WWSTWD? About to file a complaint to school…

Really wondering what is going through the minds of all the folk coming on here to tell you how challenging the next stage of school, life, whatever will be. As if you can just say ‘oh yeah, better stop my daughter from having anxiety’ and fix it all up. I really hope @johndoe that you have the strength to put the opinions of the know-it-all-internet blokes into the appropriate perspective.

Anyway, fwiw, when I was a teacher there were numerous times I made mistakes with the support needs of kids I taught and I’m mortified by them all. I tried my best to learn from those mistakes and managed to repair a lot of the relationships (including a case that has some parallels with your daughter). I think you’ve done the right thing to have a good old rant about it and it sounds like you intend to try and mend what needs fixing. Best of luck to you.

I really hope @johndoe that you have the strength to put the opinions of the know-it-all-internet blokes into the appropriate perspective.

Sounds like you think this is one of those threads where everyone wades in with unqualified opinions. There are a few posts that might fall into that category but the majority are from people with useful perspectives. There are those who identify with the op’s daughter, several experienced teachers and some other interesting views.

When I was teaching I would often have kids who were painfully shy or reticent for all sorts of reasons. I was a firm believer in ‘reading around the class,’ Shakespeare plays etc, but would simply pass a kid who didn’t want to do it and it didn’t necessarily affect their achievements. Just a word to the teacher (HoYs can be very busy and preoccupied) should suffice.  A student who was severely dyslexic after a while put up her hand and said, ‘Sir, I’ll read’, I had to look down with tears in the corner of my eyes. She did it and went on to do really well.

Many parents are disengaged or negative about schools but for most teachers a ‘quiet word’ would be noted and acted on.

But Bill – what you are saying is exactly what we are trying to get to – a teacher that understands, I really don’t feel we are expecting too much (despite what some people here are saying 🙁

the know-it-all-internet blokes

Not all blokes FWIW

John, what you are trying to achieve is completely reasonable and achievable. Maybe you’re overempathising and internalising your daughter’s stress. Just send a note saying how your daughter experiences anxiety in a number of contexts and that you would be most grateful if they gave her a bit of slack and you look forward to discussing her progress at the next parents’ evening (and that you appreciate the difficult job they are doing!)  Job jobbed.

Really wondering what is going through the minds of all the folk coming on here to tell you how challenging the next stage of school, life,

Real world experience of being parents with kids that also suffered from anxiety (which in part is just an element of growing up for many kids, both of mine hated attention in the class room, my eldest in particular it was always shes lovely to teach but needs to engage more at parents evenings, she’s twenty now and extremely confident). I appreciate the OPs daughter might be suffering on another level. However there is always the question of nature vs nurture (as unfashionable that may be these days) as the number of kids now presenting with life inhibiting levels of anxiety is massive compared to where it was 20 years ago. Whilst there were ujndoubtly kids 20 years ago who the system failed completely there’s got to have been an element of a change in  parenting that also accounts for the rise.

This is backed up here by the wealth of professional experience of people seeing many many kids going through school so giving the OPs rather limited view of the situation some more context.

The reason for commenting on the future is the ground work for that starts now and it’s important to factor that in not just to take action to survive the day  to day.

As if you can just say ‘oh yeah, better stop my daughter from having anxiety’ and fix it all up

Yes I think we all know that, thanks for mansplaining it for us.

Are we all on a spectrum of some sort, or is it nature / nurture that makes us turn out how we are as individuals?

Sort of feel for OP and also feel sorry for classroom teachers if every kid has such individual needs.

As a parent I would be doing everything I could to try and understand my kids anxiety and get them to the point when answering a question in a classroom is normal behaviour, not trying to protect them and reinforcing the anxiety. In fact both Mrs FD and I are fairly introverted. We both have to present things as part of our job which causes us anxiety, but we do it. Our sons school do public speaking, and he is doing a GCSE in it aged 14. He has no anxiety/ stress about this because it’s been normal for him from a young age

Does COVID have something to answer for where kids could ‘hide’ behind a computer screen?

