Shocking failure rates. I was thinking of electrifying my cargo bike, that would’ve been with a bafang motor. The above really puts me off! Cheaper motor but presume corresponding drop in potential robustness and reliability

Well I’ve had 18 months of gen1 and gen2 kenevo. Neither failed in that time, but if the motor did pack up Berkshire bikes fit a replacement whilst you wait.
Personally I wouldn’t buy any other brand unless the dealer could fix it straightaway.

I have a Whyte e180, it has a coil rear shock and it is the best bike I have ever riden, disregarding the motor attached to it, it descends better and is more playful than my Yeti sb6, handles just as much rough stuff as my old commencal dhv3.

I love it.

But, it’s no good if you don’t have mates who ride electric, it’s not fair on either party really, OK once in a while to mix but not ideal

if the motor did pack up Berkshire bikes fit a replacement whilst you wait.
Personally I wouldn’t buy any other brand unless the dealer could fix it straightaway.

That’s great if you live near Berkshire Cycles but it’s important to note that they are the exception, not the rule. My mate’s Levo is currently at Raceco (another “Turbo” flagship store) and he’s been quoted a week turn around which is still pretty good but it does mean we’re on the road bikes this weekend.

I’ve recently (since the end of last year) been riding a Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay A70, which I bought s/h from the classifieds here.
I’d never ridden an e-bike before but always fancied one of them since they were first announced. Probably because I like stuff that’s a bit different and anyway, I have a soft spot for RM.
It would be that or the Liteville 301CE but I don’t have £8000….

I have to say that I’m loving it, technical climbing is an eye-opener (and I don’t think that I was a bad technical climber on a normal bike). It’s not exactly low maintenance, in that you have a fairly convoluted drivetrain, but I don’t mind a bit of fettling and at least most stuff is user-servicable and the info to do so is freely available.

There doesn’t seem to be any great love for them though, not in Britain anyway, not that I care about that – you could say the same for Liteville….

have an orbea rise m10 and i love it. first e-bike and i’m just praying that its reliable. i won’t sell my analogue bike until that is proved

The Bosch’s are by my journo friends still considered by far the most reliable, and probably the best motor/battery on the market, let down by the worst UI.

Mine certainly gets used and abused; I hose it down & i’ve had a couple of issues where it wouldn’t want to turn on, one of which I took it to the local dealer to sort, the second time I unplugged everything & put the motor next to a heater & dehumidifer, cleaned up the connectors & put some contact spray on them & it’s been good to go since.

The problem I would say with the Bosch is the wiring/plug arrangement is low down & with the bashguard under the motor (trek Rail) it becomes a haven for mud/loam & ends up staying wet/damp in the winter, unless you take it off after every single ride. I just clean it out every few weeks now.

I wouldn’t be without my non eeb anyway so I can just ride that if it properly sh*ts itself.

The problem I would say with the Bosch is the wiring/plug arrangement is low down & with the bashguard under the motor (trek Rail) it becomes a haven for mud/loam & ends up staying wet/damp in the winter, unless you take it off after every single ride. I just clean it out every few weeks now

When I get my bike back with a new bosch motor I’m going to put some moto foam in between the motor and the bashguard to prevent mud and damp from accumulating around the connections etc. Hopefully this will prevent a lot of the mud from accumulating in that area.

Will also spray the area with some silicone based spray to try and keep the moisture at bay.

Dielectric grease in the connectors will keep the moisture out.

Rail 9 ordered, based on all the reviews, not quite as slack as the G1, least its got a decent reach and chainstay length. No need to sit in a sweaty uplift bus anymore!

When I get my bike back with a new bosch motor I’m going to put some moto foam in between the motor and the bashguard to prevent mud and damp from accumulating around the connections etc.

I had thought about this, but wondering if motor cooling might be compromised. 🤔
Presumably it’s not completely sealed for a reason.

No need to sit in a sweaty uplift bus anymore!

This would be great. Not sure if all venues allow self uplift yet though. Pretty sure Revs don’t, even though they had a video with Veronique Sandler, Matt Jones and Chris Smith riding up..

I had thought about this, but wondering if motor cooling might be compromised. 🤔
Presumably it’s not completely sealed for a reason.

I figure that the moto foam cant be worse for keeping the heat in than all the mud that’s usually caked onto it 😉

Will try it and see.

