Drag that evil child killer up from the cells to hear the judge pass sentence.
Driving along yesterday listening to what these ##### did to that poor lad and then she refused to come to come to the court room.

Pi## well and truly boiled.

It is not often you hear of someone doing something quite so evil.

They don’t because it isn’t the Roman Circus, no matter how appalling crime.

They don’t because it isn’t the Roman Circus, no matter how appalling crime.

Maybe it needs to be. Quite happy to torture and murder but suddenly decency and respect has to be given for the poor wee scone that doesn’t want to hear they’re punishment for the exceedingly poor decisions they made?

I think when you’ve committed the atrocities that pair did, sympathy for them goes out the window and a bloody big hole to kick them down needs to be dug

I would imagine the prison service may have their work cut out making sure that those two see out their sentences, and she must know it.

Luckily our justice system is not based on emotion, however flawed that makes it look at times.

I see Boris is spouting that he wants the people who let this happen held to account. Let’s start with the government that has cut back family support services, cut the already struggling children’s services to the bone with 10 years of austerity and seen hundreds of social workers leave the job due to the resulting pressures.

I think when you’ve committed the atrocities that pair did, sympathy for them goes out the window and a bloody big hole to kick them down needs to be dug

It’s not about sympathy, it’s about right and wrong and, much as I would happily condemn them to the Roaring Bull, our justice system is not based on vengeance. For the better, IMHO.

It’s not about vengeance for me, it’s just having her stand in the dock and listen to the judge summing her crimes up then telling her she won’t be free for 29 years,not hearing it from a court employee.

and if she stood there smirking?  How would we all have felt then? Achieves nothing.

Have to wonder why this one didn’t go down for a whole life order, realistically we could see her out at 60 and of no use whatsoever to society, pure evil without an ounce of guilt.

I’m happy for no one to see either of them outside their cells ever again, personally. Let them both hide away. And stay there.

Let’s start with the government that has cut back family support services, cut the already struggling children’s services to the bone with 10 years of austerity and seen hundreds of social workers leave the job due to the resulting pressures.

And cut back community policing.

I believe the jury asked the judge to observe a minute silence after the verdict yesterday and it was granted and observed. Very rare apparently but I hope they were both deafened by the silence. And I hope they have a torrid, miserable time every day they are inside.

And I hope they have a torrid, miserable time every day they are inside.

I’d rather they came to an awareness of the enormity of their crimes and then had to cope with that. You seem to suggest that they should be on the end of abuse and torment from others which is a bit too much “eye for an eye” for me.

I’d rather they came to an awareness of the enormity of their crimes and then had to cope with that. You seem to suggest that they should be on the end of abuse and torment from others which is a bit too much “eye for an eye” for me.

I agree. At times like these I think it’s important to put emotions aside and ask how it could have been prevented and how we can prevent it happening again. Whilst it might be emotionally satisfying for some, retribution isn’t going to achieve that.

At times like these I think it’s important to put emotions aside and ask how it could have been prevented and how we can prevent it happening again. 

Worryingly, whilst these horrors are thankfully rare, it’s not the first time.

They should not be released into the society again.

Welcome to HMP …. for your information everything you eat for the next 29 years will have spit, piss or shit in it.

I don’t think avoiding the court for sentencing will leave them unaware of how they are regarded.

Two other children now have to grow up with their parent in prison and become aware of exactly why that is, as well as dealing with any residual memory of what they may have witnessed. That’s the thing g that has affected me the most about this whole sad, awful case. Brought up a few deeply suppressed childhood memories I’d really rather not have resurfaced. Not quite to the level of what happened here but enough to know that they will likely be affected for their whole lives. Forget any feelings of what should happen to their mother and her partner, just spare a thought for them and the other family members who thought something wasn’t right but got short shrift from the authorities (for reasons that are almost as sad).

I would imagine the prison service may have their work cut out making sure that those two see out their sentences, and she must know it.

That’ll depend on which jail & which wing. They’ll probably end up on a wing full of child abusers. Obviously both going to be Cat A so not many prisons to go to, there’s only 8 Cat A jails.

Worryingly, whilst these horrors are thankfully rare, it’s not the first time.

The level of abuse in this case was severe, but child deaths by abuse or neglect run at about one a week in the UK.

I had a cry when I read this on the BBC website. The video from the police officer and the recording of the 999 was too much for.

The fact that her own children were treated well (by all accounts) mere meters away blows my mind. If they didn’t want to care for the boy then he would have been better off if he’d be put into care or his grandparents looking after him.

RIP little fella.

I had a cry when I read this on the BBC website

It was a grim case, reporters seemed upset by what they had sat through as well.

MrsMC has done 25 years at the sharp end of child protection. I don’t know how. Last year she switched to adoption work, at least she gets a majority of positive outcomes from it now. She deserves it.

These parents must be seriously damaged and I’m not sure if the severity of the sentences will do any good to them or deter people like that. It’s a nice distracting bit of moral outrage when kids are suffering from poverty, failed CV and migration policies.

In a decent society they would be publicy dealt with what they gave rather than the disgusting way we treat criminals better than they treat their victims. Revenge and punishment is what will stops comeplete scum continuig to do this.

Daily Wail much mattsccm?

We do not treat criminals well at all – prisons are vile places, very little rehab is invented, most people in jail are either traumatized or mentally ill.

there is no deterrent effect possible for situations like this – they will always be caught but there is no rational thought goes into crimes like this

In a decent society they would be publicy dealt with what they gave rather than the disgusting way we treat criminals better than they treat their victims. Revenge and punishment is what will stops comeplete scum continuig to do this.

