[Closed] What's wrong with Shimano hubs?

Just because of the cup and cone thing

Yes, basically. People can't be bothered to look after them and reckon they don't last. Personally I think the opposite. C&C hubs cost 50p for a bag of bearings and a dab of grease once or twice a year. A Hope hub can cost £20 a time to replace the bearings, and they don't last that long either IME (Rarely more than a year)
If you do buy C&C hubs, especially Shimano ones, do yourself a favour and open them up before you ever use them, and pack them with the thickest, stickiest grease you can find and adjust them up properly. I've found they generally come with hardly any grease in them and set a bit tight (Or too loose so they come undone!) Doing this and then regular servicing will keep them running just as long as any modern Hope hub.

I recently sold a bike with 4 year old Deore hubs that had cones literally as smooth as glass.....

🙂

he he, this old one again. I have just serviced a 12 year old XT rear, that hadn't been touched since purchase. Needn't have bothered, grease was still crystal and bearings perfect. Also serviced a 2nd hand M756 front which was a bit grunchy. New cones and balls, perfect again.

So I agree that good quality cup & cone are longlasting if looked after. However I try to make my bikes as maintenance free as possible and so prefer sealed bearings as when they go wrong, you know there is no risk to the hub and so dont need to do any preventative maintenance and can run them till they die.

An XT hub is less than half the price of a Hope hub and about a sixth of the price of a Dt24

There is a very very very good reason for this. They're crap!! A Hope will last for ever.

I had a front Shimano hub pretty much disintegrate on me on a pretty hairy downhill. Which was fun!

I'm perfectly happy with most shimano hubs. I have an front XT which has been going about 6 years now, and that was after I bought it off another guy.

Ditto on the grease thing, they always come empty when new, pack a load more in before you ride and they'll be fine.

The freehubs can be quite flimsy; I've broken 3 in the last couple of years, and I weigh less than an anorexic gnat. Replacement freehubs are almost as much as a whole new hub. Hope may cost twice as much, but it will last more than twice as long.

I have always had shimano and never had any issues with their hubs, currently have the M775 hubs and they are champion...havent touched them in over a year of nearly constant riding and they are fine.

So why don't people rate Shimano hubs?

I'd say they are just too 'common' for a lot of folks on here (but work just fine as far as I've experienced and that's without any maintenance)

You have to keep putting balls into them
You have to keep putting grease into them

Hope hubs last I have XC's from 2004, early pro II's which require little servicing and work well. Bearing cost more but work better

Shiamano doesn't do the Clicky Thing as you freewheel behind somebody slow

anything else?

Shimano XTR all the way for me too, smoothest hubs on the planet. Also like the fact that the freehub is near silent. Not a fan of loud freehubs, also don't like the cost of putting new bearings in a Hope. I also like centrelock so that sways it for me.

The comments above about lack of grease should be less true now as Shimano put sleeves in the hub now which during assembly push the grease to the right areas, boring but true fact.

I was out on Sunday with guy whose rear Shimano hub failed in a wierd way. They were the latest centre lock XTs. The cones somehow loosened but tightened themselves onto the cones, siezing the wheel solid. He had a long carry out of the hills for fear of trashing it further.

To have serviced it in the field he'd have needed allen keys, a tool to remove the centrelock disc, and cone spanners, assuming he could just adjust it from the non drive side.

Perhaps a one of, but it kind of put me off them. My last experience with XT wasnt too bad, freehub only lasted 18 months mind. Hopes have been near indistructable.

Shimano=value=reliable.

Avoid pressure washing your bike, can wash out grease etc.

Nick

I've had plenty fail on me. It was probably my own fault. I tend to fix things as they break rather than do preventative maintenance. Trouble is when you notice something wrong with a shimano hub it's too late. Less of an issue with other manufacturers where you can replace the whole cartridge bearing.

If you do regular maintenance then they last you well.

