Women, wives in particular!

Read ‘Why men don’t listen, and why women can’t read maps’…very insightful…but still hasn’t helped me.

OP – was there a set of keys and bowl in your hands when you mentioned ‘partying’ with the attractive 20-30s?! 😉

20’s – 30’s, festival – going to be some laughing gear of some description. Is this what Mrs Wrighty has the tits on about?

And Hora.

and counting 😉

Marriage is full of men who can’t understand why the woman they married had changed to much and women who can’t understand why the man they married has changed so little.

The most amazing thing is how normal your other half can appear to other people.
Oh the Horror! the Horror!

The columnist Minette Marrin wrote this a few years ago and I though it was so good that I kept it. It gets better towards the end:

The good wife is an old fashioned realist

Minette Marrin

How to be a perfect wife is not, you might have thought, a very contemporary question. Decades of feminism have been much more concerned with how to be a perfect career woman, exotic lover, fully fledged fashionista, alpha female and, latterly, yummy mummy; being a wife has been somewhat incidental, even for those who get married or stay married.

Gloomy research appears from time to time, suggesting that when women who try to have it all find they can’t, the first thing they give up on is their husbands, not least on sex with their husbands. That may be partly why two marriages out of three end in divorce and most people don’t marry at all; marriage rates are at their lowest since records began. So was rather quaint to read in The Times last week an article entitled “In search of the good wife”, complete with a questionnaire from 1958. “Do you renew your nail varnish as soon as it chips?” it demands. “Do you go through his clothes every month or so to check on minor repairs? And then do you make them? Would you stay on at a party when you knew he was tired and wanted to go home? Do you use table napkins? Do you know the cheapest cuts of meat? Do you clean your handbag as often as you clean your shoes? Do you resent it when he has a night out with the boys?”

A familiar picture soon emerges of a carefully groomed woman with primped hair and a wasp waist who calms down the children and touches up her lipstick when her husband comes home from work, listens charmingly to his day’s debriefing, and then offers him a well cooked but thrifty dinner. There was a time not so long ago when that would have been simply ridiculous. This traditional vision of matrimonial labour was considered not just laughable but repressive: a woman’s abilities and ambitions were sacrificed to her husband’s, without any security other than his goodwill.

Now, though, it seems that this vision is being revisited, and not only by Stepford wives, or those alarming “surrendered wives” of the American religious right. Ordinary women are at last beginning to realise that feminists, in their passionate rejection of traditional marriage, may have thrown out the man with the bathwater, and that they rather wish they hadn’t. A man, like a woman, needs an incentive to get married and stay married; feminism forgot that, and forgot too that marriage is more in women’s interests than in men’s. So the old fashioned question has become interesting again, at least for women who want to find and keep a husband and realise, increasingly, how difficult that is: what makes a good wife? I think women should start by facing some awkward facts. It’s a mistake in any relationship to insist too much on egalitarian principles. Feminism, understandably, has concentrated too much on women’s rights and, by extension, too much on husbands’ duties. Why, on top of working long hours and forsaking all others, would a man put out the garbage and change the nappies for a woman who is too busy with her own career and too tired by her own schedule to bother much about him? Or, to be blunt, to have sex with him? It may be his duty to put up and shut up and keep on doing the late night feeds and the early morning commuting, but it’s hardly very appealing. Nor is insisting on these duties a very clever way of trying to hold on to a husband, if that is what a woman wants.
One hard fact a would-be wife has to face — and I was absolutely horrified to realise this myself — is that it’s not possible for a married couple to have two demanding jobs and children and a good relationship. Something has to give. If the relationship has to be neglected, then the marriage will fail, which will be very bad for the children. If the children are neglected, then the marriage is worthless anyway.

