Let’s stick to the actual facts instead of making stuff up ? He was an OK kind of guy but by no means perfect ?

That’s not an actual fact, it’s a belief.

Does anyone else here feel close to God when you are out in the woods/fields with nature? I was at the top of the Peaks last weekend, alone and I suddenly felt close to crying. How beautiful. What wealth.

I read yesterday that an elder of the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” (Mormons), has urged his followers to “fight” the “rising tide of secularism” with reason.

This from a man who believes that a 19th century bloke discovered some gold tablets written on in an alien language which he was able to translate into 16th century English with the aid of a magic stone in a hat…

Hora, humans fight over anything. Most, anyway.

Read much about the Turkish atrocities during the last couple of centuries?

He also made some average ale that sells in pub chains 😉

Rusty the Armenian one?

Can’t remember the CoE official party line on gay marriages at the present (negative would be my guess)

Actually, that is wrong. I know there are a whole bunch of Rowan Williams haterz here but he did more to move the CoE forward on this issue than many have done for a long time. It might be nice to think he can just set the rules and say let it be so but when you are head a collective rather than boss of a company you have to bring everyone along with you. He was doing this before he became archbishop and I’m sure he’ll continue after

oldnpastit – Member

How about keeping your religion between consenting adults in private

Perhaps because that’s not what the Bible teaches? I thought the religious had already stated you’re not supposed to follow everything in the bible, that’d be dumb.

“Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”

The local Missionaries always seem to stop me when I’m carrying a clinking bag back from Bargain Booze. Maybe they are thirsty?

I thought the religious had already stated you’re not supposed to follow everything in the bible, that’d be dumb.

Except, you are, that’s what it’s for. The ones who don’t follow everything are choosing not to. Consolidating the ‘word of god’ with modern living is an increasingly difficult battle. What 21st Century Christians really need is Bible 2.0.

As soon as you decide “well, I’m not going to follow everything in the Bible” it becomes worthless. If you’re going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

Junky,Junky, why so angry?

Your psyhic powers are weak today but hey you keep up the gentle ad hominems rather than address the actual issue

No, I actually called you to task over your sweeping statement about being discriminated against. The Catholic school I worked in had a similar mission statement. It was never mentioned past that,as to do so would be discriminating against me on religious grounds which is illegal,up here (can’t vouch for E&W ) So to me it answers your question.(you know the examples you asked for) Of course why would you want to work in a church school bearing in mind your views on religion?

Please accept my apologies,but I assume the rest of you post was meant to try and insult or demean me, but even by your standards it made no sense,so I only read it the once. So can we take the fact you like totally owned me with bombers/peed in my shoes as implied?

As soon as you decide “well, I’m not going to follow everything in the Bible” it becomes worthless. If you’re going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

And that Cougar is a very large part of why I am not a Christian anymore.

Its worse than that you are allowed to Murder a child up to 24 weeks.

Just in case you didnt know what that age looked likenot looking at that link thanks, I do know what they look like at 13weeks, that wasn’t abortion tho, must have been Gods will eh? Maybe he was trying to teach us something? maybe how kind and benevolent he is.

Duckman – it is not illegal to discriminate on religious grounds if you are a religious organisation in Scotland. so yes – a Christian school can legally insist all its teachers are practising Christians. Same as nursing homes attached to religious organisations can do so.

Hora, I hate it when you’re only pretending to be stupid.

It’s very, very confusing. 🙂

Cougar – Member

As soon as you decide “well, I’m not going to follow everything in the Bible” it becomes worthless. If you’re going to reject bits, how do you then have faith in any of it?

Not sure that is strictly true (and that comes from someone who has little time for coffee shop religion or politics). Theology shows us that there are many different ways of interpreting the Bible eg, the literal word of God, a history, a set or poems etc. The Creation story is a perfect example of the first and third cases.

I had a discussion with my son this morning (he is studying Theology, Philosophy and Ethics at A level) about the interpretation of Mark’s Gospel including the notion that it may have been written by a woman!

JY – isn’t there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

Anyway – just for interest, today’s comment from Desmond Tutu in the FT about camels passing through a needles eye. Enjoy!

To put it more simply, can you be wealthy and spiritual at the same time or do you have to lead a life of austerity to be spiritual?….[back to the OP]….The Easter weekend provides an opportunity to reflect again on these wrenching topics, on what is important to us and what really matters.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7a457082-7cb1-11e1-8a27-00144feab49a.html#axzz1rA00nTUr

JY – isn’t there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

No

children are impressionable and need to be protected from medieval superstition. If parents want their children to have a religious education this can be done outside of schools.

Religious schools are discriminatory, they reinforce prejudice and they indoctrinate the young.

Would you think maoist schools should be allowed? Where the teachings of Mao are taught as the one and only truth?

How abount mooonies? Scientologists?

JY – isn’t there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

There is no rationale to seperate children based on the religious views of their parents.

