When BIG things close pass

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  • When BIG things close pass
  • I had a jersey with a missing sleeve thanks to a pass like that.

    The driver all but shit himself when he realised and spent about half an hour apologising and asking what he could do to make it right. This was in france, so a whole different set of social rules.

    i.e. cyclists aren’t scum.

    I suspect he’d have called the police himself if he’d had access to a phone.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Daffy – Rule 168?

    Basically, don’t accelerate if being overtaken, slow down to facilitate the overtake.

    The balance here is in determining if the overtake started despite the oncoming traffic. I guess Debz was there, the rest of us can only speculate.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    No offence Daffy, but you’re talking shit. He shouldn’t have started the overtaking move. Full stop. No excuses.

    please don’t misunderstand, I agree completely, but you’re completely missing the point of what I’m saying.

    Yes – the overtake shouldn’t have happened, but once you’re in the middle of it (i.e. as soon as you’re aware of the overtake and the oncoming car, backing off or breaking would’ve made it MUCH safer for YOU. After all, it’s your life in danger and you do have a say in how this plays out. Simply being in the right won’t keep you alive when Muppets do stupid things, but getting out of their way can certainly help.

    I’m stating this from personal experience of numerous similar events – I.E.
    Truck overtaking on a downhill lefthander meaning the trailer is going to take a narrower line to the cab. Backing out is the only option to getting squeezed, so if you see it starting to happen, you’ve gotta react from a self-preservation point of view rather than keeping the hammer down to prove that an overtake wasn’t really necessary.

    I’m genuinely glad you’re okay and am not looking for a fight, but based on what you’ve posted and upon how I used to react on the bike when commuting, I think we might (at one time) have been of similar mindsets when being pointlessly overtaken by something/someone.

    bigyinn
    Member

    Far better to abort an overtake than try and push it through. Thats how people end up dead.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    I’ve tweeted to Hants police road unit, so will see if I get a reply on there.

    Are you taking bets? 🙂

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    backing off or breaking would’ve made it MUCH safer for YOU.

    It couldn’t have been any safer for me than I made it. I’m here, typing this and not squashed under a massive trailer. It’s that binary.

    Maybe you’re not, but there always seems to be someone who comes out with “oh could’ve done this better than you” on these threads. And yep, there are definitely times when I’ve taken the risky option. But not this one.

    Are you taking bets?
    A mysterious ‘like’ from “Bez” 😉

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    So I can come back in a week or so and check my bet is safe 😉

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    Daffy wrote:

    Yes – the overtake shouldn’t have happened, but once you’re in the middle of it (i.e. as soon as you’re aware of the overtake and the oncoming car, backing off or breaking would’ve made it MUCH safer for YOU.

    The thing is, if I understand correctly that’s what he did do. Meanwhile the comment of yours I previously highlighted (along with a couple of other little bits of your previous post) do seem to be excusing the driver to some extent. According to Debz the situation was apparent before the overtaking move started, though the driver should have backed off when he realised as I presume he did at some point. If as suggested by some it was difficult for him to back off once he’d started, then that’s another reason he should never have started overtaking.

    It wasn’t just a mistake, nor a momentary lapse, it was a conscious decision to take a chance on the overtake. Part of the whole “must overtake cyclists” thing, which seems to be the justification the two caravan towers I mentioned up there – they couldn’t give me enough space because staying behind wasn’t an option. I’d say those attitudes boil my piss, but that’s trivialising it. It does boil my piss that the justice system in this country doesn’t seem to consider such things to be dangerous driving because it’s not far below the standard of an average driver.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    According to Debz

    Where? 👿

    But yeah, spot on. ” it was a conscious decision to take a chance on the overtake.”
    Also, I would’ve been gone in less than a minute – turning left (if I hadn’t chased him). I’m going the back way home tonight. Much more pleasant.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Member

    DezB wrote:

    Where?

    😆 I assumed that was your new online dating alter ego

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Part of the whole “must overtake cyclists” thing, which seems to be the justification the two caravan towers I mentioned up there – they couldn’t give me enough space because staying behind wasn’t an option

    My perception is that as soon as a driver sees a cyclist there’s an assumption that they are going slow and so must be passed at the earliest opportunity, no matter what. All further evaluation disappears, particularly planning 2-3 moves ahead, there is only one goal and that’s to get in front.

    Worst case scenario, we all know – that’s when you get overtakes like this, left hooks, and so on. But the number of times someone has ‘dodgy’ overtaken me (which i measure by whether it gets a ‘Jeez!’ response, vs actually shit myself) only to then pull into a road or a drive 100 yards later, just proves to me like Pavlov’s dog – see a cyclist, get past asap.

    IHN
    Member

    It’s a tractor probably can only do 20mph.

    It’s not 1983 any more. A modern tractor is good for 40mph+, even towing.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    That one wasn’t – as I said, I followed for a couple of miles, even with a tailwind I’m certainly not gonna be a 40mph rider! The (silenced) video will hopefully go up tonight. Expect more judgement!

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    Apologies, I must have miss-read.