Buy local, I’m on my 4th ebike with bosch motors now gen4. No problems so far and 2 of my older ones are still with friends. I did have a new Levo last year and it had 2 motors in 6 weeks so was rejected.
Never jet wash them which I’m sure is part of the issue with a lot of failures, when riding don’t change gear under load and one gear at a time. Change chain every 300-500 miles and cassette 600-1000 miles. I use basic GX cassettes and cheap 1130 chains.
The big thing for me though is keeping them away from the jet wash 👍

My thinking is that e-bikes reward someone who has a little bit of mechanical (and electrical) empathy and capability. As I said before, I’m not averse to fettling, in just the same way that if you have a car or van you have to accept that you’ll have to change oil and filters, check brake and power steering fluid, replace the odd sensor occasionally, etc..
Or does everybody pay someone else to do all this nowadays?
Yes, my Altitude Powerplay does potentially have more to check/replace/repair than, say, my singlespeed does but so does any trials or enduro m/cycle. There’s no such thing as a free ride, basically.

I don’t really believe that you can replace the sense of satisfaction to be gained from believing that you’ve prepped something as well as possible. Proper planned preparation prevents piss poor performance (or whatever they say…).

Anyway, the Altitude is a superb bike, in my opinion – ultra natural power transfer with zero lag or run-on (which is what you want in technical situations), descends as well or better than anything that I’ve ridden (for my type of riding), 108Nm torque (mappable up another 10% (if you have the Mountain Tuning Tool) – like I said before, if you like nadgery, steep technical climbing and descending I honestly think that it’s a gem.
Tuneable geometry with the Ride 9 flip chip (like the normal Altitude).
It has some sort of “character”, whatever that is…..
I’ve had great support from Zero Bikes too, btw.

With regards to motor reliability, we’ve had 4 Bosch ebikes.

Gen 2: 6500km no faults
Gen 2: 7500km replaced after around 500km as failed following a muddy ride and excessive wash, 2nd motor no faults
Gen 4: 2500km no faults
Gen 4: 1500km no faults

Following the failure of the motor after washing it, we decided washing it was bad, so we don’t (we generally avoid muddy rides too, but we can as we don’t live in the UK). We also decided buying local was definitely best just in case something went wrong.

Would be interesting to see motor failure rates in UK, compared to drier places.

@Andy-r The RockyMountain bikes looks really interesting, but as they don’t seemingly do any media (I know Pinned tv have been given bikes lately, but there hardly a huge channel) they simply dropped off the radar for me. I’ve seen the EMB rider reviews on YT, but not having a local dealer, (zero bike is vaguely close but seemingly only online sales) is simply very off putting. I might be capable with my bike maintenance, but I would’t touch my car electrics, so why would I mess with my bikes?

I don’t treat my ebike any different from previous full-sus bikes. Only difference in maintenance is that I have to replace chains and cassettes a lot more often (commuting really eats them).

However, I’ve never jet washed a bike and I’ve probably waved a hose vaguely near my Levo about three times in two years, and I’m not someone who avoids wet and muddy rides! I just think you shouldn’t be putting more water near a bike unless you have to, mud doesn’t kill bearings, water does.

I was talking to my LBS owner about this and he blames most ebike faults on jet washing.

I never jet washed mine, but I did use a hose.

I will be extra careful when washing mine when the new motor is fitted, will avoid hosing the motor area.

My motor history, all Bosch;
Gen 2 350 miles, 950 miles, 900 miles. Never jetwashed but I do use a hose.
Gen 4 currently at 1900ish miles no issues.
My Mate’s Levo is on it’s third motor after 2962KM. Another mate’s Gen 1 Kenevo had a new motor at 600ish KM. Yet another mate’s 2019 Levo has had about 5 motors, my favourite was the first replacement after Spesh allegedly fixed the belt issue that lasted 2 rides and then failed 1 mile into the third. He’s just reported that either his battery or TCU has shit the bed this weekend. He won’t be buying another.

Change chain every 300-500 miles and cassette 600-1000 miles.

Ouch, sounds expensive. I’m still on the original chain and cassette on my Rail, albeit with 2 quick links after the chain snapped at 1816 miles. I’ll change it once we’re allowed out to play properly.

