None of this is rocket science i am just suprised more people dont get it?

Really? Have you talked to many people who aren’t your friends or in your bubble about politics?

I’ve got people on my FB feed (family members) saying ‘aw go easy on poor Boris’ cos he looks stressed. FFS.

I assume you are referring to me?

You assume incorrectly Cougar was responding to TheArtistFormallyKnownAsSTR

Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires

There’s an apocryphal story of Californian politics; a law to increases taxes to fund services for the poor was heavily defeated, including much of the poorer districts voting against the motion. On asking why the response was very much of the same idea “When I’m super rich, I don’t want to pay to help poor people”

Different mindset

There has actually been some good points on this thread with some thoughtful contributions

Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires

I’ve read this before and it certainly holds true for some voters in the UK.

To be honest though I think the reasons are a lot simpler.

Take a large population with a standard distribution of political views. Most will be broadly centrist. Now apply a media with an overwhelmingly right wing bias. Your bell curve now has a big slant to the right.

Now give people a binary choice via the FPTP electoral system and see what happens.

Its telling that Labour’s only recent electoral success only occurred when the media switched sides

Yep. The answer to so many of the big questions of our time is, depressingly and disturbingly, “Murdoch”.

I’ve always wondered why people vote DUP or Tory or read the Daily Wail.

I found this useful…..

To digress, the US did have developing socialist, communist and anarcho-syndicalist movements in the early C20th but they were brutally crushed (Joe Hill etc), with the assistance of the mafia, by government agents. I once chatted with a US truck driver who was shooting ‘the land of the free’ line etc and I explained the working conditions, dress, hours and pay of French (this was during the ‘liberty fries’ moment) truck drivers. He would not believe me.

 I don’t think causing excess deaths is Tory ideology. 

Hmm.

The deliberate destruction of working class communities and the creation of an underclass, the demonisation of those forced to live on benefits, the targetting of the disabled and the subsequent rise in deaths and suicides etc.

Are those who voted for these policies equally as responsible for those deaths as the politicians who came up with them?

I would say so.

I’ve no idea why folk vote tory, but then I’ve no idea why anyone wants to watch american football, build lego, ride a motorbike, or eat anchovies.

I do however realise that some people are different to me, and so understand because of this. 🙂

It is considered absolutely fine, and indeed normal, to be as offensive as you want about ‘tories’ or anyone who has voted for the Conservative party on this forum. I have reported posts in the past but gave up when I realised that it is so accepted that the moderators don’t consider it an issue. Visible moderators are posting on this thread, so have clearly read it all, yet all of the abusive posts remain.

Same with Brexit

Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum

Politics is very divisive isn’t it?

Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum

Clearly an oversimplification. Some brexiters are high-functioning sociopaths.

I’m old, rich, public school educated. I’m never likely to vote Tory. Their policies of ‘look after yourself’, ‘I’m alright Jack’ austerity will/have already impacted my life negatively. Personally I can perfectly well afford all the things they think the government should not pay for, but I don’t like walking past beggars and the homeless whenever I go into town, I don’t like knowing that millions of people are living in cold, mouldy, sub-standard accommodation, I don’t like knowing that we are missing out on huge amounts of talent because if you are poor you can’t afford a decent education, I don’t like having to give thousands every year to food banks because millions in the UK live in poverty. The flip side of that is that if you vote Tory it implies, in my mind at least, you are fine with all those things, because they are all the direct result of the policies you chose to vote for. Tory voters, you own that.

Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum

or they looked beyond the nonsense and realised the EU in its current form is not workable.

Politics is very divisive isn’t it?

Yep, and Social Media, and the manipulation of Social Media especially has made it more so than ever.

We’ve turned a nuanced question into a really simple Good v Evil, Us v Them thing, when it really isn’t.

If they’re working class it’s down to gullibility. They actually believe the drivel that falls from their master’s lips 🤣. If they’re middle or upper class it’s to keep themselves in the luxury lifestyle they’re accustomed to & sod everyone else 😐

I’m never likely to vote Tory. Their policies of ‘look after yourself’, ‘I’m alright Jack’ austerity will/have already impacted my life negatively. Personally I can perfectly well afford all the things they think the government should not pay for, but I don’t like walking past beggars and the homeless whenever I go into town, I don’t like knowing that millions of people are living in cold, mouldy, sub-standard accommodation, I don’t like knowing that we are missing out on huge amounts of talent because if you are poor you can’t afford a decent education, I don’t like having to give thousands every year to food banks because millions in the UK live in poverty. The flip side of that is that if you vote Tory it implies, in my mind at least, you are fine with all those things, because they are all the direct result of the policies you chose to vote for. Tory voters, you own that.

