I mean the ones with a fully-sealed rim bed, with spokes screwed directly into the rim

Mavic still make some as factory-built wheels: I just got a set of Allroad S and dear God the pure joy of not having to install rim tape, however many times I change tyres. Plus they hold pressure way better than my previous set ups with skinny tires (700x32mm currently)

So why isn’t something like this more common? I realise threading rims may have drawbacks. But an alternative could surely be to flip the interface of j-bend spokes, so they hook onto the rim via a small hole, and the nipples then slot into the hub. That’d reduce rotational inertia, too

I’m no wheel engineer though, so probably missing something

Got them on all but one of my bikes.

like crank brothers?

or shimano’s old ones?

Not certain, but I’d guess the rim needed to be heavier to take the design.

Mavics execution of it was much better, but then tyres got better designed with tubeless in mind (not just UST) so the advantage seemed less.

Hu, nice, aside from the Crank Bros one’s looking rough

So that’s even more designs that haven’t taken off: is this because the entrenchment of the incumbent design is hard to fight, or is the incumbent design itself hard to beat?

the crank bros ones were a nice idea. essentially a really long alu nipple from the hub. but in reality were a bit rubbish, in part down to rubbish hubs.

the shimano wheels were heavy.

Why does everyone complain about rim tape all the time? If it’s that bad just use strips.

I’d rather have a cheap sacrificial nipple than a whole rim condemned because of one stripped nipped or spoke thread.

Plus there would be yet another standard in spoke and or hub to accommodate straight pull spokes.

I use light bicycle carbon rims. They can be ordered with sealed (UST) rim beds. No rim tape required and build with traditional spokes and nipples.

The only “downside” is that they take a bit longer to lace but that’s a one off effort.

Why does everyone complain about rim tape all the time? If it’s that bad just use strips.

My SS mtb wheels have been flawless with the same tape for over a year now and I’ve have similarly faff-free wheels in the past. Others have been a constant nightmare, so I’m always hesitant to ever pop a tyre off unless absolutely essential, which is just a bit s**t

I have some fancy Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex rim stips which turned out to be even worse than tape

I’d rather have a cheap sacrificial nipple than a whole rim condemned because of one stripped nipped or spoke thread.

Plus there would be yet another standard in spoke and or hub to accommodate straight pull spokes.

I agree with the former, and I also hate new standards

In this case though, I think a new standard could be justified, given that tape is essentially a way of adapting a rim design never intended to be air tight to be so, and it’s a ridiculously crude solution

The Mavic UST rims are just so much more sensible from a tubeless perspective

The Mavic UST rims are just so much more sensible from a tubeless perspective

Have you ever had the misfortune to build one .

More after 3 years down the line…try and change a spoke that’s snapped inside the nipple or a sheared nipple.

I use light bicycle carbon rims. They can be ordered with sealed (UST) rim beds. No rim tape required and build with traditional spokes and nipples.

Just looked at them, that’s a nice solution. I guess it avoids the precariousness of my rims (which would be written off by a crossthreaded spoke), but makes a nipple replacement difficult (prob still better than re-taping a rim though)

Have you ever had the misfortune to build one .

built 3 so far, can’t say I find them much different to be honest.

The Mavic UST rims are just so much more sensible from a tubeless perspective

Have you ever had the misfortune to build one.

I said from a tubeless perspective

Just bought 2 sets of E-Deemax with the new freehub without the plastic bush.

Its a great design IMHO. Snagged a MucOff rimstrip on the previous wheels and as they had milk, sticky patches as a trailside fix didn’t work and Tesa tape didn’t last long either.

Its a great solution to the UST issue.

Just looked at them, that’s a nice solution. I guess it avoids the precariousness of my rims (which would be written off by a crossthreaded spoke), but makes a nipple replacement difficult (prob still better than re-taping a rim though)

Replacing a nipple is more involved, but not difficult. Plus, you can do it without having to replace the rim tape.

Can’t remember the last time I needed to though.

but not difficult.

