What folding bike?

To ease the pain of each end of my train based commute I want to get one of those little folding clown bikes.

Looking at:
Brompton
Dahon
Tern

Brompton seems the default choice but is expensive and only has 16″ wheels versus the Dahon and Tern’s 20″ wheels, also have limited geared options. Tern is run by Son of Dahon and looks to be pretty much identical to the Dahon options.
Ideal world I’d get one of the alfine’d brompton’s from Fudges Cycles, but they are very spendy.
Nexus hub gear is available on the Dahon, but not others.
Tern is available with 8sp deraileur gears
Brompton in 2 and 6 speed variants.
Dahon and Tern both do a singlespeed variant which looks pretty cool but would mean slower on the flat and needing to HTFU on the hills.

Must haves:
compact fold
quick fold
“some” gears (a move to Bristol is on the cards, which equals hills.)
mudguard or option to fit mudguards

I’m 5’10” tall so assume I would not have any problem fitting on a standard issue bike from any of the big clown bike manufacturers.

Any experiences/recommendations welcome?
Cheers.

I was in a similar situation to you a few months back and ended up with a Brompton. I was about to order a fully pimped Brompton S2LX on C2W until I fell over a work mate selling a boggo M3L in mint condition which I ended up getting for £350.

Some thoughts.
Brompton’s have the best fold. I looked at a few others, but they all seemed no where near as well thought out.

I spoke to a few shops and the universal answer came back “Brompton – the rest of them we have so many problems with.” “We can only sell Dahon’s when they’re on special offer” “Kansis have all been recalled” etc etc. And this was echoed across a whole variety of stores.

On the Brompton itself? M-type bars are awful. Like wet spaghetti. First thing i did was swap the stem for an S-type one and fit flat bars. The grips are appalling too, so on went some lock ons. All round much better. The 3 speed hub is pants. 1st is pointless (too low), 2nd is fine for pulling away but a bit too low for cruising. 3rd is WAY too high. Good strength training though… I also put spds, schwalbe kojaks and the EZ wheels on it.

On the flat, downhill or in heavy traffic, it’s an utter hoot to ride. Very nimble, accelerates really quickly and spinning out in 3rd I’m doing well in excess of the speedlimit. On a kids bike. It can give me a mahoosive grin in the right conditions.

Uphill is a different matter. Utter dog. The tiny wheels carry no momentum so the minute you stop pedalling you stop rolling which makes it really hard work.

The big thing – for all the moaning – is that it’s exactly as fast across town as my old commuter fixie was. A typical Wandsworth-> St Pancras trip is ~45 mins, although last week I managed it in 34. That’s not too shabby. It’s not a bike I’ve fallen head over heels in love with, but I do respect it’s capabilities, and in the right conditions it’s a lot of fun.

(…and yes I still want an S2LX…)

What’s your commute like?

I was pretty sceptical of all the the small wheeled folders when i started my central London commute, but went for a 3 speed Brompton in the end. I have been really impressed by it, cant say ive found the gearing a problem (if you buy new, you can vary the gearing by a few %), and my M bars have been the perfect choice (again, if you find they flex, there is a brace kit available for a few quid. I weigh just under 13stone and sprint on mine, no brace, no probs). I dont ride it like my Santa Cruz though, its just not made for it! Or is it…?

Bromptons seem to have the best fold, hold resale value well and are solidly made. Other brands do other things well, and i wouldnt fancy a long rural commute on my M-type. Are any test rides an option?

Brompton here. 20-mile daily commute.

I agree with all of the above but would say that I see the effort involved in pedalling as a plus rather than a drawback – commuting/training all rolled into one (“train hard, fight easy”). I’d reccommend a 6-speed if you’ve got SERIOUS hills to manage, though.

Also, I’ve switched to Shimano clipless. This means that the cranks won’t stay in a locked position when the bike is folded, but that’s not a problem, particularly.

I’ve upgraded the brake levers to a pair of Avids. The Brompton levers are as useful as a paper hat in an air raid when it’s wet.

That is all.

Brompton here, 6spd. Coped fine with the climbs from Sheffield train station to Hathersage, loaded with a weekend’s stuff in the front bag. ^spd lets you sit and spin.

Steering is quick but you get used to it, my 29er feels like a tank if I swap straight to it!

If you’re getting the train then definitely go for one, everyday I watch the non-Brompton folders wrestle them to try and get them on. They just don’t fold as well

Expensive but worth it.