If you are looking for cheap hubs/wheels then have a look at superstar components offerings.

also don't like the cost of putting new bearings in a Hope

What, from about a tenner or less (if you look around and don't buy from a cycle supplier) for a full set? I've got an XC disc rear hub that's 6 years old and perfectly smooth. I've got a 14-year old Hope front hub that's like a buttery butter egg.

XTR? Let me see now, hmm, Chain Reaction....

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=1161

£125? For just the freehub? And how much is a Hope Pro 2 rear hub, I wonder...

I keep toying with buying a set of mt65 wheels or paying the extra for pro 2 hoops. I've found it tricky to get cup and cones just right, endless tweaking, which is why the hope system appeals.

"binners - Member

There is a very very very good reason for this. They're crap!! A Hope will last for ever."

There's a grim inevitability about this, someone's going to post it so it might as well be me

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XTR hubs here too & great so far.

Plus great value compared to Hope etc - with Olympics and light spokes, I've got a much more affordable 1377g wheelset 🙂

Northwind; that could be sorted with a new hub shell. Good chance Hope might replace it for free, too. If that happened with a Shimano hub, it's replace the whole lot.

Plus great value compared to Hope etc

Ha ha!

You're right Elfinsafety, it's a selling point really isn't it.

What, that parts are easily and cheaply replaceable? Yeah, I'd say so. I'm having a rear disc hub totally sorted for about £30, including new axle, bearings and pawls. Therefore, Hope is better value for money over the long term.

Have fun with your Shimano hubs when your bearing surfaces have worn away!

(Just remembered I've got an XTR rear hub somewhere, freehub's knackered. Not worth the cost of a new one, if they actually still made that pattern anyway. So basically it's now utterly useless)

the reason people dont buy shimano hubs is that cup and cones are a bugger to get tightened perfectley, the freehubs are slow engaging and just dont last. Also when they do go wrong, say the rear wheel cones tighten on themselves, if your ten miles from home you either have a long walk or you ruin your drop outs.

Sealed bearing hubs are just much more convenient for mountain biking ,less to go wrong, easy to take apart (two allen keys with a superstar hub) to clean and put a little grease on the freehub etc. The freehubs are serviceable, when they need new bearings you just knock them out ,pay a little for some bearing from a local shop and knock them in. And they'll last a few years (some i know lasted 10 years of weekly abuse in a hope hub).

Price isnt really an issue with superstar knocking them out the same price as deore hubs .(the superstar hubs are great by the way)

Really? CRC prices for all that lot are £50.97.

I've just split a Hope XC freehub but haven't got a picture. The entire freehub with bearings and pawls only cost me 23 quid, not bad for about 4 years of riding.

New sealed bearings for a hope hub can be bought for 3 quid from a normal bearing factor.

Both shimano and hope have been good to me.

"Elfinsafety - Member

What, that parts are easily and cheaply replaceable? Yeah, I'd say so."

No, that they break, enabling to show their legendary customer service in replacing a part that shouldn't have failed in the first place. A thought that will no doubt warm my soul if my Pro 2s do ever split in that way. "Easily and cheaply replacable", yes you're right, it's very easy to completely replace a hub body and rebuild a wheel onto it.

Shimano on the other hand tend not to randomly fall in half, which obviously is a big drawback in some people's eyes. But if one did, the entire hub assembly for an XT, complete, costs less than a Hope Pro 2 outer shell alone so "If that happened with a Shimano hub, it's replace the whole lot." fails to impress.

Shimano bearing faces can mostly be knocked out and replaced incidentally, not that my 12 year old Exage hubs have needed that, as they're still on original hubs and cones. Worn bearing faces are a sign of either huge miles or outright neglect, almost always neglect. Whereas hubs that crack through the middle are signs of poor design or execution.

My experience has been mixed with M775 hubs. Front perfect after 3 years and "inspection only" maintenance. Rear, alas, has been a pain in the arse.

