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  • Which E Bikes have got 700 watt hours ?
  • grannyjone
    Member

    Which 2019/2020 E Bikes have got 700 watt hours ?

    I’m particularly interested the in 2019 EBikes as the price is likely to be lower.
    I know the Levo has 700 watt hours but I’ve seen some Levo’s with only 500 Watt hours so I’m confused as to which one I need ?
    Is there any others ?

    Also is it worth buying second hand or is this too risky with E Bikes?
    I know I’m probably going to have to pay £5K

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Older Levo’s are 504 max (some came with 400). Newer ones, in bling spec, have 700, else otherwise 500. Same for kenevo’s. Older models can’t take a 700wh batteries either.

    Having just had to replace a battery out of warranty, I wouldn’t go SH unless the price was cheap enough to cover a new battery, circa £500, as well.

    What you need depends on where you ride, tire pressures, how much assistance etc, but I can’t imagine ever thinking ‘oh I wish I had less battery capacity…’

    grannyjone
    Member

    I know for a fact I need a 700 watt hour battery, In July I hired a Levo with 700 watt and thought I wouldn’t possibly want anything less.
    In 3 hours on turbo mode over 35 miles the battery was nearly dead.

    I was quite happy with its range but deffo would not have wanted anything less.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Tbh I rarely put mine in turbo, tend to flick between 30 and 60% assist modes, all tuneable in the app, and manage fine with my 504 battery. That said, I got the biggest battery available at the time, and would again if buying again, as you never know.

    You could always get a second battery be that a full one or, iirc, they do a smaller top up battery that mounts externally as a backup, but that might just be for the road bikes.

    Edit: oooft, maybe not a full spare, £800 for the 500wh, £1100 for the 700wh…

    Edit 2: the range extender is 378wh, mounts to the, newer, frames and is £500ish

    grannyjone
    Member

    I definitely want to go for the 700 watt. From my 3 days of hiring one I thought that Eco mode was pretty boring uphill (It didn’t feel much different to a regular MTB), Trail mode was Ok but Turbo was where the fun was.

    Just interested in which specific models of Specialized Levo have the 700 watt ?
    I keep searching and keep finding the ones which only have 500 watt. I don’t want to end up getting one of those only to find I have to limit myself too much all the time.

    Also any other bikes which have got the higher range, apart from Specialized ?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    The 2020 carbon ones all have the 700wh, save for the bottom spec one. All the 2019 ones do, save for the bottom 2 specced alloy ones and the lowest carbon one. basically everything more than £5.5k has it.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    OP – turbo mode on a 19 Levo may well be something different on a different motor and bike, so there may be merit in widening your search a bit.

    I have just got a 2020 Orbea Wild FS, the motor is 625wh and emtb mode is pretty much perfect. Range seems to be around 4 hours for fairly typical xc riding with a decent amount of hills.

    Just a note of caution given your posting history regarding maintenance issues.. Be really really sure that you’re prepared for the additional costs if you hammer an e-bike as much as you have your previous FS bike..!

    Also, you’re not meant to be running it in Turbo permanently. The great thing about the Levo is that you can set the amount of assistance and current limit for each mode as they’re not fixed; plus there’s the BLEvo app that allows you to do crazy stuff like control the assistance level based on your heart rate.

    grannyjone
    Member

    “Just a note of caution given your posting history regarding maintenance issues.. Be really really sure that you’re prepared for the additional costs if you hammer an e-bike as much as you have your previous FS bike..!”

    Oh I’m planning to hammer it a lot more than my previous FS bikes!
    Given how much faster, more fun and less effort these things are, I bet they’re addictive.
    Yes I’m getting prepared for the higher running costs. But I’ve got a lot more money in the bank now than 3 years ago. Also I have more bike mechanical knowledge than before, I used to know absolutely nothing but now I’ve got the basics.
    Also I don’t mind paying more money if it’s going to be worth it.

    I’m sure I’ll be getting some use out of that warranty as well.

    grannyjone
    Member

    Just out of interest, how much more do these cost to run compared to a regular FS bike ?

    Does the suspension need servicing more often ?
    That is my main cost at the moment – it’s one of those more complex jobs I’ve not learned yet and still have to pay someone to do it every 50 hours.

    Frame pivot bearings are my other main expense, as are bottom brackets.

    I assume the E Bikes have motor bearings instead of a bottom bracket ? How maintenance heavy are these ?

    How quickly does the drive train wear out compared to a regular FS ?

    I take it the battery and motor are usually under warranty so any problems with these should be covered for the first 2 years?