I used to own a Dahon for commuting and it was great fun. Very good reliability, no isseus at all. Only thing i noted what that when accellerating, especially standing up it was quite laterally flexy. I think that was just the model i had tho. They don’t make that one any more so obviously a known issue.

I have tried a mate’s brompton and that seems a lot more rigid, BUT, i did prefer the 20″ wheels on the dahon over the brompton’s 16’s. And the Dahon feels much more like a real bike with proper gears (if you go for a decent spec model).

Depends on budget, Bromtpn’s are an arm and a leg for a decent geared one.

+ another for Brompton, mine gets erratically used for work, 2speed so a pain on hills but tolerable for short commutes (steep hills here).
Mine’s all blinged out in an utterly stupid fashion, bit lighter, same position as my rd bike with cow horn TT bars and fancy brakes pointless expense, you’d all take the p**s if you saw it! It’s great fun to blat about town on.

If I went brompton then realistically I’m looking at the S2L due to budget. You seem to get so much more for your money from the other brands.

At the moment my commute is a doddle and could be done on a singlespeed no problem. Flat across Windsor, on the train, then flat across the city. But a move to Bristol is in the offing and I don’t want the bike rendered useless by the hills as it would become both commuting and general getting about town transport.

The sensible option would seem to be a 7sp 2011 Dahon Mu with the nexus hub for under £500, or the new Tern equivalent with 8sp deraileur gears for under £500. Both have the 20″ wheels, which appeal, but neither fold as small as the Brompton, though the fold looks to be pretty quick.

I work in a shop selling Bromptons. Pricey, but made in UK, great fold and great spares back up.

We also have a Mu XL if that’s of interest, cheap. Not much cheaper than a Brompton tho!

http://www.biketrax.co.uk/products.php?plid=m6b0s19p2297

Well I’ve just done my “across Sheff, then across London” commute. (Have spent the day working at home, now going to the office to sleep. Quite wrong…)

The roadie on the Kuota Kharma with Campag Record & Cosmic Carbones didn’t seem to enjoy being overtaken so we had a nice little dingdong on the way to the station (fortunately all downhill or I would have been annihalated). Maybe not big or clever, but it shows that a folding bike can hold it’s own against the big boys.

As far as gearing on the 2-speed (and 6 for that matter goes), I’m led to believe that the sprockets are standard Shimano spline pattern, so any SS sprocket will fit. Along with changing the front ring, that means you can fettle gear ratios to your hearts content. As with all bikes though, how steep a hill you can climb is as much about you as it is about the bike…

If you have to carry it anywhere it’s worth considering making it as light as possible. Mine’s about 23lb which isn’t bad for a bike, but soon gets noticeable as a dead weight at arms length. The 2 speed is a chunk lighter though. EZ wheels means you can tow it half folded most places quite happily though.

I weigh just under 13stone and sprint on mine, no brace, no probs

Jeezus!. I’m 10 stone with an upper body like a lolly stick. I hated the M-type bars with a passion – they were downright scary. Swapping to the flat bars made an enormous difference to how confident & solid the bike felt.

I own a Dahon Uno – cool looking singlespeed with a back pedal brake. I used it to commute from Bristol airport to the train station. The reverse journey was interesting with only one gear! I love the bike but as you say the lack of gears does limit your top-end speed. Bike folds in less than 10 sec and is really light; the beefy motorcycle lock I use to secure it weighs about the same. Dohan make geared versions so would get my recommendation.

I’ve had a Tern D7 for about a week. It has the Shimano hub.

First impressions are that it is a surprisingly solid ride. It feels as if it needs another gear for pacey flat sections but the range is good enough for living in the Pennines where I am. The fold is neat and well engineered and its easy to fold down and up. The chain is completley encased with the BioLogic freedrive cover so you won’t annoy other passengers on the train when they rub up against it.

Its not as small as the Brompton in terms of folding but I imagine the ride is a bit more solid.

So far, so good.

My Mrs had a Dahon, it was generally ok for light use but the stem and bar clamps looked a little weak and the thing was flexy. Impressive pump concealed in the post and a well thought out design, just too many just too many flimsy QR connections.

I’d rather have a 2nd hand or Bike 2 work Brompton. I’d probably get a 2 speed flat bar model if looking myself. I’ve even heard of people converting to fixed wheel and blinging the thing up with Ti!

