[Closed] Will religion ever die out and make the world a better place?

*backs out of thread*

nuke the whole of the middle east..............sorted 😀

[i]the only sticking point is that the religious fanatics don't open there eyes to the facts.[/i]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh

I suspect we will die out before our religions do.

That, and not all religions necessarily contradict the 'facts'.

The thing about religion is that it explains what happens when people die. If you think about your father dieing or your wife, death is tragic and awful. For some it's just too much to consider that life. just. ends. It's much nicer to believe they go on somewhere else and are happy, it makes people fell better to believe that. Then man came along and took that need and created all the rubbish that we know as organised religion and now it's all a mess. So no I don't think religion will ever die out, humans are spiritual.

People use religion as an excuse for a war. There would still be wars even if there was no religion. What's happening now between the two branches of Islam in Iraq and Syria isn't really anything to do with religion its about power and control. I am sure if we took some time to look back the various wars in the last 200 years very few would have a genuine link to religious differences.

By the way there many religious people who do not believe in creationism.

Don't often find myself in agreement with Jambalaya - but in this ^^ I do.

As diseases go it's far too mild to die out naturally as it doesn't kill the host quickly enough, so no, I can't see it ever going without a massive global vaccination campaign.

If some day, a group of scientists prooved conclusively that God exists, would it cease to be religion?

Science doesn't have all the answers to all the questions. In fact many key questions cannot be asked from a scientific mode. So your original assertion is a little flawed OP. We have philosophy to ask and answer some of these other questions though...

War is never about religion - is about power and greed.

However I do agree that organised religions have too much money and do not really need more!

This thread is wrong in so many ways. Wake up

Just a tip - the fact that you started this thread shows that you don't know what the point of religion is in the modern world.

On the bike forum there are people talking about stems, forks, tyres and whatnot. To the rest of the world, this is as pointless as religion is to you.

And don't blame religion for wars - most of the wars are when religion is also aligned with other things.

There will always be humans who want to believe in things for which there is no supportive evidence, being as we are at the dead end of this particular strand of evolution and unlikely to mutate into an improvement.

So, no. Essentially.

Religion is based on faith.
The more scientific evidence there is that contradicts religion, then the greater an affirmation of faith it is to carry on believing.
Using facts to counter belief is ultimately self defeating.

On one hand, it sounds like a wonderful idea to end religion. On the other, would we have to work Sundays and other such faith holidays? Universal Peace & Love vs Time Off - tricky choice..

People dont like the idea of death being final.. its better for some to believe in an afterworld paradise as a comfort to dying. Depends if you have 'Faith' and believe... or dont.

The two biggest conflicts in history (afaik) have had nothing to do with religion, unless I've missed something along the way that is, which is vey possible. As jamba says, It's a crap excuse for a fight. Relgion has caused a lot of bother throughout history though, you can scrap it for me.

Well I'm not religious at all i think religion can have a positive impact on society.

The thing about religion is that it explains what happens when people die

One of the (many...) problems with people is that we look for 'meaning' in things. Some people use science, some use religions and some use a mixture of both to find this 'meaning' or knowledge as they see it.

I am sadly coming to the perspective that there is no real meaning to life. The only thing that seems essential is to do as little harm as possible and do as much good as possible.

The totalitarian regimes of the 20th Century were the cause of more ideologically driven death through war and mass slaughter than any religious extremism. I'm no great fan of religion, but I think you need to look to extremism generally, with religion sometimes providing the moral justification in some but by now means all cases - ethnic, nationalistic and political ideology will do equally as well.

Well I'm not religious at all i think religion can have a positive impact on society.

Some positive religious impact, earlier...

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Lest we forget...

Religion serves an evolutionary purpose especially in the development and spread of settled agricultural civilisations. Basically as society gets bigger than kin groups then something else to hold you together gives you an advantage. Religion fits with the evolutionary trait in humans to see pattern and meaning in disparate signs , it also gives our overdeveloped and complex brains a comfort blanket and sense of purpose to avoid thinking about the empty blackness before and after our brief sparks of life.
In short religion is tosh but really useful harwired tosh so we won't be able to edit it out.