It developed play not long after I bought the wheels (new) and has never been right since. I'm quite happy to pull the whole thing to bits and rebuild it with new bearings and grease but the cone lock nuts ALWAYS loosen off and play develops. I've cannabalised a new hub for the internals but the same pattern has developed and now the cups are pitted so the wheel is effectively done since they are factory wheels and it's not possible to get a replacement shell.

Hope hubs on another bike have been absolutely faultless in 4 years and have only had one set of bearings replaced in the rear.

For balance, I'm a big fan of most other Shimano components - mechs, shifters, brakes all brilliant.

the real BIG problem with the shimano is the fact their cones can just decide to tighten and you can end up in alot of trouble if your a long way from home

Really? CRC prices for all that lot are £50.97.

My mistake, adding the cost of 4x6001 2RS bearings brings it to about £40. Still a bargain.

I've got old Shimano hubs that have lasted ages (one original XT M700 front hub on my commuter still going strong after 20 years or more), but more recently, I've been disappointed with Shimano's stuff, and their freehubs definitely seem flimsier. I'd rather buy Hope, through choice, based on experience.

Yeah, too many failed freehubs for my liking, from both ends of the Shimano spectrum.

I [i]think[/i] its a mix of winter riding (this year anyway) and my fondness for low gears and trying silly steep hills/heavy loads. Either way, its the freehub issue that means I'm going DT next chance I get.

DT are very good, but so damn expensive, that's what led me to Hope in the end for my second wheels.

My hopes last years on the bearings. 2 sets of hope wheels, a couple of thousand miles a year on each, one set 6 yrs old only one set of front bearings, other set 4 yrs old one bearing has failed the rest are fine.

I don't open the bearings up to repack them however. I believe they last longer if the seals are left untouched if you buy quality bearings.

My experience of shimano is not good - constant maintenance needed and a couple of hubs that are scrap with pitted cups - plus if / when the freehub failed you are fubared - hopes are rebuildable trailside without tools - i carry a set of pawls on tours.

We did wreck a ratchet ring on the hope on the tandem - repaired FOC by hope. as well as 3 shimano freehubs - wheel scrapped after the 3rd freehub failed

Basically you are not comparing like with like - shimano and hop both have advantages and disadvantages so its about preference

A properly adjusted Shimano rear hub will spin much much *very* much smoother than a hope, and the bearings will most probably last longer. Unfortunately they seem to come very badly adjusted from the factory.. Often they're way too tight so that they do tend to fail prematurely. They should be left with a tiny amount of play that the QR takes up.

Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake.. A classic problem with Kona Stinkys etc.
Most people don't do the locknuts up enough either as it's a hassle without an axle vice.

The good thing though is that you can get a complete hub for peanuts and rob all the internals (cups included) for less than their separate prices.

Overall, I like them. I'm really not sure why, but I do.

I have always bought Hope over the last few years but my most recent wheels have done about 3000 miles and that has killed the bearings in a rear Hope Pro II. Unusually, I can tell you that those 3000 miles involved only 1 day of rain.

I don't think that's terribly impressive and, if I could make the choice again, I probably wouldn't choose Hope. The Pro II bearings seem considerably more prone to wear than XCs were.

But to go back to the original point, I'm too lazy for cup and cone so I'd rather spend a bit more on replacing cartridge bearings every 12-18 months. Stupid, but there you go.

Hope seem to be replacing the split hubs FOC and no questions.

Buy British

Hope seem to be replacing the split hubs FOC and no questions.

companies tend to do that when there are intrinsic failures in products. For all the Shimano-bashing, I've never seen a thread on here showing their hubs splitting.

I've always felt that cup and cone hubs are like rim brakes, the more you use them the less of them you have.

Simple. I don't like black or grey hubs.

I must be doing something wrong when I service my shimano hubs. They always come loose after a short period of time, a real pain to maintain!