If it’s not resolved now as a kid, adult life will be a miserable place for her. IMO as a parent it’s your responsibility to try and support her. Whether this is buying professional help or working it trough, rather than putting it at other people’s door or taking her out of the situation. Unfortunately the NHS and schools don’t have the resource (cash) to help with all this

edit: above post was posted at same point as I posted

“Whilst there were ujndoubtly kids 20 years ago who the system failed completely there’s got to have been an element of a change in  parenting that also accounts for the rise.”

I would say there’s been a massive societal shift over the last 20 years. Plus incredible COVID related disruption more recently.

It’s a very delicate situation for Johndoh and he has my sympathy. I’d also be fuming in his position. But IMO all guns blazing is the wrong approach. A bit more understanding and empathy on both sides would be my suggestion.

Fascinating discussion..  a couple of points from me:

When Bill replied up thread with his view I thought it was a very mellow reasoned bit of input to support your view.  I was surprised by your reply below:

But Bill – what you are saying is exactly what we are trying to get to – a teacher that understands, I really don’t feel we are expecting too much

I think you took offence that simply wasn’t given.  Bill can correct me if I’ve got it wrong but he was largely in agreement and supporting.  There are IMHO lots of replies on this thread that aren’t in your corner, but take a pause each time and be careful not to take everything as an attack

The main point is that people need to realise that there are different levels of anxiety and issues. Loads of people have posted along the lines ” I’m anxious but I still present for my FTSE 100 company” or ” my son was anxious but still won the debating prize for Oxford”

The OP’s kid’s issue may well be on a completely different level, and what worked for you may not work for her.

OP

Teacher here and dad to a daughter who haf chronic fatigue and anxiety

I think what you are asking for is perfectly reasonable. The number of students any one teacher teaches might be a constraint. But surely after messing it up once you’d think it’s the one face you might remember. You’re daughter has the right to be treated as an individual.

Asking for a meeting is the correct response. Just calmly state the situation and reiterate the familys concerns and needs. Escalation might be email to head then chair of governors. IMHO that would be for refusal to help not honest mistakes.

I’m a big believer in the school system. But basically it is and always has been tough for some young people. Finding school difficult doesn’t mean that you can’t cope with the rest of life

I’ve probably said this before but for the record due to a combination of chronic fatigue and depression my daughter didn’t manage a full day at school ever in years 9,10 or 11. She did gcses on 4 hours tuition a week in our kitchen. She sat her gcse exams in our front room. Pretty good results. She illegally left school at 16 and did 2 open university units. During her gcses she might go 10 days with out leaving the house. Then i might get her to hobby craft but she’d make me pay so that she didn’t have to talk to the girl on the check out

To out amazement she said she was going to university. She was still having quite a lot of issues but was much more settled in the third year. University provided 18 counselling sessions which really helped

She then worked at the same college as me as a tutor 18 months. Still some issues as a few aspects of the job were a bit triggering. But she stood in front of classes every day

She set off for France to learn French. She had a room in a house and a place at a private language school. She managed 9 months in France building up a social life speaking French

She now lives away from home with a new admin job. She’s still not 100%. 2 days ago that she was looking for another job. One of her issues being is colleagues being disrespectful of students disability needs.

So I’d if you can go can go from not paying in hobby craft to a pretty normal life then 87% attendance and please didn’t ask me questions to normal seems entirely plausible. I’m really not buying into toughening up for school. School isn’t life

lines ” I’m anxious but I still present for my FTSE 100 company” or ” my son was anxious but still won the debating prize for Oxford”

My point of the example is I couldn’t put my kid in a situation which exacerbates the situation. I’m no psychologist but letting a kid sit at the back of a class not answering questions for 2 years isn’t doing anything to support removing the anxiety it just reinforces it and multiplies it

As a parent I would be trying to ask what can I do to help my daughter improve, not just sweep the issue under the carpet with an easy solution. That is not a criticism of OP.

I don’t know, maybe the problem will go away if you manage it for a bit.  Being a teenager is hard for some people and lots of those pressures ease as you get older.  I really, really struggled as a teen with speaking in front of the class (bright red, teary eyes, shaking etc) but I can just about manage now!