I would go Brompton time after time, a lot of the other brands seem to develop play in the folding parts very easily.

for the fold….Brompton every time.

Endorse all the comments above on Brompton….not perfect but best folder and durable

Me, I prefer a Dahon. Bought one a few years back to sling in the boot of the car when going away on business. I’ve ridden a couple of Bromptons and I can’t argue with the fact that they have a superb fold but I just feel a Dahon is better value for money. For around £400 you can get a decent spread of gears, rack, mudguards and bigger wheels. Ok, so not the smallest of folds but still very practical and portable. Had no problem with the QR connections which everybody else seems to think are flexy and I’m a heavy bugger who has even ridden his Dahon off road (not really recommended) and up steep hills (slowly).

Dahon’s better for riding longer distances, Bromptons the only thing that folds small enough for rush hour commutes.

I think they really need to be ridden sat down though as they’re all pretty flexy with those long stems, posts and folding frames.

I had the Dahon Speed Pro, very nearly as fast as a road bike. Wish i hadn’t sold it tbh, as thers quite a few times where the ability to fold a bike up and keep it indoors at friends houses, B&B’s or the car boot would have ment the opportunity for some nice cycling.

Bromptom here – with M bars, which I’ve had for a good few years now. Yes they are flexy and yes I will swap for S bars at some point.

The fold.
Simply the best there is. You will be folded and sitting down on the train well before the Brompton wannabes with their multitude of clips, levers, bits of bungie etc. The Brompton folds into the smallest size of all the folders (some really only really fold in half and take up quite a bit of space). The folded Brompton can even fit bewteen the backs of train seats on some trains.

Bits I’ve upgraded (over 4 years I think).
Brake levers – swapped to Avids. Grips – swapped rubbish ones (seem to be made of cut off Marigold fingers!) for Brookes leather ones, which go really well on the Brompton. Changed tyres for Schwalbe Marathon Plus – rear punctures are a right PITA to sort out at work! Fingers crossed, no punctures after putting the MPs on – but they are a bit ‘lively’ in the wet!

Bits I’ve replaced.
Derailieur cable and spring assembly – London grime did for it after a few years. Front light bracket – tends to wobble a bit, ‘work harden’, crack and fall off! Brake pads – replaced standard with KoolStops when the originals wore out

Maintenance I’ve done.
Pretty much bugger all apart from a very occasional clean & lube.

Things to consider.
If you don’t have a track pump, get one and use it once a week. The Brompton really comes alive with tyres pumped to 90 PSI. Let a tyre get to 50 PSI and it’s like riding through treacle!
A folded Brompton weighs more than an unfolded Brompton! No, it really does (OK it doesn’t really, but it seems like it does) – defies the laws of physics!

And the winning reason for having a Bromton….

You can take part in the Brompton World Championship – Best Dressed Male winner 2009 here!

S2L Here. Perfect for my commute – althogh I did knock the gearing down a touch as there is a long hill to my local station and I want to take it easy on the way there (suit etc).

Just boxed it up and had it sent with our furniture to San Francisco, where I can see the hills might be a challenge. Missing it already.

Brompton S2L three speed here. I bought it in November and use it on a 6 miles each way commute into Hammersmith each morning. I train it in from Dorking to Wimbledon, and ride the rest. Two mildly biggish hills – Wimbledon and Putney – in the way, and a bit of riverside bridleway riding between Putney and Hammersmith bridges, too.

There are usually about half a dozen folders on my train every day, and every one is a Brompton. You occasionally see Dahons, but they don’t seem to be used much by the people that own them. The fold seems awkward, and when folded, they make for a big package. If you are regularly hopping on a train, the Bromptons fold smallest and stay folded – a lot of the others don’t seem to stay clipped together when folded.

The new grips (Mine was a 2011 model) seem to hold up very well – give them a try before going for lock on jobs.

One thing about the expense of Bromptons – they hold their value really, really well. Jon – you got a bargain at £350!

The front bag that clips to the headtube is awesome, by the way – if you commute daily, it’s a real bonus. I chuck a laptop, loads of random things, wet weather gear, tubes, tools, water and clothing in it. Well worth the slightly jaw-dropping price in my opinion.

SPDs are a great investment, too, as is the built in rear light that fits on the reflector bracket.

