Evening all!

Bought a Trek EX8 in 2008. For my first full sus it has been fun, but I find it a bit wallowy on the climbs and would like some thing that climbs like a hard tail and descends like the full sus (wouldn’t we all?!). I tend to ride red-black trails, full days out in Scotland and play in the local woods.

I am just looking for frame (and possibly forks). I will hang the stuff from the EX8 on it. I tend to ride blokes bikes as a 5’9″ woman, but I like something with a shorter reach if possible.

My present thoughts are Yeti ASR 5 or Mythic Spitfire (partially because I went to Uni with the designer Keith!). Any views on either (have already read the previous post about the Spitfire) for someone with my riding requirement? Or any other suggestions?

Don’t think you could get two more different 5″ bikes.

The ASR5 is a quick trail weapon, the Spitfire is a very slack 5″ bike.

For general riding i’d go for the ASR5, or even a Nicolai Helius CC

They end up looking like this 😉

And are very good all round UK trail bikes, 90-130mm at the back, good for upto 140mm at the front, very very stiff and relatively uncommon on forums other than this one 😆

You could well be in danger of simply swapping one frame for another one that’s no different, really.

Have you really tried setting up the Trek so that it does what you want? If not, then both a basic review of the stock settings on the forks and the rear damper should give some benefit and if that doesn’t go far enough, sending those items off of a tuner should get you to where you need to be.

There should be no reason why the Trek can’t do what you’re aiming for and it will cost you a lot less than a new frame.

Of course, it you want a new frame then I can also whole heartedly recommend Nicolai as a brand and in particular the AC.

To be honest I would stay away from the Spitfire for a while: They are having real trouble with the tolerances, resulting in play in the rear end. I believe they will be replacing the bushing system with bearings in the future.

It’s a shame as I believe they ride amazingly well, but I just don’t think it is worth the risk.

+1 for what Mikey says. I’ve heard the same story from pretty reliable sources.

climbs like a hard tail and descends like the full sus

I know they’re a bit marmite, but I guarantee you’ll not find a better bike for this purpose than a Pronghorn PR6 LT. Utterly phenomenal bike, even moreso if you bend the rules a little and go for a 160mm fork rather than the recommended 150mm. Also, being a lady, you won’t have to worry about trapping your goolies in the top-mount shock.

Ox, shut up, they’re our secret.

Just ridden the Pivot Firebird. If the Pivot Mach 4 and 5.7 ride as well as this (and the reviews state as such) then I would seriously look them up. We’re going to be a dealer now on the basis of riding a 170mm bike that really climbs. Surprising stuff. I’m going to buy a Pivot Mach 4 for me – they’re not kidding when they say you don’t need Propedal!!!

I’ve just had a look at those Pronghorns, and the geometry just does not add up IMO: The head angle is 69deg!! For a 6 inch travel bike? That is crazy. That means that once the fork settles into it’s sag, the HA will be 70deg (approx): That is xc racer territory, not “all-mountain” territory.

You guys have got the measure of me! I like something a bit different…! Epic is a possible but ‘everyone’ has one! Lol!
I’ll have a good look at your suggestions. Anymore also welcome.

Thanks for the heads up on the Spitfire. The other half is a bike monkey and has changed the set up on the Trek for me a bit (usless woman on these mechinical things) and the next thing would be to send the shock to mojo to see if that improves things and as said keep the costs down. There is part of me who would just like a new toy (3.5 months out at the moment following a knee fracture and fancy a ‘welcome back to riding present’! Lol!).

the geometry just does not add up IMO

Yup. It still works though. Never felt more confident on a bike.
Although what you said may be why it’s better with 160mm forks.

I would like to clarify something on the Spitfire: From the discussions I have had (I ride a Mythic Rune, bought from Freeborn, by the way), it is nothing to do with the design of the bike, it is basically down to the fact that the factory, which is in Taiwan and produces other high-end mountain bikes, can not churn out the bikes to the required tolerances to make the bushing system work, hence the problems.

That’s the way I understood it anyway.

I am down south at the end of the month and may well pop to freeborn to have a play. I fully trust Keiths designs and mikey74 appreciate what you are saying.

Go and see Rob at Esher Freeborn: He’s a top bloke and will help you out.

Ok. Cool. I am certainly going to try as many as possible in this list along with any other suggestions before i buy which I didn’t really do last time as I got a good deal on the Trek which was more important at the time as a poor PhD student. A wage allows for a little more choice.

mikey I have a spitfire but have not heard anything on these tolerance issues. I keep an eye on the mtbr banshee forum but there’s been no mention so far. the rune certainly has had a few isolated issues but I think these cases have been on mis-aligned frames.

the spitfire is a very fine choice for bombing about in the woods on your fave trails. it doesn’t need propedal due to the linkage design but remains active throughout any climb. I don’t doubt the ARSE5 has more urgency to it but it is a lot lighter and more racey.

but at the end of the day I’d say get your shock tuned…

Another Helius CC owner here – I can totally recommend it. It’s a little heavier than the ASR5 but it’s probably also tougher.

Climbs well (especially since I fitted an RP23 rear shock) – almost as good as the Anthem X I had before. Descends even better. It loves bumpy, rocky singletrack – you simply don’t notice the rear suspension working which is perfect.

I toyed with the idea of an ASR5 and Intense Spider 2 but got a great deal on the Nicolai and certainly haven’t been disappointed. It’s a bike that feels special when you’re riding it.