Maybe a market for motor covers whilst washing the bike? I have washed my Trek Rail a fair few times, only with a Hydroshot or hose. Hydroshot no where near the motor or remote unit, but hose has been close enough. I always shake and bounce bike to remove excess water. Hundreds of miles so far and ok, not been out on it as much as I’d like.

For anyone in the same position, turnaround on a new Bosch CX for my Orbea has been 11 days from taking it in to collecting it. Bike now sorted and pretty painless.

For anyone in the same position, turnaround on a new Bosch CX for my Orbea has been 11 days from taking it in to collecting it. Bike now sorted and pretty painless.

took about 2 weeks for mine to get a new motor- collecting it tonight.

whilst I wouldnt call the motor failing after 550 miles painless, the bosch warranty process (via a different dealer than the one I bought the bike from) has been smooth and painless.

Id be tempted to buy an EBike as they do offer a completely different experience however, there’s just too many stories like these all over the place. Until their reliability is better, it’s an expensive and risky game once the warranty goes. Running costs are high enough without having to replace motors.

Just for balance, I had a 2019 YT decoy for around 1000 miles and just over a year. No problems whatsoever with it, totally reliable in all conditions including utter filth on the chase and dusty, dry at eastridge.

My Bosch motor has had no issues so far after 1200 miles. I don’t ride in deep mud but I did have a full submersion of the drive train after an encounter with a very deep icy puddle that I lost. That was about 250 miles ago. I never jet wash b,ut my bike is scrupulously clean – I clean it after every ride in the winter, with a hose. I avoid the area where the bottom bracket seals are as I reckon that is where water is most likely to get in. I do wash the casing though – perhaps I had better stop doing that.

I would be very interested to know the failure rate though. I wonder if it’s washing or riding style/conditions or build quality that kills the motors.

Does this site have the facility to do a poll I wonder. Mods?

Would it be possible to tape over the joins for the motor cover at least partly to prevent water ingress. OK theres likely venting for air, but water running down the underside of the up tube(down tube 😉 ) contacting the edges of the case or where the cover meets the frame 😕
Just to minimize areas that moisture can enter, even covering over the electrical charging plug, a small piece of duct tape is no price and easy to replace, but it would stop any water from getting in that route, and I doubt the snap back cover is 100% waterproof

Are the motors easily removable? If so manufacturers could offer a next day replacement service by post like amazon prime.

1) Motor brakes
2) Unbolt motor and disconnect.
3) Log into brokenebbmotor.com
4) Arrange courier pick up of broken motor
5) New motor arrives next day
6) Bolt on and ride.

I wonder if it’s washing or riding style/conditions or build quality that kills the motors.

If it’s any help, in a very small controlled trial of 2 Bosch CX motors (mine and Mrs Devbrix), same bike, ridden in same filthy conditions, washed and stored in the same way, mine failed and hers hasn’t.

Or even better sell bikes with a spare motor.

Would it be possible to tape over the joins for the motor cover at least partly to prevent water ingress. OK theres likely venting for air, but water running down the underside of the up tube(down tube 😉 ) contacting the edges of the case or where the cover meets the frame 😕
Just to minimize areas that moisture can enter, even covering over the electrical charging plug, a small piece of duct tape is no price and easy to replace, but it would stop any water from getting in that route, and I doubt the snap back cover is 100% waterproof

I cant speak for other motor brands, but the latest bosch motor already has a rubber seal/gasket where the motor cover joins together , all the electrical connectors are fully waterproofed. But that still doesnt seem to stop water getting inside the casing in some instances, dont know whether its a QA issue when the motors are assembled or the way the motor is used, but devbrix tale above implies a QA issue.

This is the older Bosch motor but it gives you an idea of how they’re constructed.

Are the motors easily removable?

Yes – in the Bosch it’s 6 bolts & and 4 connectors. They are a bit of a handful to remove and put back in, but it’s not hard, just fiddly.

The challenge is if it’s thrown up an error code as part of the failure – you need the Bosch software to reset it.

@Sanny
How did you find the sizing on the Spectral? Going off the Canyon chart is shows me needing a small at 174cm height and 76cm inside leg – always ridden mediums in the past

Thanks

1I am 6 foot 1 and just followed their sizing chart which suggested a large. It felt bob on when I rode it. Currently been riding one of their Spectrals in 29 flavour for a piece and it too is a large. They are German so when it comes to sizing they probably know their onions. Italian sizing however is a whole different ball game! Ha!Ha!