I think I’ve done somewhere north of 900 miles on it so far, with just a new chin and sprocket to pay for.

Just get a Brompton – you won’t regret it.

Oh yeah, the front mounting bag is immense – especially in summer as you can carry a load of stuff and not end up with a sweaty back! Also, you can undo the velco on the bottom of the bag and the frame slides out, so you can put the bag on your back and strap boxes / etc to the frame. An excellent design.

If you get something other than a Brompton, you’ll get other people looking at you thinking ‘Hmmm, he couldn’t afford a Brompton!’ 😆 😉

Yeah, the frame is great – if I don’t ride in, I just slide the frame out of the bag and it turns into a soft courier-alike bag. 🙂

You can take part in the Brompton World Championship – Best Dressed Male winner 2009 here!

Get a Dahon 🙂

Thanks for the opinions.
Lots and lots of love for the Brompton. It is swaying me I have to admit.

Dahon Mu Xl is tempting with the Alfine too.

A Brompton s2l may be in my future.

That’s me – on the left, in case you were wondering!

I have a Dahon folder and it feels wobbly, I have little faith in the bars for anything other than light duties. Tried a Tern last week and it felt so much more solid in the front end. Well all over really, it rode like a proper bike.

If you get something other than a Brompton, you’ll get other people looking at you thinking ‘Hmmm, he couldn’t afford a Brompton!

And if you have a Brompton you get people looking at you thinking ‘Hmmm, he couldn’t afford a Birdy!’

The fold on a Brompton is good, but for ride quality go for a Birdy, esp. with Big Apple tyres on.

mmm Birdys. They are awesome.

For super fast ride you really want a Moulton but they don’t really advertise themselves as foldable – rather as ‘separable’, and the price is very silly rather than just silly.

We have a Brompton at work. It’s very puncture prone, the gear hub explodes with depressing frequency, and there’s dreadful flex through the bars. I don’t like it at all.

For a faster ride, try a Mezzo. But, the fold of a Brompton really is the dog’s danglies.

Yet another one for Brompton. The next-closest I looked at was Mezzo, but still not as neat a fold. For train travel, the others wouldn’t fit so well in so many places – eg on the FCC trains, a Brompton will fit between two back-to-back seats.

I’ve got an S2L and would have the same again. Hub gears add a lot of weight and a bit of drag. If you find the Bristol hills a struggle once you move there, you can swap to a smaller chainring or larger sprocket to lower the gearing a bit. Standard is OK for me around London though – like a slightly higher-geared singlespeed with an optional easy gear.

Front bags are great (if pricey), if special-ordering then it’s worth getting the Marathon Plus tyres (cheaper than swapping later), don’t bother with the Brompton lights as they’re all cack.

Former Brompton owner here who still misses it, but it went to a more deserving home. Road a 200km Audax on mine without any issues. Best fold by far. Very good tires helps with the rolling resistance. Easy luggage carrying. Don’t bother with the rear rack. Heavy.

I like the Dahon Uno SS simplicity, ride an Airnimal Rhino off road, and am a general fan of folding bikes. Tern and Dahon aren’t really that dissimilar as Joshua Hon and his mother left David Hon to set up the company.

Airnimal Joeys ride soooo much better than the Brompton, but the fold is not as nice:

FOLDING bike = Brompton
folding BIKE = Airnimal

Most others are in between. Decide on your priorities. Then buy a Brompton 😉

used a brompton nearly every day for 5 years…

great bikes and on busy train the compact fold can not be bettered

They are very capable as well, done c2c and Lejog on my s2l.

Flat bars are much better than m bars in terms of flex and if yon are tall you can fit a riser bar to the s stem to get extra height without the flex.

For daily use then fit Marathons – not had a puncture for over a year. Kojaks are def quicker, they are lighter but they lower the gearing slightly and are surprisingly puncture resistant – they wear quickly though

if you travel into a big city spares are very to come by + there are decent mail order places..

Airnimals do ride better but faced with a packed train…. Brompton is best.

If you are a Southwest Trains user you can get one for £2 a week.

for balance I have broken a brompton frame and crank plus lots of other bits, but their warranty and service is second to none…

brake levers are crap hough

Another Brompton owner here…

I would echo the above comments and would only add that many parts are Brompton-specific (rather than standard cycle parts). As noted above, this is generally not a problem, unless you go touring to some far-flung corner of the planet on one (and some people do…).