    Premier Icon garage-dweller
    Subscriber

    My perception is that as soon as a driver sees a cyclist or frankly any vehicle driving at close to a legal or safe speed
    for the road conditions
    there’s an assumption that they are going slow and so must be passed at the earliest opportunity, no matter what. All further evaluation disappears, particularly planning 2-3 moves ahead, there is only one goal and that’s to get in front.

    Ftfy!

    Lost count of the number of times cars and vans have attempted to push past me in the car at inappropriate places at highly illegal speeds after tailgating, swerving from side to side and/or gesticulating this week. I’m pretty good (if you’ll excuse the terminology) at sitting bang on the limit where conditions permit and I’m not deliberately obstructive. The number of people who have 28 Days Later style rage from not going exactly as fast as they like is quite alarming.

    Although I will concede that people are EVEN worse if a bike is involved.

    Premier Icon garage-dweller
    Subscriber

    DezB

    I sympathise. I’ve been in that spot with an HGV before. The difference there was he could have used a whole empty lane of a dual carriageway to pass but still nearly flattened me with the trailer. That was over five years ago and i still cringe to think of what might have been.

    Premier Icon stwhannah
    Subscriber

    Almost an identical no room to overtake with oncoming car scenario had me with a fluttering heart. Bez did his best to work out how close it was to my hands:

    How close?

    he reckoned 30-34cm.

    actual video is in this review

    I didn’t report it to the police, but I did contact the van hire company who were very contrite.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Buuuump!
    Bloody tractor again on the way home!
    So this roadie goes past me and we start the downhill, which does a complete 90deg bend in about 100metres. So I’m probably close to 30mph, as I’m going to take the left turn, which is actually straight on, if that makes sense. So Mr Farmer thinks this is a wise place to overtake. I have to almost go off the road, not knowing how long his trailer is. Check the last pic, how did he not clip that car? Don’t think it was the same tractor, but need to find the old video


    Premier Icon twistedpencil
    Subscriber

    Shiiiiiiite! That car must have properly shat themselves!

    Mister P
    Member

    MUST PASS CYCLIST. You can hear it in people’s heads when they perform overtakes like that. They aren’t looking any further down the road than your back wheel, chewing the steering wheel with impatience. I honestly think part of your driving lessons should involve being on a bike whilst vehicles are driven closely to you.

    lowey
    Member

    Good luck reporting it. I’ve reported to GMP a close pass, drivers mirror actually glanced me. Filled out the initial form, got an automated response email then NOTHING. I even had video evidence.

    They are just too stretched at the moment I think.

    tetrode
    Member

    I’m very glad that I spent a good few years commuting by bike before even getting my driving licence. It is hilarious how up in arms some drivers get when they get stuck behind a cyclist because in the grand scheme of things they’re adding less than 30 seconds to their journey but they get so unbelievably impatient. I am totally happy to trundle along behind a bike until there’s ample room and time to overtake. Sometimes it’s good to slow down every now and then but unfortunately it seems that there is a large portion of drivers who think they’re entitled to the whole road 100% of the time and nothing is allowed to get in their way.

    Also, I commute by bike in Bristol which is madness for traffic, and I constantly get drivers overtaking me in 20mph zones while I’m doing 20, only for me to inevitably catch up with them again at the next set of lights. Absolutely pointless.

    scud
    Member

    Had an interesting one at the weekend that required a change of shorts, i was going over the local common which to keep the wild ponies on has a cattle grid at either end, as i am going over the cattle grid which is less than two cars wide, i was overtaken by a four ton truck, so that his wing mirror literally went over my head, thankfully i was on the drops otherwise i think he would actually have hit the back of my head.

    Haulage company owner just thought it was quite funny until i said i’d report to Police and i had footage, then he was full of apologies and promises to reprimand driver

    superfli
    Member

    That stretch of road in photos is down a pretty steep hill and the length of straight before the 90deg right hander is not particularly long, given the fact that even a cyclist will have built up a fair amount of speed. Really ought to be double lines TBH. Incredibly stupid overtake. I dont think I’ve ever seen an overtake down there, let alone a tractor with huge trailer!
    Glad everyone was fine. Everyone in such a rush these days.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    There has been so much shit driving this week. This was the tip of the iceberg. But when you hear that rumble coming up next to you and think, no, he’ll wait… then .. it’s **** crazy.
    And there was me doing the long route home for the pleasure of it. Arf.

    ton
    Member

    don’t look too bad to me.

    you should try commuting in sunny leeds daily.
    things like that are a regular daily happening. hardly worth raising the inner Mr Hyde for.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    So ton enjoys getting practically shoved off the road by massive tractors with trailers. I don’t. Cool.

    ton
    Member

    DezB, no mate I don’t.

    but it is just part of commuting round here.

    sorry for replying.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Subscriber

    sunny

    Certainly seems to have bought them out this week. Last night I had someone pull up to my right at a junction, blocking the oncoming lane so they could overtake me in the turn onto the “main” road. Stupid thing to do anyway , even more so as I was turning right and they’d pulled up to allow them to turn left across me. (and I dare say had they not decided to try overtaking me before the junction there was plenty of room to my left at the junction) Morons.

