.

Slow/congested traffic, crank the engine and let the clutch out in first, and limp it across the lanes to the hard shoulder.

If I had to stay in the outside lane, I would put full lock left and out of gear (like the emergency services do), then leg it in the direction of the traffic. Someone hits the car, it turns left away from me. If you run towards the traffic, you’re running alongside cars doing 80mph trying to do stop and swerve around each other.

We don’t really know why the lady got hit, tragic and horrible when you realise how easy it can happen to someone you know.

It’s all potential scenarios we are talking about and I’m not going to speculate what happened with the accident this morning but it’s ok thinking about potentially surviving an impact against one vehicle, but what if that shoves you into other traffic which then causes further impacts ?

Also I was told at college whilst doing motor mechanics that going into 5th gear would get your car moving faster than 1st gear if spinning it on the starter ? Makes sense as 4th gear used to be called direct I.e. 1 – 1 and 5th, and these days 6th gears are overdrives.

my sympathies are with the poor truck driver. guessing that the girl must have done soemthing stupid to end up running into the central reservation at that time in the morning…. lack of concentration, tiredness, texting.

the truck driver is probably beside himself now.

I have nearly collided with a stationary car in the outsde lane. It had just crashed and was at an angle across the lane. It was raining, terrible visibility and there was a lorry indicating to pull in front of me taking my attention, the car was upon me before I would have had chance to do anything luckily I was in the middle lane! Mrs oblivious, kids asleep, SHAT MYSELF!

RIP to the poor and lady and condolances to her family and Bregante , that must be tough.
A quick ggogle suggests staying in your vehicle recomendation to be contradicted by the AA , RAC , GOV.Co. UK, The Telegraph motoring page , The Independant Motoring page etc
Get out the passenger door and away up the verge is everyones elses recomendations.
Obviuosly if your on the outside of the carriageway this changes but its got be get out as safely as possible.
My con rod exited the block at speed in lane 2. the oil exiting the block ignited and fireballed under the car and out the back.
Cue major excitement from fellow motorists, lots of horns and flashing lights , as if I didnt know what had happened . What I did know and they didnt was the car had a fullish 70ltr LPG tank in the boot .

Managed to roll it across to lane 1 , then across an empty on ramp and up to the armco on the side of the on ramp . I then put out the fire with a 2ltr Evian bottle with a hole stabbed in the cap .

My guess is the poor lady knew to get to the hard shoulder and ran for it and just mistimed it by a sceond.

Thoughts and prayers to everyone affected by this incident and to Bregante and all the GMP staff.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/samantha-derbyshire-death-tributes-m61-11566954

alpin – guessing that the girl must have done soemthing stupid to end up running into the central reservation at that time in the morning…. lack of concentration, tiredness, texting.

nice… or perhaps she had a puncture and lost control, or swerved to avoid something – like someone who didn’t check their blindspot before pulling right, or hit an obstruction in the road etc.

stmind – A quick ggogle suggests staying in your vehicle recomendation to be contradicted by the AA , RAC , GOV.Co. UK, The Telegraph motoring page , The Independant Motoring page etc
Get out the passenger door and away up the verge is everyones elses recomendations.

I don’t think anyone has suggest that if the car is on the hard shoulder this is not the “correct” approach. Highways England were clearly referring to a car stuck in a LIVE lane. The AA’s advice for example is very clear, “If you can’t get to the hard shoulder, stay in your vehicle unless you can be absolutely sure it’s safe to leave it. Put your hazard lights on, keep your seatbelt on and call the emergency services.” http://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/advice/what-to-do-if-you-break-down