I sometimes take mine (bagged) on a bus and haven’t had any problems so far. For their intended purpose (mixed mode commuting) you just can’t beat ’em.

Pah!

I roll on a Bickerton.

workshop manager for a very busy Central London bike store selling a variety of bikes including folding bikes from Tern, Dahon and Brompton

Brompton 100% choice for ride performance, long-term durability and hassle-free ownership with second-to-none warranty and spares backup from a leading UK manufacturer

(this is similar experience to Hope for mountain bikers in the UK)

there is a good reason that Brompton use steel for their frame manufacturing, despite aluminium alloys being “en vogue” 😉

Brompton have been made for many years and have been thoroughly refined using experiences of 1000s of owners, and all spares are available very quickly

the factory tour of Brompton (near Brentford in West London) is simply fantastic for any bike enthusiast, and its so refreshing to see UK manufacturing in action

the “other brands” have been constantly problematic in terms of even getting a brand new bike to work out of the box (PDI – frames are often misaligned) and especially in terms of long term durability and spares availability

we have had to refund owners of these other bikes because we cannot source replacement parts within the warranty period, the customers then buys a Brompton and we will only see them for an occasional puncture or the yearly service

If I had to pay my OWN money for a folder, I would look at nothing but a Brompton, and my first upgrade would be Avid FR-5 brake levers which substantially improve the brake response, and some decent lock-on grips to replace the original foam grips

I would echo the above comments and would only add that many parts are Brompton-specific (rather than standard cycle parts). As noted above, this is generally not a problem, unless you go touring to some far-flung corner of the planet on one (and some people do…).

not many of the parts are hat specific and there is normally a work around if you are really stuck.. not an issue though in the UK. For far flung touring some of the odd parts are small enough to take spares..

on lejog we took spare shifter cables as these are a little odd though a sturmey archer cable can be modified.

If I had to pay my OWN money for a folder, I would look at nothing but a Brompton, and my first upgrade would be Avid FR-5 brake levers which substantially improve the brake response, and some decent lock-on grips to replace the original foam grips

too right standard grips and levers are very poor..

Shimano R550 levers, Ergon grips and 3″ riser on an S stem (ignore old pedals)

only thing is that the quality of brompton parts has degraded.. the rear bearings my first s2l were japanese and lasted 3 years. the same bearings on my current s2l were unbranded and i had to replace them after 6 months *fitted skf and been fine since.

only thing is that the quality of brompton parts has degraded.. the rear bearings my first s2l were japanese and lasted 3 years. the same bearings on my current s2l were unbranded and i had to replace them after 6 months *fitted skf and been fine since.

@rootes1

this is a malaise that is affecting the entire bike industry, not just Brompton, as manufacturing costs rise, and our currency devalued..

look at the 2012 Specialized Hardrock, the new model has a FREEWHEEL rear hub, which is actually shocking for a bicycle designed for even light off-road use!!

cost cutting is rampant in the bike industry with ‘subtle’ downgrades to wheel hubs, bottom brackets, 7 speed drivetrain components and cheap finishing kit (steel handlebar, plastic pedals) that are not evident to many consumers on the shop floor, but always catch an experienced mechanics’s eye straight away

any of us older riders with long memories can remember the problems (axle failure) with the freewheel hubs before Shimano introduced their freehub design with extended axle support

and 3″ riser on an S stem

just invalidated your warranty then…

thoroughly refined using experiences of 1000s of owners

so why do they not ship with better brakes as this seems to be a common complaint amongst Brompton owners…

@Esher Shore

Yer see lots of downgrades to keep bikes are certain price points. Once of the Brompton tech guys at the BWC last year said that they were getting more warranties on 2 speed hubs and part of the problem was their spec to sturmey just specs a bearing size but not quality..

@Turnerguy

just invalidated your warranty then…

and? doesn’t bother me, my double chainset and custom front bag probably makes it more invalid 😉 I have the risers as I’m tall but it keeps the forward position of the S stem.

having said that Brompton are pretty good on warranties…

They replaced this crank even though it was outside the 2 year parts warranty period and I just sent them a picture of it not even asking for a replacement.. they offered.

When this happened to the frame, they collected it from me, and when it came back they had also replaced lots of other bits to say sorry..

Brompton are apparently designing a better brake lever – but think tehy are busy trying to sort the E-Brompton out after the company providing the E bits went bust.

Si