Ive had two shimano freehubs fail, whilst out riding. Oh and one hub the outer casing split on the non-drive side. If its still in my shed I can get a photo.

Cartridge bearings all the way for me. Got a 5 year old specialized hub thats still perfect with no service. And my Pro11 have been ok so far...

Shimano front hubs are fine, last forever serviceable etc. Rear hubs not so. The freehubs go and they are non-serviceable and cost not much less than a new hub. It used to be that the freehubs lasted quite a long time but the latest XT/XTR ones have bigger axles and smaller bearings and I've had one go after not very many miles at all and so have others on here.

C&C are good if you're into maintenance (and bearings cost pence) but a pain if your not. I've pulled C&C apart and found the grease still perfect after 12months, other times after 6 months theres nowt but rusty gunk in there, and you never know which it'll be till you open them up (once the wheel has play your bearing races are already wrecked IME)

With sealed bearing hubs you can run them into the ground, you don't have to keep an eye on them, completely trash them, then for a few pounds make them like new.

Freehubs are the weakpoint of shimano hubs for me. Im a bit if a big gear masher and im about 17st, so i go for hope nowadays.
Although i'd argue the point about being able to replace the bearing races on Shimano hubs, cone yes, but never heard of replacing the races.

Shmano hubs should not loosen if adjusted and set properly IME.

I'm a happy shimano user, but with the horror stories on the new freehub bodies, if I ever need new hubs they may be hope.

Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake

Eh? Nonsense!

"Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake"

You made that up right ?

shimano hubs are ok but the freehub constantly dying on me was enough to make me change.... XT and an XTR (eyewateringly expensive to replace ....but the hub was smooth as butter)

agree with the modicum of maintainance and mechanical sympathy and the actual hub and bearing faces will last a long time but the freehub issue grates me ... id have XTR again but summer only wheels !

For me, it's simple and probably similar to many above.

1. You can almost endlessly refresh your Hope (or other) hub by replacing the bearings which can be done for about £8 per hub (in the rear hub, the freewheel bearings rarely need replacing) and last 1-2 years. Each time, the hub works like new again.
2. C&C hubs need regular checking
3. With C&C hubs, even the slightest bit of play or over tightening can quickly lead to pitted cups which means they'll never run smoothly again
4. Shimano freewheels fail relatively quickly for me (2ish years) and are pretty expensive to replace (£20ish)
5. Hopes do fail (I've had various Hope hubs for about 14 years now and the three that have broken (flanges) have been replaced FOC by Hope - a bit of a hassle but I reckon it balances out with the points above.

Yes they hubs work well, but........

They weigh 100g+ more than the hope ones.

The freehubs cost more than a new hub and only last a year, 18months tops. Yes bearings are 50p a time, but hope bearings outlast shimano freehubs and cost less.

The freehubs have play almost from new, why bother indexing your shifting to the nearest tenth of a mm, only to have the cassette wobbling a couple of mm each way?

They bend axels far more often than other designs.

shimano hubs are a bit heavier...

about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.

(steel axle and freehub body - or at least they were the last time i looked)

but yes, you are doing something wrong if your shimano cones/locknuts come loose or tighten themselves mid ride. get some cone spanners, and a 17mm(?) ring spanner, do one side up VERY tight, adjust the other side - and tighten it about half as much.

s'easy after a bit of playing around.

trail_rat - Member

"Cup and cone hubs on suspension frames can also self-loosen due to the torque applied from the brake"

You made that up right ?

Nope. I've worked in a couple of Kona dealerships and one hire place. This was a problem with large rotors, flexy dropouts/chainstays and cheapy M4xx series hubs.
The drive side cone locknut would always break loose, causing the cone to wear itself into the bearings. The owners wouldn't notice the extra drag (Kona Stinky riders tend to be a bit like this!~) and so would only bring it in when completely fubared.
This is partly why each of these places decided to drop Kona as they were so cheapskate about the hidden parts on the bike.

especially Shimano ones, do yourself a favour and open them up before you ever use them, and pack them with the thickest, stickiest grease you can find and adjust them up properly.

