What is happening in Gaza is a war crime

Not so much blind as lack the will to pour through pages of bleating to find the odd point I might agree with. But stick with the Apartheid thing, you might win me over. I’ve got a shemagh, so the Palestinian PR machine has made some impact. Who knows, a sensible argument might push me over the edge.

lack the will to poor through pages of bleating

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So you’re commenting on comments which I have made which you haven’t read then ?

you might win me over

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LOL ! You can imagine how much that means to me !

So you’re commenting on comments which I have made which you haven’t read then ?

No, I’m commenting on comments you have made that I have read. I’m flattered, but commenting on comments you’ve made that I haven’t read would be beyond my, admittedly huge, intellect.

LOL ! You can imagine how much that means to me !

#1 – The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club. #2 – The second rule of Fight Club is, you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. #3 – If someone says stop, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over.

OK, I bet you knew that.

What you don’t seem to have grasped is why people argue. You see… the whole point is to win. To win the other person has to concede their position is wrong and yours is right.

It’s not just so you can go blah blah, whine whinge, blah blah. Numbnuts.

You see… the whole point is to win.

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Not for me, well not necessarily. I argue for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes just to give the opposition a hard time. Sometimes it’s to help me sort things out in my head so that I have a better understanding and can then use it to maybe influence people which I feel are important – a form of education you could say. For instance, arguing the benefits of socialism with a wealthy right-wing tory might well be a futile excise, but the skills developed in doing so, might well help me in presenting a better argument to people who I feel really matter. In such instances the more challenging the opposition, the better – obviously.

I certainly don’t ever post on STW with the intention of ‘winning anyone over’. In fact, I can honestly say that the thought hardly ever occurs to me – apart possibly, in the cases where people do not have an opinion in the first place.

“But the answer to your question is yes, I support Hamas in their fight against Israel.”

You are bloody thirsty aren’t you?

“On the question of whether “the Israeli state should be obliterated”, the answer again is yes.”

May I suggest you bring back the Brazen Bull please on all those you feel should be destroyed. That should be good fun.

“I argue for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes just to give the opposition a hard time. Sometimes it’s to help me sort things out in my head so that I have a better understanding and can then use it to maybe influence people which I feel are important – a form of education you could say.”

Crikey … you are evil. I thought you were an angel trying to help the unfortunate but no … you want to practice your thought & influence on those unfortunate STW members. You even want to educate them? Holy molly! You are a groomer!

Please don’t try your trick on younger people and yes I know you want to outdo Bono the god but at least have some mercy on the undeveloped minds.

Look into my eyes! Look into my eyes! What you do is wrong and I am right.

😯

Ernie lynch

You talk about media wipe outs and cover ups and yet this exact thing happens in the uk to cover up how corrupt the government is in Palestine and the terrorists it supports.

You are anti UK, anti western and a terrorist supporter and in my view should be prosecuted along with the muslim terrorists who think they can get by on the human rights act. Personally I think the death penalty should be brought back for people like you.

amo – Member

Ernie lynch

You talk about media wipe outs and cover ups

Sorry mate, you’ve completely lost me – I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.

I’ve talked about ‘media wipe outs and cover ups’ ? As far as I can recall, I haven’t said anything at all about the media.

And on a foot note – I don’t need the US government (or more precisely George Bush) to tell me who is, and who isn’t, a terrorist. I make up my own mind about that.

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chewkw, are you on some strange and bizarre mission to prove to the world what a complete tw4t you are ?

Are you perhaps doing it for a bet ? ……. if so, I reckon you’ve won.

“ …and I fail to see why should have come to that conclusion.

Because you make very few, if any, concessions! [Although you cover your debating ideals in a later post] ;~)

“ Although I have to say that I’m pretty stunned how uninformed some people are about the plight of the Palestinians.

Still, I guess that’s one of the reasons why the Israelis get away with what they get away with, wouldn’t you say ?“

Yes, I would tend to agree with you there but would also argue that the sentiment applies both ways.

Unfortunately my knowledge of the history is not as good as it could be but I try to see beyond the propaganda spouted on all sides. For example, it riles me that on British television news I see a reporter stood just outside Gaza proclaiming that the media are prevented from reporting from inside Gaza and then I watch 10 minutes of television footage from inside Gaza. How has that been made available then? It certainly hasn’t come via the Israelis because It would seem that a camera inside Gaza is a magnet for someone to come running up to it with a dead or injured child in their arms or a crowd of older people pleading to the camera. I don’t see film of militants firing rockets and mortars or military leaders making statements. I can therefore only assume that the footage coming out of Gaza is propaganda; footage designed to shock the world and encourage the watching public to hate Israel and sympathise with Gaza. Of course, Israel are playing the same game by only releasing footage designed to encourage support for their own actions.
Whatever is written on the subject or shown in the media always has a hidden agenda because you can’t criticise one side without appearing to support the other.