    “How quickly does the drive train wear out compared to a regular FS ?”

    If you’re running it in Turbo mode all the time (and you pedal hard) then you’re going to destroy chains, cassettes and chainrings at a hell of a rate. I’m just switching to Putoline was lube and rotating three chains to see if that helps.

    I’ve been commuting (full turbo) and MTBing (probably 80% off, 10% turbo) on a Levo since December. Changing the cassette and chain when they start misbehaving and that’s been at around 600 miles. Bear in mind that we have much more drivetrain friendly mud then most places, as it’s chalk and clay, not sandy at all and the turbo mileage has been mostly on tarmac.

    Premier Icon argee
    Subscriber

    You can look at bikes that have ebike specific drivetrains, these are made to take more torque that ebikes transmit through the drivetrain, other maintenance shouldn’t be too much on an ebike, the motor should be able to take more than you’ll ever put through it, shocks should be able to take the additional weight easily and the rest don’t tend to have issues, only the battery will need replacing once it hits its life.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Just out of interest, how much more do these cost to run compared to a regular FS bike ?

    Mine seems to get through a fair few headset bearings, dunno why, as although the bike is heavier, I’m not exactly a biffer.

    Does the suspension need servicing more often ?

    That is my main cost at the moment – it’s one of those more complex jobs I’ve not learned yet and still have to pay someone to do it every 50 hours.

    Not IME

    Frame pivot bearings are my other main expense, as are bottom brackets.

    I assume the E Bikes have motor bearings instead of a bottom bracket ? How maintenance heavy are these ?

    When the bearings go it’s new motor time. Mine went after 20ish months, replaced under warranty, the new motor had a new 2 year warranty.

    How quickly does the drive train wear out compared to a regular FS ?

    I’m running mine into the ground (XO1 11 speed), still on original cassette and chain, works fine still, 3 years and 3000 miles later. Probably 2/3 of that commuting. I always back right off the power when shifting though.

    I take it the battery and motor are usually under warranty so any problems with these should be covered for the first 2 years?

    Yeah, then if anything is replaced, you get a new warranty (with Specialized anyway, not sure about others)

    “You can look at bikes that have ebike specific drivetrains, these are made to take more torque that ebikes transmit through the drivetrain”

    I’ve looked at these e-specific things and the cassettes are so much more expensive than SLX 11-speed (my current cassette) of choice that the economics don’t stack up. (And yes, I know that normal bikes wear out the alloy sprockets on Shimano cassettes making the more expensive all steel SRAM ones actually better value – but on an ebike using turbo I wear out the smaller sprockets faster).

    kaiser
    Member

    They really are so much fun aren’t they …but 2 things put me off ..the expenses involved and the fact that it might make me less likely to suffer on the climbs hence less fitness.
    I wonder what the realistic lifespan of a £5K + bike is likely to be ?

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    I thought anything over 250 watts is classified as a motorbike.

    Won’t this limit where you can ride it?

    grannyjone
    Member

    Thanks for the replies. So based on that, it sounds like I’ll get much more costs on the drive train compared to a normal bike, but no bottom bracket costs, yet everything else not much different ?

    (That’s unless the Motor and battery fail outside the warranty period)

    That does not sound too bad – Apart from that post above which mentioned replacing the entire drive train every 600 miles with only Turbo on tarmac and riding in an area with no sand!!! that sounds appalling! I could do 600 miles in no time on an EMTB, the way I ride them: Turbo all the time, pedalling hard as well, and hardly ever stopping apart from the gates. I ride in the south pennines most of the time so there can be a lot of mud and there is sand. Most of the rocks are sandstone I think.

    Having said that I’m not likely to try to turbo it uphill if the trail is wet and muddy, when I hired one it was during a dry and dusty week in July and it was the most fun I’ve had all year. What a blast it was, beats uplift any day!

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    I thought anything over 250 watts is classified as a motorbike.

    That’s the power of the motor, (kilo)watt hours refers to the capacity of the battery.

    I wonder what the realistic lifespan of a £5K + bike is likely to be ?

    Mines 3 years old, with 12 months warranty left on the motor, and 24 on the battery. I intend to get them checked just before the warranty expires each time, so any issues can be solved, then extend the warranty further.

    grannyjone
    Member

    I read that it is impossible to increase the assistance speed restriction of an E-Mountain Bike without voiding the warranty on the motor. Is this true ?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Is this true ?