Would you support segregated Labour, Conservative, UKIP schools?

Theology shows us that there are many different ways of interpreting the Bible

Oh, sure. But if anything that just reinforces the question. How can we have absolute faith in a religion based on a book that we might not ever have translated / interpreted correctly? The whole ‘is there / isn’t there a god’ bit aside, surely that’s a shaky foundation to be building a belief system on?

Junky,Junky, why so angry

I am not, despite your instance, angry or forthing. Can I be livid or furious or irate in your next post please? \Whatever yoiu do please dont answer the questions.

I assume the rest of you post was meant to try and insult or demean me, but even by your standards it made no sense,so I only read it the once

How many openly gay people at your school?
How many practicising and openly catholics?
or Christian

Please that is pathetic and the last act of desperate man – it was not meant to insult or demean you but it was meant to counter your argument re discrimination [ however like when I pointed out the issue did affect me as I have PGCE etc I don’t actually expect you to conceed the point or even acknowledge it abut instead I would prefer you to charicature me as angry, nonsensical and actually attacking you[ slowhandclap]

It is disingenuous nothing I said was that hard to understand but the answers refute your view hence why you just do the sarcasm/attack…it is the stw way attack the person, demean their argument, ignore the questions never concede the other person has a point and plough on into increasingly personal attacks

Well down we are all proud of you

The Catholic school I worked in had a similar mission statement. It was never mentioned past that,as to do so would be discriminating against me on religious grounds which is illegal,up here

Did you mention your beliefs in your application? Church going as a hobby etc made no reference whatsoever to how you could support this in the application form or your religious views etc.. Again of course you did or they would not have interviewed you. So there was no reason to ask at interview . they only interviewed those of faith

If it is not taken into account why don’t you just tell me what percentage are catholics and practicising religious people or how many gay teachers you have met in a catholic school. Obviously it wont be skewed above average if your argument is true that they don’t discriminate

They discriminate we all know it, especially you as you work there.

To cry “confusion” at the simplistic question/point is pathetic and as believable as the Christian message
I would rather not descend into personal attacks , we are just discussing facts accept them or refute them no need for the pointless personal stuff

JY – isn’t there a case for religious and non-religious schools? You have your views which should be respected and others have different ones.

Interestingly t here are some anomalies here. Personally I dont mind religious schools per se what I do object to is them being taxpayer funded and potentially my child having to attend

We have three National Curriculum items in schools
Maths, English and RE
I mean seriously WHo TF thinks RE is that important an issue that all children need to be taught it at the expense of say science, economics, history, philosophy whatever

If you belong ot a faith you can go to the nearest school of that faith and the LEA [ taxpayers] will pay your transport costs to get there – though they are reducing this

If you are not of faith you need to send your child to the nearest school – there is no right for non faith people top send their kids to the nearest non faith school – test case still ongoing iirc

This mean inevitably you will have children who do not follow a religion being educated [ indoctrinated??] into that faith and the parent shave no choice and we all fund this

that is basically what is wrong with it ….i am ignoring the fact they are actually wrong about their god and therefore defeating the whole point of education 😉

Perfectly respect all your opinions and also respect my own choice to send my children to school with a strong Christian ethic including daily services and even Sunday Chapel. Both my sons study Theology (at different levels) and have been capable of making their own informed opinions on the extent/lack of their own faith. They have been very well taught to analyse all subjects including theology in detail and to assess subjects critically and well beyond any government imposed (talk about indoctrination!) syllabus.

At this time of year, my older son enjoys pointing out the regular misinterpretations of the Easter story. So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated – ie, exposed to many different ideas including a Christian faith while being given the critical faculties to question them all to reach his own conclusion. Hence he is capable of having rigorous and well-informed debates with friends/family members who have a much more orthodox faith. I am very glad to have had the “freedom’ to educate him that way and even happier that there was no indoctrination!!

I respect the liberty of those who wish to have their children educated in the context of any religious faith as much as I respect the liberty of those who wish to avoid their children being educated in the context of medieval superstition.

Cougar – I am the wrong person to ask, since I do not believe that the Bible is to be interpreted literally.

JY – cross post. Modern RE seems very different from the Theology/Divinity that I studied at school. Indeed at A level, the course my son takes is Theology, Philosophy and Ethics. A brilliant and challenging course for developing critical faculties – understanding Kant at 17!!!!!

I think I have addressed my views on your last sentance, but accept that my conclusion is based on a very small sample 😉 !!

my own choice to send my children to school with a strong Christian ethic including daily services and even Sunday Chapel

So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated

🙄

At this time of year, my older son enjoys pointing out the regular misinterpretations of the Easter story

Are you posting this from your parlour in 1897?

Binners – yes, of course! Actually watching the absurdity/misinterpretation of Passion Story as depicted in local high street. My son thought it was ridiculous and inaccurate.