Can’t remember the last time I needed to though.

Well those two are probably related. When the time comes you’ll probably find the nipple cup and rim have become 1

I didn’t say they were difficult to build but they are quite a bit more time consuming. Up there with 80mm radial tt front wheels.

It’s very common for road wheels to use something similar. Campag/ Fulcrum have used their alternative version of the sealed rim bed for yonks, many top China brands do a version of feed the nipple through the valve hole with a magnet, and it’s not too hard to do when needed…but in reality most riders won’t be doing this often, or ever. Mavic are fairly unique with their ‘Fore’ threading of the rim material. It can’t be an easy process to manufacture as their wheels with that system can add 40% to the rrp vs the lower spec wheel with near identical rim/hub but standard spoke & nipple. Had many a Ksyrium with the fore system and they are bomb proof, they make truing the wheel an incredibly precise affair as its more direct.

Probably mostly weight id say. Not only do you need more material where the spokes join the rim but also a solid rim bed is quite heavy. Holes are really light!

It was heavier than anything the competition did (Mavic always quoted the weight without the inserts, so not the true weight) and that mostly means weaker or narrower or heavier, in a sector where everyone wants stronger or wider or lighter. And it adds complexity to the manufacturing so it added cost as well.

Agree that a solid bed is easier for tubeless but IMO it’s not worth a single one of the other downsides, nor any pickiness with nipples and spokes that stop you easily getting replacements. (J spokes and standard nipples are literally the only good option imo, they work perfectly and you cna get them in any decent bike shop in the world)

And tape is good, if done right. Especially for mtb now that rims are so wide so it’s possible to just tape the centre and therefore avoid any risk of the tape ever getting damaged when changing tyres.

@trail_rat I was talking about sealed rim bed light bicycle rims rather than Mavic. Pulling a nipple around the rim with a magnet and a bit of steel spoke on a rim is easy enough and like I say, how often do you need to replace a nipple?

Heavier, a bugger to repair or build, corrode for fun, unreliable.

All to get a sealed rim bed.

like I say, how often do you need to replace a nipple?

With these ones, regularly. Either when they seize (and take the rim with them) or corrode, and fall apart.

onzadog

Fair play but you must be playing down how hard that was…sounds like a right PITA. Hope you never snap a spoke or round of a nipple flat

Nah, added maybe half an hour to the lacing of each wheel.

I enjoy building my own wheels so sitting watching telly while getting them in place was no hardship.

Certainly not enough to put me off doing it on whatever my next set of wheels are.

I had a pair of these in 26″ flavour, back in the day. Much easier to set up tubeless, but not the lightest option either

I had the choice of sealed or drilled bed with my last rims, went for drilled without a moment’s hesitation. It’s not just the tease-it-in-with-a-magnet, which is irritating but one off at least (or, well, 64 off). And it’s not the added faff for fixing. It’s that you can’t put a nipple driver on them. Takes away the quickest and easiest way to do most of the wheel build, and threading spokes into nipples from the wrong side is a pain in the bum since you can’t push on the nipple from the outside to keep it in place. It’s also obviously one less way to undo the spoke in future if there’s any issues ie if you’ve been daft/optimistic/weight weenie enough to use alloy

But mostly it’s the spoke driver thing, adjustable depth spoke drivers are the absolute bollocks.

I agree with the OP, I loved the Deemax Pro I had a few years back, but they were 27.5 so moved them on with the bike when I sold it. Would happily have another set. Admittedly I didn’t ever have any issues with spokes.

Heavy, became out of favour in terms of widths offered pretty quickly, and the upsides they offered were, for many, offset by the downsides of building/repairing.

Tape works pretty well. Still think the old Bonty approach of a rim strip was best. Do they still do that?

how often do you need to replace a nipple?

Me personally….not so often.

Every time a customer came in with a Mavic wheel….I’d wince as I knew what was coming. Especially if it was winter and one of the old school locals had moved their good summer bike into their winter bike ….. And so the spoke cups were now one with the rim.