singletrackmind– you sound like you live in an authoritarian world, where everything is down to discipline, denial and dogma.

the lad is only 19, just because he show’s no ‘ambition’ to get ‘ahead’ , its not him that is wrong, its the options !

How to create more appealing options then?

art school ?

I genuinely LOL ed at the thought the armed forces is what is needed in this situation

Sure the 19 year old truculent youth will just join the army because his dad says so and then all his problems will be over.
.

Sorry I’ve not read the whole thing…

But, I similarly was unfocused around your son’s age. I didn’t balls up my A-levels entirely but blocked the path I thought/convinced everyone I should take. I suffered from and still do battle with epic procrastination so never really got anywhere with the things that I thought I wanted too. Partly it’s failure avoidance, which ironically results in a self fulfilling prophecy.

Anywayz. I ended up doing a series of crap jobs, wishing I had tried harder and thinking long and hard about wanting to “be something”. Not famous, but have some kind of career. I have been a care worker for nearly 7 years which has taught me a heck of a lot about responsibility, professionalism, my strengths etc etc and 3ish years ago I went to uni finally to study adventure education which I am still doing (I finish in a month 😯 ) from which I’ll get into instructing/coaching with the goal of self employment.

My point is vocational courses/work are great for people that are more immediately motivated or practical. Also at 19 or there abouts the lack of life experience means we don’t quite understand who we are yet (despite thinking we do, very strongly) or what that can develop into. He sounds like he has self esteem issues as mentioned and the parental split will have had an effect. Focus on his strengths; we form our self esteem by the successes we have at the things we consider to be important. This is key. Failure is also exaggerated in it’s damaging effect, learning to have another go is a big part of growth.

Music tech/production/teaching etc is a really big area. Living in Brighton there are loaaaads of variants of these types of courses and jobs which music nerds revel in. I think some financial contribution to living at home is necessary as well as actively doing essentials such as the food shop, laundry, housekeeping etc. These are life skills he’ll need on his own and requires time management. He can also develop satisfaction from pulling his weight and being independent although I’m sure it won’t appear so at first, but you can show him appreciation for his help. People like to feel useful.

In short; support his strengths, don’t focus on his failings, encourage more financial independence (he’ll learn that working properly and living away from home is better) and consider either vocational or music based study.

He’ll be ok, he’s got a dad who cares and a lot of years left. Prepare him for the next step by getting him to prepare himself otherwise he won’t be able to move out and grow as an individual. Oh and get him a mountain bike, they’re really fun 😉

See if he’ll go and have a pint (or two) with you.

Wee in his shoes on the way out to work.

…..in Australia. It’d almost certainly change his perspective on life and give you some much needed bonding time.

Blimey, I’ve two adult ‘kids’ and even I can’t think of anything useful to suggest.

How many of those who’ve responded actually have any experience of teenagers?

It’s not cut and dried, each child is an individual with their own needs.

And, fwiw, even when they’re adults you can still have problems. My daughter (mid-20’s) has had nothing to do with me for over two years.

singletrackmind– you sound like you live in an authoritarian world, where everything is down to discipline, denial and dogma.

OCD world yes D, D , Dogma. wtaf.

No I dont have kids , No , i wont ever have kids .
I would love to sit in bed all day , electric blanket on getting high on some home grown whilst watching porn interspaced wit bouts of COD Black Ops .
Hell , I could do that for years and not worry about anything , apart from if the old mans remembered to upgrade the Broadband to Fibre Optic and picked up my Monster Munch .

Just some ideas , thats all. Do nothing , Do something .

Hes probably a good kid but all he hears on the radio is all the doom and gloom about the economy , and lack of jobs so has decided there are no jobs .

At least he has a Dad who cares enough to post on here for some ideas /inspiration .

The Aus / Nz trip sounds best though, better than **** yourself blind

Rob – with respect it’s too easy to drive them away by being too dictatorial. Different kids need different handling.

all he hears on the radio is all the doom and gloom about the economy , and lack of jobs so has decided there are no jobs .