Mr Whoppit – fourtunately both are perfectly able to move beyond the superficial interpretion of my comments, that’s education for you!

aye I dont mind choice i just dont want to pay for a religious one.

Nor is it surprising that people of faith are happy that their kids go to faith based education now is it.

Did they teach them about Eoster?

The name “Easter” originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the “Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos.” 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: “eastre.” Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

The education can be good or bad it just depends but I dont want my kids learning a religious ethos or anything about it tbh as it is a ll a load of old bollocks

My kids go to a non religious school and my son was made to write a prayer to Jesus..do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

yes I complained and the devoutly religious Teaching Assistant has been warned of her future conduct.

FWIW I never read the prayer he ripped it up and would not let me read it and was very cross about having to do it [ aged 6].

THM relaxing at home

You have successfully indoctrinated your children into a medieval superstition. Well done!

However this does shed light on your general lack of rational behaviour and thought and credulous nature.

More to be pitied than hated.

aye I dont mind choice i just dont want to pay for a religious one.

Nor is it surprising that people of faith are happy that their kids go to faith based education now is it.

Did they teach them about Eoster?

The name “Easter” originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the “Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos.” 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: “eastre.” Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

The education can be good or bad it just depends but I dont want my kids learning a religious ethos or anything about it tbh as it is a ll a load of old bollocks

My kids go to a non religious school and my son was made to write a prayer to Jesus..do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

yes I complained and the devoutly religious Teaching Assistant has been warned of her future conduct.

FWIW I never read the prayer he ripped it up and would not let me read it and was very cross about having to do it [ aged 6].

THM relaxing at home

JY ironical and worrying that your son was forced to write a prayer whereas that would never happen to mine? Why would a non-religious school do that, or any school for that matter?

Why would a non-religious school do that, or any school for that matter?

from the information given sounds like an overzealous evangelical TA, not the non denominational school.

Wouldn’t it be good to get primary school children to invent their own Gods/Religions. Whatever they fancy?

I bet you’d get some absolute belters

TandemJeremy – Member
You have successfully indoctrinated your children into a medieval superstition. Well done!

However this does shed light on your general lack of rational behaviour and thought and credulous nature.

More to be pitied than hated.

I have no interest in engaging in another argument with you TJ especially give the personal nature of this comment. I have no desire to be banned again as a result of your provocation. But your own narrow mindness is merely exposed by this comment.

My children have been given excellent tools to critically analyse all aspects of religion and do not need your pity. They are capable and educated to make their own informed decisions. But thanks for the parenting insults. True to form again!!

Tolerance?!?

More to be pitied than hated.

Captain superior at his best again 🙂

Yo have not given them anything but indoctrinated them into a superstition. if they were able to “critically analyse all aspects of religion” they would reject it as the load of twaddle it is.

However this does shed a lot of light on your intolerant patronising attitude and your assurance of your own superiority.

So rather than being indoctrinated, he has been very well educated – ie, exposed to many different ideas

So presumably as part of this broad, non-biased education, you’ve also taught them all about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism…?

TJ you are doing no one any favours by criticising peoples parenting skills and possibly calling their kids and them idiots however much disregard you have for their chosen beliefs.

Edit I’d let the indoctrination comment go, my parents probably wouldn’t say they indoctrinated me but they bloody well did.

do we force bnelivers to attend humanist ceremonies or do something so against their beliefs

My daughter goes to a non denominational school so is forced to learn about other faiths, it isn’t a problem for her or us. In fact it is a positively good thing.

Your child’s experience had nothing to do with religion in general and more to do with one particular person who was appropriately reprimanded – and you know it.

However this does shed a lot of light on your intolerant patronising attitude and your assurance of your own superiority.

or how many gay teachers you have met in a catholic school.

I went to a Catholic Grammar School (formally a Convent School) for the first few years there we had several Nuns still teaching.

From 1981-1988. We had two openly Gay teachers at the school in that time. One male and one female.

There was no issue from the actual School’s point of view, although as usual the kids often took the piss (behind their backs)

I also had a teacher of RE and A Level Theology who was not Catholic.
He referred to himself as Agnostic and was not brought up in any faith at all.

Sorry if that doesn’t match what you wanted to hear, but it’s my own personal experience.

Donk – its that teamhurtmore claims to be liberal, tolerant and openminded while being conservative, intolerant and not receptive to ideas at all.

I now understand why he is like this. I do pity him.

Its just a shame he has indoctrinated his children while he is at it

Just stop, chaps!

You can’t argue against ‘blind faith’

Thankfully Britain is a fairly tolerant place and I can cope so long as I am not having religion forced upon me. I’m even nice to the door-knocking missionaries.

I gently roll my eyes when our ‘religious leaders’ speak forth on matters of morals, problems with gender equality and their very weird obsession with what other people are doing behind closed doors with other people.

I do, however, object very strongly to “Thought for The Day“….