So something must give on the work front and this is probably, for many women, the price of being a good wife and having a good marriage. Unless a couple are extremely well paid, and have plenty of domestic help, her brilliant career will have to be less brilliant for a while; she will have to spend some time in the Mummy lane. It could, of course, be the other way round. But another harsh truth is that alpha males won’t stay at home in the Daddy lane and nor will plenty of other males of all descriptions; they refuse to be ersatz housewives. They would rather not get married, and as the figures show, increasingly they aren’t, and increasingly, if they are, they move out. So rule number one for a wife is to forget about equal rights and entitlements. Think instead about motivation. When you want to please your child, or your lover, you think hard about what might make them happy and then do it. It’s not a chore, or even if it is that hardly matters; it’s an act of love or of loyalty. Yet strangely, in marriage this obvious motivational technique seems to wither away with the wedding flowers. Women are convinced it is their right not to have sex when they don’t feel like it, and it is a man’s duty to wash up, though he hates it — and so it is, of course. But that’s not the point. Granny was right; never say no, and never nag.

I think that my generation, and later ones even more so, have been led astray by romantic 1960s notions of sincerity and authenticity; it began to be believed that in the name of existential good faith and psychological well being individuals ought always to act and speak in accordance with their feelings — telling it like is and letting it all hang out. So sex without passionate desire — the boffe de politesse of a kindly marriage — is inauthentic.
Similarly, talking without expressing all one’s resentments and expectations and anxieties is a kind of insincerity, or dishonesty even. But this rather adolescent attitude is entirely at odds with the tolerance, discretion and generosity of body and spirit needed in a good marriage.

Husbands are mostly quite simple. Generally, what they want is unlimited, enthusiastic sex, constant reassurance, good food and plenty of freedom, of at least three of these four. Some can be trained to be very helpful domestically and some even enjoy it; but most are not bred for it. But they have many excellent and endearing qualities; the rewards of living with a well-motivated husband, if not quite above rubies, are very considerable, high though the price may be.

We are not Alone……not Really[/url]………

Husbands are mostly quite simple. Generally, what they want is unlimited, enthusiastic sex, constant reassurance, good food and plenty of freedom, of at least three of these four. Some can be trained to be very helpful domestically and some even enjoy it; but most are not bred for it.

Sex – local hooker. Reassurance – local hooker. Good food – local restaurant. Freedom – local bike trails. Bosh!

Interesting websites. Both writers make the simple mistake of actually arguing with their GFs. I don’t argue about anything because I know that my grasp of semantics is not good enough to win. Therefore I just bite my lip, say nothing and store it up for the future.

One thing I have stored up is that many years ago, she admitted in an unguarded moment that on the extremely rare occasions when I do reach the end of my tether and lose my rag, she finds it frightening. She even said that she finds it frightening when I lose my temper with other people. I pretended not to hear her but I noted it carefully and I don’t lose my temper; I just quietly bide my time knowing I’ve got that available to me as the ultimate weapon to be used only in moments of extreme need.

Minette Marrin’s website is worth a look. Thanks Mr G.

I was prepared to give Tom_W1987 the benefit of the doubt but now it turns out he’s still serving notice with his original landlord http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/should-i-be-a-prick-and-would-it-be-legal so can only have been co-habiting for a few weeks I think we can dismiss his confidence in his partner as naive at best.

When I was about 14 I had a mate stay over for the night and we camped in the garden, next day we were off on Holiday to Wales for more camping.

Anyway, my mate was swearing in his sleep like a right trooper, I didn’t wake him up but I did recite his foul mouthed slumber speech to him in the morning to see if he was aware of this night time tirade. When I had finished I unzipped the tent to see my mum at he conservatory window looking absolutely fuming (never swore in front of her)

Anyway, she refused to go on holiday with me and in a stubborn female manner fell out with my dad as well and ignored all of his attempts to get her to come on what was a well planned trip. In the end me and my dad had an amazing week camping, biking, boating on Bala Lake etc

Mum was effing fuming that we didn’t turn round and go back for her 😆 talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Ooops; we had the same strategy just before we set off to camp for two nights to watch the TDF in Addingham. Gti Junior and I wanted to take the road bikes but Mrs Gti threw a strop saying she didn’t want to sit alone in the tent while we enjoyed ourselves. She reused to come so thinking that would give her more long-term ammunition for abuse, we dropped the idea of taking the bikes as the less painful choice.

Chap once said to me, women don’t want to be loved, they want to be dominated.
At the time I was outraged. But the more I look around me…

Wasswas, 4 years, since the 2nd year of university. I do wonder about this thread considering there are at least four female posters on here.

