Interesting how so many on here are having a go at Cameron, yet there is a profound silence regarding his vile, sanctimonious, hypocritical, money-grabbing predecessor and his equally vile wife. Who happily took us into two unwinnable conflicts, and pontificated at length about his faith.
Come on, show some consistency, and let’s see equal amounts of vitriol directed at Bush’s ass-licking poodle Blair.

Nah, that’s old history.

Cameron is fresh meat.

Come on, show some consistency, and let’s see equal amounts of vitriol directed at Bush’s ass-licking poodle Blair.

Let’s see equal amounts of vitriol directed at Blair ?

Why – has he made a speech worth commenting on today ?

Or is it because you’re an embarrassed Tory ?

How many other 2000+ year old manuals would you refer to for guidance?

How old’s the Kama Sutra?

IHN – Member

The New Testament tells us so much about the character of Jesus; a man of incomparable compassion, generosity, grace, humility and love. These are the values that Jesus embraced, and I believe these are values people of any faith, or no faith, can also share in, and admire.

“It is values like these that make our country what it is – a place which is tolerant, generous and caring. A nation which has an established faith, that together is most content when we are defined by what we are for, rather than defined by what we are against. In the book of Luke, we are told that Jesus said, ‘Do to others as you would have them do to you’ – advice that when followed makes for a happier, and better society for everyone.”

I’m not sure why anyone would take offence at someone expressing those kind of thoughts.

Those aren’t christian values; they’re just a selection of values that christianity incorporates.

Cameron isn’t saying, “Look, christianity has some nice values, we should follow these specific values”- he’s specifically saying “We need christian values”. And that’s not the same at all.

Aristotle – Member

How many other 2000+ year old manuals would you refer to for guidance?

Haynes Manual: Suzuki Bandit 600.

so we need christian values but we should not follow christian values …pretty sure yu have cleared that up for us.

that is some hair you are splitting there and i wish you luck

Aristotle – Member
How many other 2000+ year old manuals would you refer to for guidance?

some of yours are still used though I accept not everyone follows logical arguments but there are some masters of rhetoric on here 😉

Christian values, for the most part, are perfect for a society that wishes to extol kindness.

Whether it’s a hypocritical statement from a Tory PM is another matter.

so only for the most part and yet they are still perfect 😕

I’ve yet to meet a Christian who describes themselves as “perfect”.

Not religious myself but can’t knock a philosophy that, broadly speaking, embraces kindness.

Junkyard – Member

so we need christian values but we should not follow christian values

Was that at me? It seems like it could be, but I’ve said no such thing so I’m not sure.

Not religious myself but can’t knock a philosophy that, broadly speaking, embraces kindness.

Hi i am gay and dont believe in god can you show me your kindness and Gods love?

I dont find it very hard to knock it

it claims to be tolerant but only if you follow gods will or they are not at all tolerant or as you describe.

See Islamic preachers of hate[ trademark of the right wing preachers of fear], Israel for other examples of Abrahamic religions and there God given tolerance and kindness

it was aimed at you Northwind but it is ride o clock so I will check back later

Not taking sides, but I always find it interesting that on these threads the vast amount of the intolerance and hatred comes from those on the aethiest side of the debate.

Hi i am gay and dont believe in god can you show me your kindness and Gods love?

Of course, if you accept gods word, you can be cured of your gayness!

In fact the catholic church has a special team of priests stripped down and oiled up, all ready to wrestle the gayness out of you.

Irate Atheists are the biggest hypocrites in my opinion. Intolerance personified.

Why get so worked up and full of hate over other people’s perceived stupidity?
Always comes across as a superiority trip to me.

Not taking sides, but I always find it interesting that on these threads the vast amount of the intolerance and hatred comes from those on the aethiest side of the debate.

Irate Atheists are the biggest hypocrites in my opinion. Intolerance personified.

Why get so worked up and full of hate over other people’s perceived stupidity?
Always comes across as a superiority trip to me.

Large sections of Christianity believe homosexuality is evil and should be persecuted, the clear message from the church as an establishment is to resist legal equality for homosexuality.
Large sections of the church legally discriminate against women in a manner that is not just abhorrent to most of society but illegal in any context other than when protected under the guise of religious freedom.

Can you show me the “atheist” equivalent of this hatred.

I am not for one moment defending homophobia, misogyny or any other discrimination.
I am merely stating that FOR THE MOST PART the philosophy of Christianity is based on kindness.

Grind your axes elsewhere.

The Church hates gay people like me and wants everyone to get AIDS. Also they wear dresses and think a wizard lives in the sky. **** the Church.

Edit: and **** anyone who supports them too. In the arse.

Well its philosophy claims to be based on kindness, but the reality appears to be somewhat different for anyone casting a sceptical eye over the actions of the church, its history and its current political campaigns.

Same old clap trap gets trotted out about Christians hating gays.

Is that the best you can do?

There is nothing as ignorant as an atheist trying to spout his own twisted agenda.