Yes this spot on advice!

Can anyone tell me jow to get the freehub off a DT240s??

Every thing I've read suggests it just pulls off.. believe me I've tried!

Maybe I am extra specially feeble.

I stopped buying Shimano hubs because it was possible (and I did ita few times through my own fault of neglect) to effectively write off the hub by pitting the cups. I've bought Hope size bearings, 16 for a tenner before now and I can guarantee if I knock the old ones out, new ones in it'll be done for another couple of years regardless of what cheap crap I tap back into the shells.

Agree with clubbed mostly. Although Shimano hubs are also mostly endlessly servicable with the right knowledge. Mind you rumbling hubs on a mountain bike isn't the end of the world...

Shimano every time even though I did have a 2 mile walk last week because of it. It was well overdue a service mind but a fairly freak problem. It's the second time a Shimano rear hub has locked up on me in 20 years. Whereas cartridge bearings have peeed me off regularly as soon as they start wobbling to when I have to get the hammer out to replace them.

If I was running cartridge bearings on the current bike I'd have to replace the bearing as soon as any wobble started as otherwise the current tyre of choice would regularly rub on the chainstay. No such problem with Shimano.

The best thing about cartridge hubs (hope at least) is the ease of moving between QR/15mm/20mm axles. But then I can buy 2 XT wheel builds for the price of one Hope.

Oh and the freewheeling silence is a joy.

BW that seems exremely odd, particularly with a non horst link bike.

Did it happen with other shimano hubs?

Did it happen with other shimano hubs?

I've seen other hubs do it - deore and XT ones. Not sure if most were on suspension frames as folks generally just bought the wheels in. Seen some nicely chewed up dropouts because of it though!
I think the thing with the stinkys came about through having the calliper mount on the replacable dropout, which would flex or shift under braking and then work at the locknuts. Probably both ends would loosen, but the drive side one is the one that would walk into the bearings.
Why don't they use a left hand thread on the driveside?

best hubs I ever had were XT Parallax from 1995. I have never needed to open them up, they are still perfect (admittedly not ridden much anymore). Since then I have not got on with Shimano so well, the rear in particular.

A Hope hub can cost £20 a time to replace the bearings, and they don't last that long either IME (Rarely more than a year)

Neither is true.

you did check they were tight and locked when you built the bike right - or did you just assume they were right from factory - it is my experiance that c & c hubs rarely come from factory in a condition that they could be put out in

had nothing but issues with my xt hubs, after a few outings in the peaks the cones loosened, and not having a clue how to do them at the time i had to have them tightened up costing a bit of wedge, did the same again a few months on, and i developed the most bizarre noise from them near the end, i then had enough and had the wheels taken apart and built on pro2 hubs and they were amazing ever after, i had no issues with them almost 7 months on after i owned them.....

its put me off shimano hubs on my experience, though im sure some people have had no problem at all.....pro2's also felt alot beefier and sturdy in comparison too.

Seems to me that the vast majority of people that wouldn't recommend a Shimano hub, are people that don't have the knowledge/experience to be able to service a cup & cone hub properly.
Use threadlock on the locking nut and it won't keep coming loose!

Seems to me that the vast majority of people that wouldn't recommend a Shimano hub, are people that don't have the knowledge/experience to be able to service a cup & cone hub properly.

That's basically calling all of us that prefer Hope hubs thieves, liars and vagabonds. Not very nice, is it? Next you'll be blaming us for the downfall of Civilisation itself. And why you can't get a decent loaf of bread anywhere any more.

Pfft.

the only aspect of shimano hubs I don't like is the disposable freehub. I've got two bikes on hope hubs and two on shimano.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people that choose to use Shimano hubs are smelly, beardy recluses with bit of biscuit in their beards and who enjoy servicing/adjusting hubs regularly.