This ^^^^^^^^

Very much this.

Hmm interesting responses. Especially about the working class male feeling ‘weak’ by getting ‘help’ through voting Labour, totally flying in the face that the rich would never vote against their own interests and spend vast amounts on having people elected that give them all the help they can take.

The ghost of Jeremy Corbyn still seems to haunt any political thread. As someone who never voted, but voted for his manifesto (and will probably not vote for a mainstream party again), I am rather disillusioned with our ‘democracy’. For once, I saw a manifesto that promised to solve many of the ills of modern Britain: reverse the abject failure of privatisation, to propose land reform (and take it away from a ruling class that has lorded over us for almost a thousand years, having stolen it from us in the first place), to acknowledge the climate emergency and build a sustainable Britain, etc. etc. To see every single media institution, form the Mail to the BBC to the Guardian, undertake arguably the most spectacular defamation of character in the history of British politics, followed by the right of Labour party openly declare they’d rather see the Tories take power than the democratically elected leader of the Labour Party, well, let’s just say it was rather disappointing.

For me, a good anecdote of the English working class is this: I was once on a train – the train was absolutely packed. No seats anywhere at all. Every stop the more people pushed into the carriages. At one stop, 3 women got on. They had tickets but the tickets were double-booked. Once they realised that, they complained loudly about it for a good twenty minutes – ‘we’ve paid for these tickets’, ‘a bloody disgrace’, ‘this countries awful’, ‘we’re going to have to stand all the way to Leeds’ etc. A young french couple, seeing their distress, kindly offered to give them their seats. To which the women replied’ no you’re alright’.

That to me sums up this country up politically.

Also if no one voted Tory we would have a left leaning social state a sort of Putin light

You need 2 diametrically opposed ideals for a sensible middle ground but as I’ve said before modern news and the way we consume information has now rendered it into sound bite policies and political decisions.

Each “bite” designed to appeal the far fringe of the party whilst not alienating the more center of their demographic. Hence no centre leaders jeremy n bojo.

Hopefully starmer and who ever supersedes bojo are less on the fringes of normal.

Politics isn’t binary.

And if someone votes Tory they’re not a ****. This is soundbite trolling

Theres been some exceptional threads on STW in the past.

This is not one of them.

And if someone votes Tory they’re not a ****

We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.

Well done.

I’m sure that helped change his views. Give your self a round of applause.

Her.

No one who steals money of a disabled person is welcome at our house. Sorry about that.

disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs

Always embarasses me that MrsMC, who has a much better job than me, had her allowance increased when hers was reviewed under that scheme. She appears to be the only one in the country.

Also if no one voted Tory we would have a left leaning social state a sort of Putin light

Not sure Putin is the right example to use there, if anything the goal of the tory supporting authoritarians is to turn the country into putin style state.

We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.

MP, conservative party member, or just someone who voted conservative?

Same with Brexit

Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum

No, just living off of faith.

Same with Brexit

Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum

Are we still hiding behind this straw-man lie four years after the referendum? There was a two thousand page thread about it, do you really need it explaining and debunking again?

And if someone votes Tory they’re not a ****. This is soundbite trolling

Theres been some exceptional threads on STW in the past.

This is not one of them.

I’m not proud of my current views.
Hate is not an emotion I am usually happy to entertain.

However.

Appeasement hasn’t worked.
Being reasonable has failed.
Facts are ignored.
The concept of truth and accountability in politics is history.

I am no longer prepared to be reasonable to people who vote Tory.
Mainly because of policies deliberately targetting the disabled and the most vulnerable members of society.
People have died because of this.
If you voted Tory, you are responsible for those deaths.
You are responsible for that suffering.

The underfunding of the NHS, the way C19 has been handled and the Cummings affair have pushed me over the edge.

No more appeasement.
No more trying to be reasonable.