    As a counter point to dez (and that is a stupid, dangerous, overtake) I usually find the HGVs and tractors on my commute are, invariably, the ones I can rely on to treat me like a real person who happens to be on a bike rather than an inconvenience.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    don’t look too bad to me.

    This is a forum full of people who are determined to ride bikes and who will put up psychological defences to desensitise themselves from danger so that they can ride bikes in relative mental comfort.

    That doesn’t change the fact that passes like the above are fragile things: heavily reliant on the assumption that everyone is being hyper-attentive and that everything favourable will happen and nothing detrimental will. What if the driver above had lacked the ability to precisely place themselves where they are just missed by the trailer but also avoid mounting the verge and losing control? It’s a fine balance, and by the looks of it they much have had a few inches to spare, if that.

    Just this week I’ve had multiple passes which would look “not too bad” on a camera but which again teeter on the brink of disaster: for instance one person overtaking me leaving plenty of space, but leaving much, much less to the person coming the other way on a bicycle (who, had they wobbled or hit a pothole—having been left no room to swerve—would have been the next Denisa Perinova); or another overtaking me leaving space, but on a blind bend on a singletrack road, where the result of any oncoming traffic would have been a proper mess for at least one of us.

    If it’s “a daily happening” then surely that makes it all the more worth doing something about, rather than being a reason to criticise people for wanting to do something about it? Because for every person who shrugs it off there’ll be another who’s choosing never to cycle; and for every time someone behind the wheel rolls the dice on a risky pass there’s someone else on the road who’s going to get screwed over the time it comes up snake eyes.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Well said Bez.
    The only thing the photo really shows clearly is how close the tractor was to the car. It doesn’t convey the feeling of having that massive bastard thing next to you, shaking the road, you thinking, has he got room? Unless you’re a **** hard northerner of course. Then you can no doubt do to the trailer what I said sarcastically in this thread previously. Obvs.

    butcher
    Member

    There’s nothing worse than a completely unnecessary close pass. I’ve been overtaken in a 30 (while I was doing 40…) One time some old couple overtook me passing through a quaint village, then the very second they pulled in front, slammed on the brakes to stop, forcing me to brake hard – they’d reached their destination… I’m sure everyone has examples but it’s really not an acceptable way to drive and I think most of it just comes down to a complete lack of thought, which is exactly why we need to voice concerns and increase awareness.

    Mister P
    Member

    I have come to the conclusion that the sight of my bum in lycra is so fantastic that it blinds drivers to oncoming traffic, blind corners, brows of hills and many other hazards whilst they overtake me.

    ton
    Member

    Unless you’re a **** hard northerner of course

    no need Dez. I will stay away from your post from now. no worries

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    FWIW I’d intended to append “and I include myself” to the first paragraph of my post, but I see I forgot.

    I think when you’re someone who likes riding bikes for the sake of it and don’t want to stop doing so, it takes a while to realise that you don’t have to normalise other people’s crappy behaviour, and to realise that one of the reasons most people you know don’t cycle is that they don’t normalise it (at least from the point of view of being subjected to it; clearly some of them are happy to do so when it comes to subjecting others to it).

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    no need Dez. I will stay away from your post from now. no worries

    Whatever, it’s what you implied in your first post.

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Subscriber

    That Bez article on measuring distance is superb. How did he/you become such an expert on that?

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    I didn’t, I’ve just done a lot of maths in my time. (And 3D graphics, image editing, etc)

    Someone published it, though, which makes it look a bit experty 🙂

    It’s not so much an elbow-brushing close pass as just an utterly shit pass, and if the car driver hadn’t been clued up and made room, the chances of him wiping out either you or the car are high.

    Round here, I keep seeing tractors and quads being driven on quiet lanes by implausibly young-looking lads…

    belugabob
    Member

    It’s not just cyclists that are shown contempt by such poor drivers.

    My commute home (by car) takes in some small country roads, and one of them has a tall bank on the left, and a thick hedge on the right – both of them pretty much adjacent to the edge of the road. At one point, the road turns to the left, meaning that you can’t see oncoming traffic. A pedestrian was on the opposite side of the road, going in the same direction as me and, as any sensible person would, I slowed down to allow for the fact that there wasn’t really room for two cars and a pedestrian to pass.
    Predictably, three cars were coming the other way, and the first two had moved into the middle of the road to go round the pedestrian. Bloody good job – for everybody – that I slowed down, or it would have been very nasty. The one surprising thing was that the third car (which actually stopped) was an Audi – nice to see somebody breaking stereotypes.

    Then, just this morning, I was waiting to turn right, out of a t-junction – something that can sometimes take a minute or so – and the bloke behind me was rooting his horn and gesticulating impatiently. Quite how he thought that would miraculously cause a gap in the traffic to appear, I don’t know. He was, unsurprisingly, driving a white van, so the stereotype reinforcing/destroying balance was restored.

    People really are getting to be very inconsiderate.

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