I wonder if not having those memories of being stuck and embarrassed as a teen would have made uni/work life easier.

Another teacher’s response (HoY too FWIW).

If kid has no identified SEND status then meet with HoY (OP mentions both HoY and Year Manager though – not sure what the distinction is?).

I’d there is SEND then meet with that team.

In both cases, explain concerns and ask for support with tackling anxiety rather than trying to avoid triggering situations (although this might well be part of the short term response).

Going in with an adversarial mindset will get nowhere. Decent HoY will discuss mentoring/counseling, potential MH/SEND referral and communications with teachers without being prompted or ‘goaded’.

I am a Principal Teacher of Pastoral Care with a caseload of about 275 pupils. For each of these pupils I am expected to know their literacy and numeracy levels, whether they get free school meals, the deprivation index of the postcode they live in, any ASN needs they might have and the correct strategies to address them, any behavioural traits and the correct strategies to address them, whether they are a Young Carer, or if they are somewhere in the care system, or have been at any point in the past, as well as if they are on the Child Protection Register. Some pupils need time out, some need coloured overlays, some text-to-speech, and others speech-to-text. Some can’t bear to see images of certain things as they are triggered. Allergies? Medical info? Know it. Some need to sit at the front, some at the back, some near the window, some near the door.

I absolutely promise you that the staff involved here are not doing it out of malice, or even incompetence. The reality is keeping all of this information in the front of your mind whilst delivering a curriculum, managing behaviour and remembering to breathe is very challenging. Sometimes things slip through. In these instances it was you daughter, and that is not nice for anyone involved.

As @Stevious “when I was a teacher there were numerous times I made mistakes with the support needs of kids I taught and I’m mortified by them all. ” – this x 100.

No one is in the job to deliberately do this, as it would be far easier to earn a living somewhere else, and anyone who was truly malicious like that would never get anywhere near the profession in the 21st century.

Speak to the school. I fully expect that you will be received with sympathy and apology.

Ex teacher here. Had a few students similar who suffered from severe social anxiety in a busy environment. It was pretty easy to cater for the students by allowing them to sit where they felt most comfortable and not ask them questions infront of the group. Also not putting pressure on them to not present their work infront of an entire group if they didn’t want to. It created a good relationship and actually encouraged them to speak out at times when they felt they could.

The problem was management and teaching observations. Not ofted. Ofsted were easy and understanding. The onsite management and observation team were a nightmare and simply didn’t understand the students. They expected everyone to be confident extroverts. Stupid expectation. So it’s a difficult situation. If she has a good teacher, they’ll be understanding and will help. But, they will be under so much pressure to teach in different ways.

TroutWrestler has it. Having seen it from both sides as a HoY and a parent I can confirm that it’s spot on.

Not ofted. Ofsted were easy and understanding. The onsite management and observation team were a nightmare and simply didn’t understand the students. They expected everyone to be confident extroverts.

As some one who is part of a team of 2 that devises and runs our observation program I’m really shocked by that. Its about a million miles from where we are.

I’m no psychologist but letting a kid sit at the back of a class not answering questions for 2 years isn’t doing anything to support removing the anxiety it just reinforces it and multiplies it

Or they may not be ready to do that just yet and forcing the issue will cause long-term damage to the student. We all develop competencies at differing speeds.

An article I read recently (from a former head teacher with a daughter with similar challenges) said that forcing a child back into situations is like telling someone to go back into their burning home. I think that perfectly sums up how people may feel.

At the risk of over simplifying or going off at a tangent but with no preloaded judgement, does she have a smart phone?

How Smartphones Are Rewiring Our Brains, Why Social Media is Eradicating Childhood & The Truth About The Mental Health Epidemic with Jonathan Haidt

FWIW what you’re saying resonates with my own experience of my 9yo daughter, although perhaps not quite to the same extent (yet, it could happen by the same age). I’m determined she doesn’t have a smartphone until at least 14 based on evidence that is coming out.

Apologies if irrelevant.

Yes, naturally she does have a phone and we know it isn’t helping, however she has had it since she started secondary school so it would be very difficult to take it away. We are constantly trying to find ways of stopping her from spending all her time on it.