I just don’t get it, most people can get annoying if you live with them for a long time. It’s not just women.

Neither do I get the whole “I don’t understand women” thing, it’s loads easier to talk to and have a rational conversation with a woman. Maybe I’m just **** in the head.

The old Stanislaw Lem quote about humans not wanting to look for new world’s but simply mirrors of our own applies to relationships. If you don’t like your partner because she’s crazy, it’s probably a reflection on yourself.

Nah, mine knows she’s bat shit crazy Tom

Husbands GFs are mostly quite simple. Generally, what they want is unlimited, enthusiastic sex, constant reassurance, good food and plenty of freedom, of at least three of these four. Some can be trained to be very helpful domestically and some even enjoy it; but most are not bred for it.

People are just people. girls not really any different to boys in most things. My ex was mental about somethings and happy about stuff that would drive me nuts.

Sad that old blokes are saying “I don’t understand wimmin”

Some of these blokes aren’t deserving of a woman!

Sad that old blokes are saying “I don’t understand wimmin”

I think most of us just don’t understand people, tbh. It’s just that the person we misunderstand the most is the one closest to us.

As the old adage goes, “if it flies, floats or fornicates, always rent it”

I can’t say I do that, but I’ve found the least stressful way to live with my other half is simply not to live with her. Been together 8 years, we have our own houses, we each spend plenty of time to ourselves as well as time with each other, we have a good relationship.

Are you sure that’s the adage?

I just can’t imagine why I’d want to rent an airship, poo, or a randy hedgehog.

Interesting websites. Both writers make the simple mistake of actually arguing with their GFs. I don’t argue about anything because I know that my grasp of semantics is not good enough to win. Therefore I just bite my lip, say nothing and store it up for the future.

One thing I have stored up is that many years ago, she admitted in an unguarded moment that on the extremely rare occasions when I do reach the end of my tether and lose my rag, she finds it frightening. She even said that she finds it frightening when I lose my temper with other people. I pretended not to hear her but I noted it carefully and I don’t lose my temper; I just quietly bide my time knowing I’ve got that available to me as the ultimate weapon to be used only in moments of extreme need.

😯

Women are convinced it is their right not to have sex when they don’t feel like it, and it is a man’s duty to wash up, though he hates it — and so it is, of course. But that’s not the point. Granny was right; never say no, and never nag.

Am I the only one who is a little uncomfortable with that statement.

Pretty glad the more enlightened blokes are starting to post in this thread.

GF, nope! Don’t even want to read back and see who said it!

Wallop, I know. I made that face when I saw that post as well 😕

BN it was at the end of the Minette Marrin that was quoted.

Ah right; glad to hear that it’s just a quote! (and in context as well).

It’s a rather rambling article though.

Ah, Minette Marrin, proper right wing Daily Mail click baiting nutjob. Other classics include banning cyclists from city roads and saying that women shouldn’t cycle because it makes them sweaty and have muscular calves.

If she’s the sort of women STW chaps are attracted to, no wonder they’re having trouble! 😆

There is probably a lot of truth to that article about life getting busy and husbands/wives letting their relationship slip as it is easier than ignoring kids/job etc.

Another question, should your wife not enjoy having sex with you rather than seeing it as a duty? Surely she has a sex drive too?

About four times a year, yes….

Surely she has a sex drive too?

With somebody else more like!

The grass is always greener and there’s less risk of naggage. And if that should start, you can walk away. But it hurts on the inside. For you shouldn’t be looking elsewhere for something that was so much a vital part of your relationship.

Let’s go back to the 50’s, everything was better then.

People evolve and continue to do so, we’re shaped by experiences and knowledge. We also have a huge number of opportunities open to us.

I look at my friends and there’s all different situations from living a charade that fools nobody to being divorced. A strong marriage has eluded many as children, elderly parents, careers have all played their part whilst ignoring the passage of time and what is staring one in the face.

It’s tough.

Wish I’d taken my own advice yesterday – industrial grade PMT :(([

+1 Cinnamon_Girl.