Defining evil is not easy.
But it’s hard to argue that lining your own pockets whilst watching others suffer and die comes close.
And fundamentally, that’s what Tory voters have done.

And that is why, at the moment, I hate them.

Thanks for listening.

Duncancallum: Think what you want as we are still allowed opinions but soundbite trolling?, nope I’m perfectly entitled to call a Tory whatever I consider fair, whether that’s face to face or on a forum

If steptoe had stood down and let Keir take over before the election things may have been different, he did not and got their arse handed to them

The left wing approach can end up costing lots of money and tax, and being very inefficient.

And yet you look at the cost of the US (right wing) and UK (left wing) health services and the stats are totally unambiguous, the socialist model is far more efficient in terms of cost per person or per operation.

We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.

That’s nothing, I’ve been at parties in the past where anyone who had a job was seen as a corporate sellout or a collaborator with the fascist state 🙂

And yet you look at the cost of the US (right wing) and UK (left wing) health services and the stats are totally unambiguous, the socialist model is far more efficient in terms of cost per person or per operation.

Are we allowed to laugh about these things?

https://chaser.com.au/world/american-paying-10000-day-for-respirator-just-glad-hes-not-living-in-a-socialist-hell-like-norway/

Are we still hiding behind this straw-man lie four years after the referendum? There was a two thousand page thread about it, do you really need it explaining and debunking again?

I’m not sure what you’re saying. I’ve been called a thick racist for voting for brexit. Maybe I’m confusing this (slightly more rational) forum with some of the idiots encountered on Facebook. Apologies if so. I’m not reading the brexit thread again

Appeasement hasn’t worked.
Being reasonable has failed.
Facts are ignored.
The concept of truth and accountability in politics is history.

I am no longer prepared to be reasonable to people who vote Tory.
Mainly because of policies deliberately targetting the disabled and the most vulnerable members of society.
People have died because of this.
If you voted Tory, you are responsible for those deaths.
You are responsible for that suffering.

The underfunding of the NHS, the way C19 has been handled and the Cummings affair have pushed me over the edge.

No more appeasement.
No more trying to be reasonable.

Defining evil is not easy.
But it’s hard to argue that lining your own pockets whilst watching others suffer and die comes close.
And fundamentally, that’s what Tory voters have done.

And that is why, at the moment, I hate them.

Wow

Perfectly true tho

Tories and their voters have blood on their hands from policies that impoverished people by design

I’ve been called a thick racist for voting for brexit

That is unfair as Brexiters are not necessarily both thick and racist, they could be just one of those things.

But surely that could be said for all the voters of both parties because I bet lives have been lost due to decisions from all governments.

Tories and their voters have blood on their hands from policies that impoverished people by design

Ermmmmm, given that UK politics is a 2 party system are you saying that everyone that votes Labour also supported the Iraq war? Is every lefty as complicit in the abuses at Abu Ghraib as every Tory is complicit in police tactics during the miners strike?

Or is it not possible to vote for a party based on supporting the broad brush strokes of their manifesto and ideology rather than nuances and poorly implemented parts?

Ermmmmm, given that UK politics is a 2 party system are you saying that everyone that votes Labour also supported the Iraq war?

AFAIK invading Iraq wasn’t in their manifesto – I might be wrong though as I didn’t read it.

Wow

not really. They tories are ****

May not have been in their Manifesto it was something that Labour chose to do so a per the rest of this thread that tarring by assocation then it would be correct to assume that you do also have blood on your hands. Although not it was the Tories that set it up, I think it was Tony Blair that massively increased the PFI in the NHS. Whether that was for different reasons or not I believe all parties have made errors but I dont believe that either side of voters actually goes out with the purpose to deliberately put others in the positions mentioned above. I maybe naive though so apologies if so

AFAIK invading Iraq wasn’t in their manifesto – I might be wrong though as I didn’t read it.

Neither was violence against miners in the Tory’s.

My point is that there are plenty of ideological reasons people vote one way or the other that aren’t implying support for any particular policy.

If you wanted to you could draw up a really long list of actions/inaction by any party that paint them in a poor light.

not really. They tories are ****

Either I’m lacking imagination or there’s no 4 letter word that makes that sentence syntactically correct.

Or should we just blame Thatcher for that too?