Some positive religious impact, earlier...

For balance:

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I read a really good article recently, written by an anthropologist.

He argued that logically religion should've died out as more and more of the founding principles (intelligent design etc) were proved incorrect by science, and the fact it takes effort to follow. But it hasn't died out.

So he argued there is some sort of evolutionary advantage to following religion, possibly relating to subconciously passing down key survival information from generation to generation.

edit - beaten by crankboy!

This obviously relates to those who actually follow the religion, rather than those who ignore it's principles but use the name to promote violence a la IS

He argued that logically religion should've died out as more and more of the founding principles (intelligent design etc) were proved incorrect by science, and the fact it takes effort to follow. But it hasn't died out.

Well you could argue it's in the process of happening now.

You're born, you live, you die. That's it. There's no 'point' or 'meaning', but if you can get through it (as others have already said) by generally not being a t[i]w[/i]at and doing as much nice stuff as possible for others without needing to be thanked or recognised for it, that's great 🙂 Lots of people live in fear of 'what ifs' without actually enjoying what's going on in their lives right now.

Everyone needs to believe something. I believe I'll have another drink.

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Losing our religion won't kill the 'isms' though, will it? We humans can be quite dumb underneath it all. It is relatively simple to mobilise or even control people by tapping into their innate hunger for an easy-to-understand 'white v black', 'them v us', 'good vs evil' worldview that is so powerful we sometimes murder millions of ourselves while feeling wholly justified. We find it very hard to celebrate differences and look to compartmentalise and judge others based upon ill-conceived stereotypes and assumptions. Muslims vs Christians, Nazis vs Jews, Mods vs Rockers, Vans vs Crocs yadayada

I predict business as usual for a very long time indeed.

but where do all the calculators go?

You're born, you live, you die. That's it. There's no 'point' or 'meaning'

Hmm not sure I agree with that. I've been kicking around the idea of a set of natural moral absolutes without there being the need for a 'god' for a little while now.

My theory is along the 'strong anthropic principle' lines, i.e. that the universe is compelled to give rise to intelligent life that can observe it and colonise it.

The basic argument is that intelligent life, i.e. life that comprehend it's own comprehension, must act in a way that promotes its own continuity and that of other species, as far as possible.

If we act in a way that is agaisnt that principle, then effectively you've broken the moral imperative.

Simples. No need for a god and yet the governing laws require us to obey quite a few of the ten comandments.

"For the faithful, no proof is neccessary. For the faithless no proof is possible" So, no religion will, unfortunately, never die out.

However, as has been stated, very few wars have been started by people who truly believe in the actual tenets of the chosen religion. War is started by power hungry, blokes that twist & distort "the message"

If God love us, how come extremists aren't extremely loving? 🙄

but where do all the calculators go?

Same place as the biros.

All will be explained when the 'creators' return. They've just popped home for lunch as they work on different timescale to us. They're going to be gutted when they see the state of egypt and the pyramids

...by generally not being a ****

He argued that logically religion should've died out as more and more of the founding principles (intelligent design etc) were proved incorrect by science

I don't think any of the founding principles of religion have been proved incorrect by science. Intelligent design isn't a founding principle, its just a not very good theory put forward by nutjobs to explain away evolution. (And I don't think Darwin ever denied the existence of God?)

And all this modern stuff about faith without proof is crap as well. Plenty of bright people saw the existence of God in the world they experienced around them (thinking of Newton, and Bishop Asser (the very bright guy who worked that the world was created in 3000BC)). The Science bit just explained how it all works.

And yes, religion has done a lot of good in the world. But perhaps its time we moved on.

I thought religion was dead the 80s, or at least the only religious types were about to die. Religion and the religous were universally mocked.

I blame political correctness. 🙂

The ten commandments, boiled down, distilled and rewritten in BASIC-

10 Don't be a t[i]w[/i]at
20 Goto 10

run

For balance:

Mother Theresa, you can't be serious!