The Helius tends to be a little shorter in the top tube too for a given size – I’m 5ft 7.5 and ride a medium and it feels the same length as my small Anthem X.

Mythic spitfire owner here and can confirm that while it is a fantastic bike, there are issues with the tolerances – as mentioned above – and I’m currently waiting for replacement pivots and bushes having gone through several sets. I’ve had a conversation with Keith about it and am still deciding what to do long term.

neninja – this is true, the medium CC has a 585mm effective TT length.

I’m 5’10 and a bit and ride a medium with a 65mm stem and a Joplin (so a bit laid back) and it fits my nicely.

Tolerance issues on the other hand are something you don’t need to worry about 😀

+1 for the Nicolai Helius CC. I picked a frame up from ebay 6 months ago for £550 although they are rarer than hen’s teeth. Awesome do it all bike.

OP – I’ve had both of these bikes, the Spitfire since they first came out and the ASR-5 for just a few days. Both climb very, very well – I can’t see either being a disappointment in this regard. The Spitfire descends superbly, and the Yeti is certainly shaping up to be in a similar league (although first impressions would still give the nod to the Spitfire).

The fork from your EX8 will work in the Yeti, but will certainly not work in the Spitfire (well, it will work, but you might not enjoy it). The ASR-5 was designed around a 120mm fork, and Yeti are happy for you to put a 140 in there. The Spitfire was designed around a 140 minimum, and works best around 150 – it will be way too low with a 120 installed.

Getting the shock Pushed should make it less wallowy, have you thought about that?

I haven’t looked at the measurements, but aren’t Yetis a bit long in the top tube?

Lapierre Zesty might be worth considering, it has very taut suspension (almost no wallow) and great geometry for descending too. Top tube is short/average too. Maybe heavier than yoru Trek though?

No problems with my Spitfire so far, I’ve done a bushing service (with instructions from MTBR) and everything is back working perfectly – no problems with play or flex in the rear end. As has been mentioned above, they are designed as a “downhiller’s XC bike” or whatever, so they are biased towards being fun downhill, you can still do big miles on them no problem.

Re: Spitfire: The conversation I had basically concluded that you may end up with a decent one, but there was no guarantee, and they had quite a few back with problems. So, it’s a case of pot luck.

Mikey that is the impression I get. If I was buying one new and I didn’t have other bikes I would worry about getting a wrong’un. As it is, I seem to have a decent one, and I’ve a Blue Pig and an SX Trail as well so even if it goes pear-shaped I’m not going to end up sitting in the house waiting on a replacement or spares.

As it is, its still my favourite bike that I own, by some margin, I’ve had so much fun on it already on all types of terrain, over all kinds of distances.

Glad to hear it Shandy . They look like great bikes and I do genuinely believe Banshee in general make great bikes (I love my Rune) and are a good company, run by good people.

When they release the Rune with Bearings, I will probably buy another one to replace the one I have now.

mikey74 – out of interest who have you spoken to at Freeborn re. the Spitfire issues?

We have a ASR5 demo in the shop (thebiketree), im really impressed with how it rides.

Like really impressed with how it handles. This coming from a BMXer who likes bikes on the more responsive side of things.

Im taking it for a proper thrash on the steel city downhill tomorrow, i’ll let you know how that goes.

if you’re going by sheffield at any time, feel free to demo.

Has to be said I do like the look of the Nicolai Helius CC as something a bit different and short top tube is appealing, but still allowing for the length on the downtube.

Any idea how much it costs to get the shock on the Trek pushed? My other half (p20) has suggested that and may be I should give that a go first (though do fancy new shiny toys! Lol!).

Chakaping – I did actually wish I had bought a zesty at the time, but the Trek was a good price, so yes may be I should consider it again, but I havent personally seen this as frame only.

mttm – thanks for the thoughts re the forks.

deanfbm – thanks for the offer.

As ever, so many great suggestions to consider.

I PUSHED my Spitfires RP23 and an already brilliant bike became phenomenal. It cost around £130 at TF Tuned and was worth every penny.

As for the Spitfire issues I think over torquing of the pivot axle retaining bolt is the main cause of worn axles and bushings.

If you like to ride very aggressively and are comfortable riding a long, low, slack bike with a low bottom bracket then the Spitfire will suit.

If you like to ride very aggressively…then the Spitfire will suit.

Then that probably isn’t me. I like to think myself not to girly but I am not aggresive.

The more I look at it I like the look of the Nicolai…..! Hummmm! Many pennies!

duir, what did you ask for with the push tune? was there anything specific you weren’t happy with on the original tune?

If you’re thinking about a Helius CC check the UK Nicolai site offers…. Pretty sure last time I checked there was a medium CC at a very good price…..

For a full sus that climbs like a hardtail and descends as well as anything.

The answer is a Maverick. Climbs better than any other full sus without exception.

Theres a good Helius CC review here – http://www.imbikemag.com/issue10/?page=87

How about the Chumba VF2, similar to the Nicolai CC.

We have a few frames @ £899 with fox RP23 boost valve

004 by srbwilson, on Flickr

redx – your are right. A very serious consideration and have hidden the credit card after an evening at the pub.

neninja – cool thanks. Quite impressed with IBM. To be fair haven’t read a bad review of the Nicolai.

loddrik – you have a good point and jamesecycles have the ML8 for £699 at the moment. Stupid problem is my former PhD supervisor who i ride with has one……

si_progressivebikes – thanks for the suggestion.