Reasonable? 😉

Reasonable?

You forgot to mention their strange sexual proclivities which we can't possibly discuss on a family forum.

I've run XT hubs for years now and IME they give no bother.
The freehub could last a bit longer, but in the 7 years I've had my current HT, I've replaced one set of rear bearings and never touched the front hub at all.

Good point, Fred. Shimano users all watch Lazy Town...

I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I hate setting up cup and cone bearings, always seem to be too tight and always worrying about them coming loose or tightening up
.
conversely I've got two Hope hubs which are used regularly - one is 6 years old, the other 3 and both haven't been touched (apart from regreasing the freehub out of curiosity) and even have the original bearings

at those northwind photos: heresy!

😆 (shimano user and appreciator here)

I use XTR, LX and Tiagra, 105 and now some top end Swiss Bonti hubs.

All good if serviced etc.

My Tiagra hubs go through winter schmuck' and get regreased twice a year-piece of cake with decent cone spanners and top end boat grease sweet! and not shoddy white toothpaste bike grease from LBS.

decent cone spanners

a stamped bit of steel?
problem with cone spanners is you need at least two, and then there are loads of different sizes!
and they have no use for anything else...

OK. Seems plenty of people like them, plenty don't and plenty haven't a clue how to fettle them.

So where is there any guide how to sort them out properly? I've got XTRs that work a treat but I have no idea how to maintain them correctly. And I bet I'm not the only one. 😳

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=105

nicely serviced cup n cone hubs with non sticky grease in them spin far far far smoother than hope or dt offering and i mean FAR smoother

BUT i found my self servicing them after every 2 or 3 races to keep them that way - they never came loose the grease just got a bit yuck and watery so bought pro 3s to minimise the down time - when i can afford a set of race only wheels ill have a set of XTRs and keep my pro3s for play

Had rear XT shimano C&C come loose on a wet long ride over the moors on a 6 month old bike, stripped them down cleaned a regreased but its now pitted. I have hope hubs on my other bikes and they are easier to replace the bearing and as someone else pointed out, once new bearings are in its like new. However I have had a small section of the hub crack off where the rotor bolts go in....its still rideable though 😕

Hope hub can cost £20 a time to replace the bearings, and they don't last that long either IME (Rarely more than a year)

Neither is true.

Oh yes it is. I can argue the toss all week on this one, and have something to back it up! But I was wrong about the bearings, sorry.... They [i]can[/i] cost £22.99! - (I chose my words carefully on that one, and it wasn't a random figure I'd thought up....)

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24132

Cheap ones are under £10 a set, but it's still a whole lot more than 50p!

I've had 2.5 pairs of Pro 2 hubs and 1.5 pairs of XC hubs. The Pro 2s lunch their bearings in about a year, and sometimes as little as 4-5 months, (and fronts are worst IME), XCs last 1 - 2 years. Why?

XC bearing on the left, Pro 2s on the right-

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Pro 2 bearings are simply undersized so you can fit loads of different axles through them. But they don't last too long as a result

I have had no problem with XTR hubs although I do look after them properly, current ones are about ten years old

One plus point is they don't make that infernal clicking noise that a certain brand does

ahwiles - Member

shimano hubs are a bit heavier...

about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.

(steel axle and freehub body - or at least they were the last time i looked)

Current XT is about 400 grams... Pro 2 with a steel freehub body comes in heavier than XT funnily enough.

[i]It seems to me that the vast majority of people that choose to use Shimano hubs are smelly, beardy recluses with bit of biscuit in their beards and who enjoy servicing/adjusting hubs regularly.[/i]

/checks over shoulder/

[i]about 450 grams for an Xt rear Vs about 310g for a hope/Nukeproof rear.[/i]

Not really fair as Hope are more closely matched to XTR in price. Last time I looked XTR was slightly lighter but not by much. If weight bothered you you'd be looking at DTswiss and similar.