    Yes. Also makes it illegal to use anywhere but private land.

    escrs
    Member

    Not sure if anyone has posted this but here is the battery power for the following

    2019 Levo carbon comp 500wh
    2019 Levo Expert 700wh
    2019 Levo S-works 700wh

    2020 Levo alloy Comp 700wh (no carbon comp in the UK)
    2020 Levo Expert 700wh
    2020 Levo S-works 700wh

    As for prices between 2019 and 2020 bikes, it will depend on the dealer you use, i paid 1k less than the rrp for my 2020 Levo

    Another thing to look for is a dealer with great customer reviews with regards to warranty work, some dealers take weeks to fix issues, others offer a same day service for no extra charge

    Join the Levo & Kenevo Facebook group and ask a few questions on there

    Yeah, then if anything is replaced, you get a new warranty (with Specialized anyway, not sure about others)

    I would ask Specialized for that in writing as Ive been told any motor or battery replaced under warranty will only have a warranty for 2 years from the bike’s original purchase date, that is from a dealer who is highly regarded in the Levo world

    So if the motor is replaced under warranty 20 months after the bike’s purchase date you will only get 4 months warranty on the new motor (although Specialized will be sympathetic if the new motor died within a couple of months of the bike’s warranty running out)

    The reason behind this is that if you got a new 2 year warranty on every replaced motor then every 22ish months people would be trying to break their motors (jet washing the motor to make it fail) to get a new one with a new 2 year warranty

    Another dealer told me Bosch used to offer a brand new 2 year warranty on any replaced motor but even they have now stopped this due to the above reasons

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    2019 Focus Jam2 and Sam2 are 378 internal and 378 external and can be found heavily discounted if you look around.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    So if the motor is replaced under warranty 20 months after the bike’s purchase date you will only get 4 months warranty on the new motor (although Specialized will be sympathetic if the new motor died within a couple of months of the bike’s warranty running out)

    That was my understanding, but the mechanic at the concept store reassured me otherwise.

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    Another dealer told me Bosch used to offer a brand new 2 year warranty on any replaced motor but even they have now stopped this due to the above reasons

    Well that sucks, especially as there is a serious design flaw with the Bosch Motor. Which dealer told you that?

    escrs
    Member

    A mechanic saying one thing and what the company policy is are two very different things, i would deffo ask Specialized UK for conformation that every motor replaced under warranty comes with a new 2 year warranty

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    A mechanic saying one thing and what the company policy is are two very different things, i would deffo ask Specialized UK for conformation that every motor replaced under warranty comes with a new 2 year warranty

    I’m not too worried. If policy changes I’m in no worse a position than I was expecting.

    grannyjone
    Member

    How much is the new motor to replace ?
    How long do they usually last ?
    Can you wash an Ebike with the hosepipe or do you have to be extra careful ?

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    £650-900 depending on brand.
    How long’s a piece of string? My Bosch motors have lasted 350miles, 950 miles and 700odd (so far).
    Hosepipe is OK as long as you don’t spray the motor bearings directly.

    grannyjone
    Member

    350 and 900 ?! That’s not much at all. I’d better make sure I get a new one with a good warranty then, and better not start derestricting it, as tempting as it is.

    I do 3800 miles a year on my regular full suss. I reckon I’d double that with an 700 watt Ebike knocking out 35 milers multiple times a week. By that rate I’d go through 20 motors in 2 years!!

    escrs
    Member

    Dealer is a friend at Gabriel Cycles near Portsmouth (he has a Bosch motor on his bike)

    As for motor replacement costs there are a few options when it comes to Bosch and Specialized (Brose motor)

    Performance Bearings can strip and rebuild them with new bearings etc.. for around £250
    Specialized will sell you a new motor in exchange for your old one for around £450
    Or you can buy one outright for around £800

    Premier Icon steveh
    Subscriber

    Destriction does impact on warranty and should be much harder to do and easier to check going forward as suppliers have been made to tighten up on it

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    Rear tyres on the work e-bikes tend to wear more quickly, down to the blue kevlar belt on one Marathon Plus in under a season of use. (Allegedly an e-bike ready version too).

    Premier Icon richardthird
    Subscriber

    “2019 Focus Jam2 and Sam2 are 378 internal and 378 external and can be found heavily discounted if you look around.”

    How are these regarded, anyone here got one?

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    My Bosch motors have lasted 350miles, 950 miles and 700odd

    That’s terrible! Is this the wider experience of ebike riders?

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    That’s terrible! Is this the wider experience of ebike riders?

    Not mine, I got 2500+ out of my first (Specialized) one.

Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)

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