Petty sure it is reality that has decided their are very few jobs and he is working PT like many people his age affected by underemployment as well as unemployment.
In the past they did retail jobs and the like whilst they decided what to do but they cannot even get those. I work getting folk into employment and it is very very tough. I know lots of folk who would work given the chance who knows what the son would do if there were opportunities.
Its the first time I have known in over a decade where you cannot guarantee work for folk willing to do anything.

who knows what the son would do if there were opportunities.

Hmm well I’m sure it’s pretty tough these days but there are jobs and they’ll go to those that put the effort in to get them.

Yes yes all the 1 million young people who are unemployed just lack a bit of get up and go – I bow to your expertise in this area.

You could literally make millions for yourself if you had the answer as the govt are spending billions on the work programme – why not share your ideas with the experts who are failing to get folk into work.

FWIW Its the first time I would disagree with your statement though. There has always been work for folk willing to do anything but not these days.

Mine was similar until 3 months ago when he got to 23 and now has a baby and a house and a job at the council.

Drove me mad for years. His mother is a bit less aggressive than me with him, and that was very wise of her (she is the wise one in the house).

He is a talented, “kind of sponsored” rider (gets frames and parts, shoes and clothes and comp entries, but no money) and was only focussed on getting paid for riding. He is skilled enough, but it was never really gonna happen, but we didn’t want to take that dream away just in case it could happen.

Basically he just needed the time to sort himself out (at my expense!!!) and that is what he’s done.

You just need to suck it up and try to give him stability and support, not confrontation.

Not easy, but they are a different breed these days.

I blame the advent of the dishwasher.

If he doesn’t want to go to Australia with you can I come instead?

Yes yes all the 1 million young people who are unemployed just lack a bit of get up and go – I bow to your expertise in this area.

I think you might be getting a little tired so not thinking as well as you normally do…you see there are some jobs and they’ll go to those that apply for them – not those that don’t. Not enough for all though I’m sure.

**** Hermanshake just got me in a nutshell. I enjoy care work, support work, getting a pretty good idea of what I enjoy doing (behavioral intervention/occupational therapy) but I’m still at home being a bum being a ****

& junkyard +1 – currently work 17hr shifts not doing much but I was bloody lucky & happy to get this job, only 3days a week @ 6ph, hopefully if I save I’ll be able to afford a night out on my birthday. I went for a TA job at wilmslow high school, within a week it had 700+ applicants 200+ with phd’s masters etc, go figure.

Mudshark bet your parents paid your tuition fees & first car.

Mudshark 1 mil+ unemployed 19-25! Any jobs go to those older, more experienced etc or any lower paid jobs go the young ‘uns. You try getting a job aged 19/20 in a petrol station, shop, farm etc.

>Mudshark bet your parents paid your tuition fees & first car.

How much would you wager?

I worked at McDonalds whilst at college until I went to Uni, that paid for my 1st car and some more to help pay my way. My parents are not well off at all but I am I suppose.

McDonalds, and the like, are great places for those that don’t have much in the way of academic achievements to get into work – not just employment but potentially a career.

the tough love idea is interesting because it seems the pertinant question here is tough for who? why would you only charge ten pounds a week, for example, and then let him get behind on even that? what does that mean? what does that constitute as an action? nothing! it’s just a indicator of a vague awareness that you needed to do something. I am not even necessarily an advocate of this economic-reality idea of child rearing, but consistancy boundaries and discipline are vital! it sounds like you sleepwalk into these family dramas (there are two in this thread) that you talk about, and only vaguely wake up when it goes beyond fixing. I know that that isn’t what people will think, and i know that many people get on without a-levels, for example. But in your care this child has passed up on the golden opportunity of education, that is a huge loss, even if it is only first time round. what were you doing?! snoozing, i’d suggest. I think it is you that is the problem here: wake up!

mudshark –a ‘career’ in mc donalds– you say its a great place for one– that can only be a troll attempt!

Junkyard – Member
Yes yes all the 1 million young people who are unemployed just lack a bit of get up and go

If you’re in a group being chased by a lion, you dont need to outrun the lion, only the others in the group.

Confucius Stoner off to bed now.

>mudshark –a ‘career’ in mc donalds– you say its a great place for one– that can only be a troll attempt!