Interesting to read DrJ’s reponse to my comment about refugee camp status. The first paragraphs of his response are of course propaganda judging by the words used and the emotion in it. However, the last paragraph referring to the first hand experience of the expulsion of Arabs from Majdl, now that I do take on board. It’s real and gives a real insight into what has gone on before without being clouded by a hidden agenda.

I travelled through the area 30 or so years ago, crossing the Suez from Egypt into Israel (Sinai was at the time within Israel on the map) and up the coast past Gaza City and Ashquelon. My vague memories are that I had to use my (pidgen) French to converse rather than English which at the time surprised me because I related French speaking to Arabs and English speaking to Israelis. Such was my innocence and lack of understanding of what had gone on in the region; I was just a travelling hippy crossing from North Africa and making my way towards India! My interest in the current situation is merely based on the fact that I passed through the area all those years ago. Hopefully it will be resolved without too much further bloodshed. Both the Israeli and the Hamas leaderships have innocent blood on their hands whichever way you look at it.

For example, it riles me that on British television news I see a reporter stood just outside Gaza proclaiming that the media are prevented from reporting from inside Gaza and then I watch 10 minutes of television footage from inside Gaza. How has that been made available then?

No – they say that reporters are prohibited from ENTERING Gaza (in defiance of the Israeli courts – see who is really in charge in Israel). Some correspondents (if not BBC staff) are already there.

What strikes me is the difference between the sanitized news served up on TV at 6 o’clock and the more unpleasant reading even on their own web site.

ernie_lynch, You are so full of hate for anyone that does not take your point of view. You suggest that discussing/debating/arguing helps improve your abilities to bring people to your point of view. I thought the idea of discussion was for all sides to be open to new points and perhaps change their own mind. Please rise above the name calling if you are genuine, if not see that the way you are (and others)is a reflection of the intrenched blinkered people on both sides of what is happening in Isreal/palistine. Peace brother.

I can therefore only assume that the footage coming out of Gaza is propaganda

Er, no, I doubt it – there really are lots of dead and dying children in Gaza.

And no, the British TV reporters aren’t lying to you – Israel really won’t let them in.

So how come there’s TV footage even though Israel won’t allow reporters in ? Well I think you’ll find that’s fairly easy to explain.

Whilst the BBC and ITN might not want to have a permanent presence in the occupied territories, TV cameramen from other countries, specially Arab countries, might well have been there before things started to kick off.

Check this out :

Danny Seaman, who heads Israel’s government press office, which vets and issues permits to foreign correspondents said it was not Israel’s responsibility to give foreign media access to Gaza. “They should have been there in the first place,” before Israel began restricting access on 6 November

Here’s the link : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-international-media-excluded

If you’re bothered about untrue propaganda coming out of Gaza, then take everything the Israelis say with a pinch of salt. The Palestinians have no reason to lie – the truth is horrific enough.

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ernie_lynch, You are so full of hate for anyone that does not take your point of view.

Really ? This sounds like someone full of hate ?

Quote :

“…the establishment of a free, democratic, secular Palestinian State, where all Palestinians, whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jew, can live, is as morally imperative as the destruction of the Apartheid State was”

Well I’ll be buggered ……… that’ll explain why peace in Palestine is proving so hard to achieve then.

And no, the British TV reporters aren’t lying to you – Israel really won’t let them in.

So how come there’s TV footage even though Israel won’t allow reporters in ? Well I think you’ll find that’s fairly easy to explain.

Whilst the BBC and ITN might not want to have a permanent presence in the occupied territories, TV cameramen from other countries, specially Arab countries, might well have been there before things started to kick off.

As Jeremy Bowen explains on the BBC website:

“[On January 10] I got back into the BBC armoured vehicle with Hamada Abu Qammar, who is one of our Gaza producers.
You may have heard him on the BBC from Gaza in the last two weeks. As the correspondents can’t get in, Hamada and his colleague Rushdi Abu Alouf are on broadcasting duties.”

So the truth is much more mundane than the usual anti-semitic conspiracy.