Glad I will never have to be cared for in on of her "houses of the dying"
Little to no palliative care so the victims suffering can bring them closer to Jesus

Only a narcissistic money grubbing religious zealot could get away with it.

Religions are just established personality cults, we should all open our minds and get over it;-)

Mother Theresa, you can't be serious!

You know what while we're at it, that Lady Diana cow was a right attention whore.

I'm not a fan of Mother Theresa either...

I'm not a fan of Mother Theresa either...

You lot can be such a bunch of sanctimonious ****waffles sometimes.

I agree her motives were misguided but anyone who gives up their life to live in poverty, disease and squallor in order to try and help others, even if that is from this deeply misguided place, really should be held up as a good person.

it's all tribal.

I've been a vocal atheist for ages, decided it's pointless. All you can do is bring up your kids without religion if you don't believe and maybe one day that'll be that. In the meantime let them get on with it believers don't stop believing just because you think they are wrong.

As for the conflicts it's about land and nicking other peoples stuff - Just like it always is.

geetee it's worth reading Hitchen's book on Mother T, he slates her like a roofer.

geetee it's worth reading Hitchen's book on Mother T, he slates her like a roofer.

I've read quite a few critical exposes of her and as many that hold her up as a saint.

I have no doubt that she acted in a way that I would not agree with on many occassions because of her beliefs (contraception was another big problem with her approach for example).

My point is that its really easy to sit in your comfy chair in the western world and throw criticisms at someone who is 'in the arena'.

I'd rather be in the arena and coming up short than be the critic who points out how others stumble.

Tax them. Put the books in the fiction department and put an 'entertainment purposes' disclaimer on the cover. Ban unecessary surgical procedures on under 18s. Ban under 18s from indoctrination meetings. Ban religious schools.

That should solve the problem in a generation.

If you want to do good in the world, best use the vast amount of money (some of it stolen from the poor) you get alleviating suffering, rather than glorifying suffering to follow a perverse dogma, whilst expanding your empire to further your self righteous mission to sainthood.

Just saying, if you want to use a religious exemplar, don't rely on the Albanian harpy.

No offense and all that 😉

This "religion is the cause of all wars" thing is becoming something of an easy excuse for not looking into the true causes of war, which I think are power and greed, amongst other things. It's almost being used by some atheists to excuse themselves of any responsibility for current unrest in the world.

By the way there many religious people who do not believe in creationism.

But they do all tend to believe in something even more improbable:
God.

So he argued there is some sort of evolutionary advantage to following religion, possibly relating to subconciously passing down key survival information from generation to generation.

It's all in your head religion or not.

🙄

5thElefant - Member
Tax them. Put the books in the fiction department and put an 'entertainment purposes' disclaimer on the cover. Ban unecessary surgical procedures on under 18s. Ban under 18s from indoctrination meetings. Ban religious schools.

That should solve the problem in a generation.

Because that worked so well in the Soviet Union. 🙄

Interesting thread....

I can understand the original story of the baby Jesus (not the Top Gear version i must add..), but then it all runs away as a consequence of there being a lot of unexplained stuff as science wasnt up to it, so story telling kicked in.

After the start of the stories its been the biggest and best marketing exercise the world has ever seen, which is gradually being undermined as science develops. Maybe it will fizzle out and the lure of Belief transferred to some thing or someone else.

A fair amount of world unrest seems to have been orchestrated under the catch all of Religion, most recently Bush and Blair in Iraq.

No because the question doesn't make sense.

As long as there's conceit and foolishness, no.

And religion isn't the problem, human beings are.

geetee1972 - Member

You lot can be such a bunch of sanctimonious ****waffles sometimes.
I agree her motives were misguided but anyone who gives up their life to live in poverty, disease and squallor in order to try and help others, even if that is from this deeply misguided place, really should be held up as a good person.

geetee. I am all for selflessness and casting aside worldly goods and concerns to live with the and care for the poor. The reporting of the treatment or lack of that people received is where my issue with Mother Theresa lies. I don't have an issue with her religious motives at all - it is failure to address the suffering of others in the pursuance of God that I have a problem. I say this as someone who isn't an atheist BTW...