Do you know anything about McDonalds? Well obviously you don’t. It is possible to become management from joining at the bottom with lots of training along the way. Once at that level you could switch to another company with the experience gained.

If you’re in a group being chased by a lion, you dont need to outrun the lion, only the others in the group.

true but due to the high numbers of unemployed and under employed if you are young it is inevitable someone with more experience will apply for the job. You have little to no work experience, no real skills and not really sure what you want to do…who would a hard nosed business person pick ? In reality they are the slow ones with a limp and trying hard wont guarantee they escape

cannot comment on McD’s directly but their website for vacancies asks for the following for trainee managers.

Ardwick Trainee Manager Ardwick

Job Location: Ardwick Green, Greater Manchester, UK

Employment Type: Full Time
Restaurant: Ardwick

You’ll be working alongside the franchised restaurant management team. Many of our franchises have £million plus turnover and employ a team of 60 or more people. You’ll help set targets; manage budgets and control stock, as well as assisting in the recruitment, training and inspiration of Crew Members. A franchised restaurant is a restaurant operated by a local business person trading under the McDonald’s name. Currently half of our restaurants in the UK are franchised but from a customer point of view there’s no difference. For employees there will be minor differences between a company and a franchised restaurant. Please refer to additional information for more details.

Requirements:
You’re a graduate – or someone with bags of ambition and at least 2 years relevant management experience under your belt

Attributes:
We’ll give you the knowledge, skills and confidence. Apply determination, hard work and ambition, and you could make Restaurant Manager within just four years. You’ll be someone who is open, outgoing, up for the challenge and has good people skills. On top of that you’re the type of person who goes the extra mile and always looks for what they can learn from other people. As this is a people-led business, you’ll be a good listener and a team player who is adaptable, open to change and open-minded.

As the parent of two year old and a one year old boys, this thread scares the bejebus out of me. Should have a warning in the title. 😯

Ermm.. – 10pounds…

Aye, tried McD’s a few times, they’ve got various in house training, pub quiz, 5 a-side teams etc one the better options going atm.

Everyone always has a story like but one of me mates went straight in to working full time at the co-op (38hrs broken into 4 days) no college or uni but he’s heads & shoulders above any of us ‘educated’ +23k a year w/o overtime, has his own home – right at this moment I wish I’d just got a job & not gone to uni, I thought I was too go for pleb work. Turns out I much prefer pleb work/proper graft/hours etc

I’m 36, outwardly successful. And I’m wasting my life.

Right now (at 11.45pm), I’m posting on here, in between doing all the work I didn’t have time to do earlier today. I’m ill and tired and wil go another night without much sleep.

It’s not exactly an incentive, is it?

> Requirements:
> You’re a graduate – or someone with bags of ambition and at least 2 years
> relevant management experience under your belt

I’m not sure what you’re getting at – they recruit grads as trainee managers and also promote from within. The programmes they have are great really – you know all those stars the employees wear? They indicate progression. They can become floor managers, takes effort for sure.

McDonalds is a great example of “buy into the corporate culture, and you’ll progress”. Of course, if slacking off is all you ever want, then it’s only ever a McJob.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at – they recruit grads as trainee managers and also promote from within.

Well that really, as i said I could not comment directly but it supported your view and I had a look because I did not know.
I dont know what you mean by stars they wear as a vegan its not the sort of place I frequent. Are they like military medals or boy scout badges 😉

Does not mean its easy to get a job there though. Its a few years ago and it does have the highest % of teenagers in the UK but[ when i called to speak about jobs] there were over 500 applications on file at the local Mc D’s. How typical this is I dont know.

Re: Duane

Blocked during the week (Sunday night to Friday day) all social networking, Facebook, virtualbark, messenger, Vampirefreaks (don’t ask). that was all done using Opendns.org

The router we got with BT Infinity allows me to set times when each device can get onto the Internet, so school nights all the kids devices, xbox, ipods, computers get cut off at 10pm.

The reason for her return, “I’ve got an exam on Thursday and I won’t study for it if I’m not at home”

I think you have to be careful not to push your child into a life you want but they don’t. As a parent it would destroy me to think I had sentenced me child to a life of unhappiness.