Same old clap trap gets trotted out about Christians hating gays.

Is that the best you can do?

There is nothing as ignorant as an atheist trying to spout his own twisted agenda.

To be fair, they also put down women as well as the gays.

Its true tho. The prejudice and hatred in the name of religion is all too obvious. Not some or occasional but as a constant theme running thru all the abrahamic religions

The swine…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWbMikrZ91U&feature=related[/video]

Same old clap trap gets trotted out about Christians hating gays.

Is that the best you can do?

There is nothing as ignorant as an atheist trying to spout his own twisted agenda.

So speaking out against organised discrimination is “ignorance” and a “twisted agenda”.

Go on tell me more, I think you are winning everyone over with your message of love and harmony.

Applying your logic Junkyard that ‘religious values’ represent poor moral judgement, whilst presumably atheism better moral judgement, can we assume that our prisons hold a disproportionately large amount of people for whom religion is an important part of their daily lives ?

And that those who shun religion are much less likely to end up in prison ?

It is quite an important consideration because if religion is deemed to make people “bad” to the extent which you appear to be suggesting, then perhaps a serious effort should be made to encourage UK prisoners, for whom religious values are important, to turn away from their God and embrace atheism.

Harden criminals could then declare “I lived a life of crime until the day I discovered that there was no God”. Upon which they could set forth, having turned a new leaf, to live a happy and constructive crime-free life.

Whaddya reckon geezer…..good idea or not ?

@stevewhyte you’re saying the Church is tolerant of gay people and welcomes them into the congregation?

The old testament is clearly homophobic:

Levetique 20 13

“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death”

Whilst in the new tesatament homosexuals are included in those that don’t respect the law:

Timothée 1 9-10

“realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers”

FeeFoo – Member

I am merely stating that FOR THE MOST PART the philosophy of Christianity is based on kindness.

See, I agree with that. But that’s the problem with religion, you don’t get to pick and choose, “christian values” means the whole package.

Course, a lot of people do pick and choose- personal hypocrisy being better than living your life by a set of rules you can’t abide, but easier than changing your faith…

you’re saying the Church is tolerant of gay people and welcomes them into the congregation?

The sensible ones do….

The one my parents go to preach faith in God, but they don’t promote organised religion. A very tolerant and easy going bunch.

Tell them you’re gay and see how you get on? Just as an experiment, like.

FeeFoo – Member

I am not for one moment defending homophobia, misogyny or any other discrimination.
I am merely stating that FOR THE MOST PART the philosophy of Christianity is based on kindness.

Grind your axes elsewhere.

Really? An eye for an eye? Or turn the other cheek?

Christianity is intolerant, it is full of prejudice and hatred and as a basic tenet tells believers they are superior to non believers.

The sensible ones do….

Genuine question. Can you name me a Christian church that supports homosexuality? I’ve never come across one and would like to revise my views if that’s the case.

Edukator – Member

The old testament is clearly homophobic:

Really so its also murderphobic and animalshagaphobic etc etc.

The Bible, therefore Christians, dont agree with homosexuality but you kind of miss the point, all have fallen short regardless, from Elton John to Mother Teresa

Genuine question. Can you name me a Christian church that supports homosexuality? I’ve never come across one and would like to revise my views if that’s the case.

Didn’t know of any Churches (as a group, rather than individual congregations) but wikipedia provides this helpful summary:

Wikipedia

Cougar how can a Christian believer support Homosexuality, you talk from such an ignorant position. Its the Sin not the sinner thats the issue!!

Genuine question. Can you name me a Christian church that supports homosexuality? I’ve never come across one and would like to revise my views if that’s the case.

There are churches that are supportive of homosexuality, there are also groups with the larger organised churches who support homosexuality, they are unfortunately a small voice in a big crowd.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/20/jimmy-carter-leaves-church-over-treatment-of-women/

Steve, both the new and old testament are hypocritical in that killing is both condemned and encouraged. See my two previous contributions to this thread. Both Moses and Jesus say one must not kill then Moses goes on to order the killing of homosexuals amongst others and Jesus orders cutting the throats (slaughter in the English translation) of his enemies.

Cougar how can a Christian believer support Homosexuality, you talk from such an ignorant position.

That was exactly my question, yes. You were saying it was ‘claptrap’ a minute ago, and Whatnobeer suggested that the ‘sensible’ churches weren’t homophobic.

I’m far from in an ignorant position, but I wasn’t aware that the policies had changed as you both seem to suggest. Or at least, he suggests, I’m not wholly clear on what you’re saying because you seem to be making contradictory posts. Perhaps you could clarify?

Its the Sin not the sinner thats the issue!!

So, what are you saying here, a gay person is ok so long as they can be cured?

Stevewhyte, I don’t think it’s a sin, ok with you? 🙂

Stevewhyte, I don’t think it’s a sin, ok with you?

I’d like to know the answer to that too. Are you homophobic, Steve?