Except for, you know, evidence… That it doesn’t in the slightest.

In a decent society they would be publicy dealt with what they gave rather than the disgusting way we treat criminals better than they treat their victims. Revenge and punishment is what will stops comeplete scum continuig to do this.

Oh dear.

Revenge and punishment is what will stops comeplete scum continuig to do this.

Definitely works in the US, with the death penalty and 3 strikes rules….oh no, hang on, that’s just a Daily Wail readers wet dream.

I’m all in favour of punishment, but very much with TJ on the current state of the prison system, it’s no use without rehab and treatment.

If we put 5 years worth of prison running costs into family support, vocational training, mental health and addiction services, social services, we’d be saving that amount from the justice budget in 10-15 years time, but that would require politicians with a plan to improve society and the country, not to ensure they got reelected in 4 years time.

MrsMC has done 25 years at the sharp end of child protection

Well done her.  I hope she got out without damage.  Its probably the toughest job around.  Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, get the blame for anything that goes wrong

If we put 5 years worth of prison running costs into family support, vocational training, mental health and addiction services, social services, we’d be saving that amount from the justice budget in 10-15 years time,

Also get the junkies and recreation drug users out of prison.  Save a fortune, and free up police  time

Prison does not work for junkies – everyone knows this

Well done her. I hope she got out without damage. Its probably the toughest job around. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, get the blame for anything that goes wrong

thanks TJ – the damage comes out in odd ways

If we put 5 years worth of prison running costs into family support, vocational training, mental health and addiction services, social services, we’d be saving that amount from the justice budget in 10-15 years time

Should be doable seeing as prison (new) officers salaries were cut a few years ago.
24k for looking after these scum? Yeah, I’d love to.

we treat criminals better than they treat their victims

I think everyone who says this should spend a couple of nights in a jail to understand the reality

Stopping treating the symptoms and invest in prevention.

The cause of criminal issues in society are (imo) directly or indirectly related to poverty.

I agree that the parents must have been pretty damaged to do what they did. Probably so much so that they shouldn’t ever be allowed to be back in society.

Invest more in a system that helps and educates the poorest people in our society. Unfortunately it’s all too late for this case and I expect many more cases.

The organisation I work for investigates child abuse.
We have a lot of staff turnover due to the things folk have to read/see/hear

Revenge and punishment is what will stops comeplete scum continuig to do this.

It’s actually social services and the police that usually stop people doing this. There are just the odd horrific case like this and the Victoria Climbie one which slip past overworked, under-resourced authorities. And of course some individual case workers might not do their jobs properly (not inferring anything about this case).

Something tells me you’re a Tory voter. As above, there’s a case to be made that Conservative governments since 2010 have blood on their hands.

@sargey

Drag that evil child killer up from the cells to hear the judge pass sentence.

It’s not about vengeance for me, it’s just having her stand in the dock and listen to the judge summing her crimes up then telling her she won’t be free for 29 years,not hearing it from a court employee.

If someone really doesn’t want to move up / downstairs (or in the confined space of a lift) then its pretty risky to the officers to force them. That’s before the officers have to deal with being spat at, pissed on, etc. Its almost inevitable that had they forced her she’d just have shouted over the judge and then been forcefully removed anyway (exposing the officers to risk again). You can force her to be there but not to listen. The sentencing remarks aren’t really for her anyway, they are for the lawyers, the family and the journos. I doubt if you are the sort of person that beats a child to death that words of disapproval from a judge actually make any difference, but possibly disrupting their court and seeming to still have the power for 20 minutes as they fight to get you there and back probably does feed some inner psycho.

I doubt it was a court employee who go the job of explaining her sentence to her. That lovely job would fall to her solicitor – who no doubt the daily mail will complain next week got “thousands” on legal aid for representing her.

@argee

Have to wonder why this one didn’t go down for a whole life order,

Did you read the judge’s sentencing remarks?

Whole life orders only apply in very specific circumstances (the Judge could perhaps have spelt out why each does not apply):
– serial killers
– child murders involving abduction, sexual or sadistic motivation
– political / terrorist
– a second conviction for murder.

Only the ‘sadistic’ element could apply. The judge heard all the evidence and presumably concluded that it didn’t meet that standard. I think (but I’m reading between the lines) the Judge has separated out the actual killing from the cruelty leading up to it. I’m not sure that approach is right. If the Attorney General does intervene as suggested, the appeal court will consider that again. But I don’t think it will really make any difference, because:

realistically we could see her out at 60 and of no use whatsoever to society, pure evil without an ounce of guilt.

realistically we won’t. the parole board would need to be satisfied she’s no longer a risk to the public (which if she is still pure evil without an ounce of guilt they won’t). They’ll have >26 yrs of prison records plus psychiatric reports etc to consider too. I’d say the only way she’s getting out of prison alive is if she is judged physically too frail to be a risk to others – even then she’d be under supervision.

I suspect in reality the political outrage at the “sentences” is not so much hers (the case bore a lot of similarities to this one https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/liam-fee-toddler-murder-mother-beaten-abuse-rachel-fee-nyomi-fee-life-sentence-murder-fife-a7122316.html which whilst in a different jurisdiction actually resulted in shorter minimum periods in prison) but his because they are ignoring the fact he was found guilty of manslaughter not murder.