I second ourmaninthenorth. Education isn’t everything. I wish I had followed my ambitions of becoming an army officer instead of going to uni. I work silly hours so I can get my kids to uni so they can get a similar job to mine and work silly hours to get their kids to uni. Crazy.

OP you need to discover what motivates him and you can only do this by talking and listening to him. As a bloke you will struggle with the listening part as we (blokes) generally want to provide solutions.

Ignore the draconian cut off access stuff go and sit in his room (knock first you want to set the atmosphere right from the start) while he’s on-line, fragging his mates on COD or whatever. Talk about what he’s doing on-line, how he’s doing with his mates etc. Make him feel you value him for who he is.

It will take a while depending on how low his confidence/esteem is. Once you find a fulcrum and the necessary lever some guidance on life choices will be possible but it’s going to take time and patience. You might want to point out that parents don’t get a manual for the new child and have to discover stuff as you go along.

Lastly some training I did a long while ago pointed out that you can’t force change other people only yourself.

Good luck and as Emsz pointed out above he’s not in trouble and has a job so the door is part open.

I would also insist on a regular eating regime, a good balanced diet with plenty of fresh food and vegetables. Also, seeing as he’s a teenager, perhaps a blood test would be in order. Certainly a high dose of vit D would help.

ourmaninthenorth – Member
I’m 36, outwardly successful. And I’m wasting my life.

Right now (at 11.45pm), I’m posting on here, in between doing all the work I didn’t have time to do earlier today. I’m ill and tired and wil go another night without much sleep.

It’s not exactly an incentive, is it?

This in an incredibly pertinent post, well written Sir. If we ever meet I shall buy you a beer.

sandwich– top advice!

cinnamon girl– you are right, but as you know talking a horse to wate and making it drink are two different tings.

Mudshark– i do know about Mcd’s — i know a manager, a franchisee, and a number of ex-‘crew’– its not an environment that is any way healthy for body or soul. You will disagree, coming from another part of the spectrum, but the reality is that like football only a very tiny percentage ‘progress’ up the greasy pole — and to do that must have sold their souls long ago– have you ever thought that some people will not do unethical stuff because they have a different moral compass to you ?

Ourmaninthenorth—nails the corporate lie– i feel for you, and am glad that i’m outwardly poor….

Regime change is needed here, clearly, but it’s all about how you can go about it – you need a velvet revolution. 20 yo lad dossing in his w_nk pit 24/7 is just not acceptable by anyone’s standards – it’s hardly being a disciplinarian to point that out.
You can’t just start laying down the law, though – bit like at work where a bad manager might put up with woeful performance for years, they can’t just turn round tomorrow and say WTF is your problem and expect that to solve anything.

I think you’ve just got to make clear your love and support for him in his endeavours, with maybe a frank discussion over what that latter word might mean for him. As rough as it is in the job market for young lads, he has mobility (in principle – many don’t).

he’s wasting his life is he?

so he’s 19, but somehow compared to the majority of teenagers out there has managed to get a part time job. he spends time on the internet like everyone posting on this forum does, he’s in a band (good for him, if nothing comes from it then he’s had fun with friends being creative, if something does then he’ll get the chance to travel with friends, performing on stages).

he doesn’t want to talk to you…. when i was 19 i didn’t particularly want to talk to my dad. my dad was meant to be my role model according to society but i didn’t particularly like the person he was at the time after my parents separation.

if he’s getting a ‘i think you’re wasting your life’ vibe off of you as a dad then being 19 i’d fully expect him to be making a point of visibly wasting his life just to wind you up 😆 it’s his life to waste and i’m guessing in his opinion he’s probably not wasting it.

all this stuff about blocking the internet and stuff would only make me want to spend more time at a bandmates house if i was 19.

at the same time as saying all this i’m a firm believer in being as financially responsible for oneself as possible, i’d probably be going along the lines of upping the rent a bit and if he’s not already making him responsible for buying all his own clothes, trainers, music stuff etc.

I’m 36, outwardly successful. And I’m wasting my life.

As above, good post.

I’m not sure I’d want to force my daughters into soul destroying jobs, when there’s an alternative. Personally I find some jobs so awful I don’t know if I could keep my sanity in tact whilst doing them.