Rick, do you think the big boys spend less on r&d than SC?

Yet they can build a frame equally as complex as an SC, add components and sell a full bike for not much more than the SC frame.

Canyon, Boardman etc do it for even less.

State who you are talking about? Who are these “big boys”?

Canyon can be discounted straight away, you are comparing apples and oranges or don’t you understand the concept of direct selling?

Top line Specialized enduro frame which I would compare with a carbon nomad frame:

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Specialized/S-Works-Enduro-Carbon-26-Frame-2014/2N7F?gclid=CjgKEAjwt4-dBRCDnaTUn-mC_0oSJAC4Q6kGRvJln6AlzbM4u_9gDrW3WSYciI8hZ-KnSCBKt3B1xfD_BwE

More expensive than any SC frame bar a V10.

Interesting. Going back to the start, I do t see SC as a boutique brand these days, more like a small mainstream brand.i remember a friend getting one of the first Chameleons and it seemed pretty special compared to our Konas and similar. I think the boutique image came from a time when far Eastern made frames were seen as inferior compared to US made stuff. And yet the likes of Spesh jobbing out cheap, far eastern frames can build straight ones which is more than can said for Intense!

With regards to price, wha hasn’t been mentioned is that all frames are expensive. It wasn’t that long ago that a Heckler was less than a grand. When I was looking for a new frame (160mm frame) there event many frames in the £1,500 range…it pretty much came down to my a Rune or a Covert. The former being compatible to a SC in my eyes…like a VPP design, small company etc but a bit cheaper fir whatever reason.

I like the look of their bikes (I’ve had three Chameleons, all of which were great) but they’re a bit pricey for me. I also struggle with their sizing and short top tubes but they seem to have sorted that in their newest bikes. They also get really good reviews which is going to increase their sales and a high profile team with UK riders. Ultimately, they’re great looking bikes so I’m not surprised they’re popular….a good looking product with a good brand / image will always sell.

I don’t but I to the stereotypes because I see loads of Fives at trail centres too.

Doesn’t a Santa Cruz/Jungle bashing thread get rolled out every 6 months or so to no conclusion!?

Coz they are the Bollox! and I don’t own a Audi. Yet. 😉

Don’t get an Audi. Get a BMW. They are more boutique they also ride and handle better. They will cost you a bit more though.

Why isn’t there a string of previous owners on here telling us all about the problems they had with their frames, Jungle and SC? Isn’t that the normal pattern of these things?

When The Magnum ice cream was brought to market a core part of the marketing strategy was to be sure it cost at least twice as much as the competition. This ensured it was positioned as a luxury product and they sold in their millions, it was a little bit of luxury we could all afford. Marketing is like that and pricing and marketing go hand in hand. The fact that people complain at the price of Santa Cruz bikes will oddly have the effect of driving more sales in the target demographic, it’s the percieved exculsivity you’re buying as well as the actual product. They are nowhere near the size of Gaint, Specialized, Cannondale etc etc, I expect they make considerably more per unit than those companies because their marketing is excellent. Having said all that they are still the nuts and I’ll buy another when this one breaks. Mostly because they ride right, they look good and I’m shallow. Why Omega and not Timex, why iphone not nokia etc etc etc. You buy the package, brand, product and the lifestyle. Gaint, specialised and the rest dont have it. You can buy them anywhere.

😀
Which is what I said 2 pages ago – snob tax!

Not heard from Jungle about my bribe demo bike yet though.

it’s the perceived exclusivity you’re buying

That was the reason for the thread really. They’re sold as if they are exclusive, but they’re not exclusive, it’s like buying a Porsche, because you can afford it, and it feels a bit exclusive – then you drive to Tesco to see loads of other people have parked up in one.

I’d feel just a little bit gutted and die a little inside.

But they are exclusive as most people won’t drop the money. Yeah there are a few about but not that many.

Really?
Much more likely to see an SC or an Orange round here than a Canyon or Boardman.
Both common as muck, tbh.

😉

Tweed Valley wise, there’s loads of new Santa Cruzes around. It’s a bit odd, as the local shops don’t sell Santa Cruz – it’s Trek or Orange really.

I rarely see a Five about on the trails.

That was the reason for the thread really. They’re sold as if they are exclusive, but they’re not exclusive

Considering the numbers they sell, compared to the big brands, they are pretty exclusive.

I’ve just had a mental tot up, of the people I ride with on a regular basis & the others who pop in & out of the riding group, there isn’t one Santa Cruz & these are people who ride up at the famous Santa Cruz hot spot in the North Downs.

I imagine if you brand spotted at the start of a well used trail, they would be in a tiny minority overall. Is it because you notice them over the hoards of other brand bikes? I don’t know.

They plant the seed early on, newcomers see them and go how much? Go buy a Boardman and aspire to upgrade generating a sale once the saps saved enough hard earned ,they can actually be bought rather than waiting a quarter of a year to maybe a year ,and Tha fat middle aged desk jockey sees Steve peat is 40 and know that if they spend enough money they will be able to ride their wc frame down the woods like a true pro then complain about dogshit in bags on a forum with other true SC elites later that day

The fact they break too like every other bike can is overlooked and that never sees the light of day

I have a Santa Cruz,I’m not a big spender,well quite the opposite really,you never hear of “there’s a crack in my Santa Cruz frame” thread unlike most of the top brands,I didn’t buy the full bike,I built it up over time,they are a great bike to ride,I pondered cannyon and gitant trance before deciding for my superlight,the name Santa Cruz doesn’t mean much to me but the bike itself suits me down to the ground.

you never hear of “there’s a crack in my Santa Cruz frame” thread

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cracked-sc-trc-tallboy-carbon-frames

Look at all those unhappy owners…..

scotroutes – Member
Why isn’t there a string of previous owners on here telling us all about the problems they had with their frames, Jungle and SC? Isn’t that the normal pattern of these things?

Because Jungle / SC after sales are second to none in my experience, with only Hope Tech coming a close second.

Santa Cruz, Yeti, Intense, Pivot, Jones, Ibis etc are not “too expensive”, that’s a naive way to look at it. If they were overpriced compared with their desirability and quality they simply wouldn’t sell (particularly in countries like the UK where import duties inflate the price further. They are more expensive than some of the competition, but economics and psychology would state that the perceived satisfaction and enjoyment gained from having luxury/boutique bikes makes the buying cost seem reasonable (especially when available on interest-free monthly schemes which makes them accessible to the masses.)

In my local riding group of around 20 when we’re all out to play there are plenty of bikes in this category – Yeti 2, SC 2, Ibis 2, Jones 1, Whyte 2, as well as a lot of high end Specialized and Giants which both have main dealers in the town, and some of the guys riding steel HT’s such as Cotics and Genesis. It really doesn’t matter, you make your choice and you ride. Most riders wouldn’t swap there pride and joy for a Decathlon bike.

The only place I’ve seen lots of Santa Cruz’s is where the main dealer in that area sells them, e.g. Holmbury and Leith Hill in the Surrey Hills, and also at places like Glyncorrag / Afan where they have a demo/hire fleet of SC’s.