I pray that religion will die out!

A load of old tosh for those weak in mind (in my opinion).

It has been postulated that if we had an apocalypse and humans ended up almost extinct and back to Stone Age times,
eventually some form of religion would surface due to mankinds need to believe that there is something else other than life and death.

Im 95% in the camp of "what the ****, you use an imaginary friend to justify the shit you do" and 5% in the camp of "if lifes so crap that your only hope is an imaginary friend....".

I think religion is bollocks, but then i also think a lot of nasty ****s just use it as an excuse and they find any other excuse given the chance....

Right, I'm going to tell my bearded, dress wearing man in the sky on you lot!

You'll get you comeuppance on judgement day.

If religion disappeared you'd just pick on roadies more.
What worthwhile causes will you pour your time and effort into Dobbo?

Don't give any of them the time of day;

"Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse."

Hitchens.

People believe what they want to. Many people like having faith, so they do. That's why it persists whilst we have still discovered so much about the universe.

If only Christopher Hitchens hadn't also been a smug pompous git... I have no problems with his atheism at all though - just the fact he was often obnoxious and a tool.

But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.

That is profoundly shitty. It's like blaming modern Germans for Hitler. How the f is my mother in law in any way related to Torquemada? That quote shows utter ignorance of history and humanity, and a wilful desire to divide people and create hate.

vickypea - Member
This "religion is the cause of all wars" thing is becoming something of an easy excuse for not looking into the true causes of war, which I think are power and greed, amongst other things. It's almost being used by some atheists to excuse themselves of any responsibility for current unrest in the world.

Agreed. It's lazy and convenient for many to believe this - but the more often something is said the more people believe
it...

But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.
That is profoundly shitty. It's like blaming modern Germans for Hitler. How the f is my mother in law in any way related to Torquemada? That quote shows utter ignorance of history and humanity, and a wilful desire to divide people and create hate.

But, you know her better than me... 😉

I've seen an awful lot of lightning flashes since this thread started, I'm guessing a few of you non believers have been 'struck down with great vengeance and furious anger'

You can keep your science and 'facts', I'm worshipping at the 26 inch alter for eternity.

If only Christopher Hitchens hadn't also been a smug pompous git... I have no problems with his atheism at all though - just the fact he was often obnoxious and a tool.

Attention whore, just like Dawkins. Also a bit like the religious zealots who can't concede that others' points of view just may be valid as their own.

I didn't like Hitchens' political shifts in later life but he remains a superb writer. Elton John's tribute song to Mother Theresa: Sandals in the Bin

Attention whore, just like Dawkins.

Yeah! Finding you've got a public platform by your own efforts and speaking up for what you see as the truth should be left to the talentless professionals.

The Pope, maybe. Or that American nutjob Palin perhaps. 🙄

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04jj3jj ]Here you go[/url]

I heard this on the radio the other day and it seems relevant; some people arguing that wars are not just due to religion and religion is responsible for lots of good things as well.

Nice selective quote Woppit. Totally missing the point about intolerance. By all means express your views but acknowledge that others have a right to theirs too.

I actually think it is more likely that people will rebel against science than it will against religion. This is mainly because religion has the answer to the one big question, which science does not I.e. what happens after we die.

I am not religious at all but you could equally argue that science is partially responsible for many of the horrific things we have done to our fellow man over the years eg the atomic bomb, the V2 rocket, chemical warfare, biological warfare (Ebola conspiracy theory anyone?) etc etc.

Coyote - Member
Attention whore, just like Dawkins. Also a bit like the religious zealots who can't concede that others' points of view just may be valid as their own.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Amen!

I actually think it is more likely that people will rebel against science than it will against religion.

For all our sakes I hope not!

These threads attract people like a moth to a flame don't they,just like religion 🙂

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