the organisations who claim that supplements are of no benefit are the same ones that tell you that you must take a whole host of drugs to lower your risk of heart disease, stroke etc when there is masses of evidence showing that exercise and a good nights sleep are just as effective.

If you’re referring to NICE, then you’re absolutely right – a lot of people would be better off if they did some exercise, lost weight and reduced their risk factors that way, and NICE do recognise that in their guidance. Fact is a.) most people don’t stick to exercise plans for any length of time and b.) their risk is still reduced further by the drugs.

Most things in life are not simple. Posting wiki articles about toxicity of vitamins is like posting articles of water toxicity, a waste of time.

Agreed. That wiki article on Vit D states: “Based on risk assessment, a safe upper intake level of 250 µg”

NHS suggest a 10 µg supplement.

So basically that means your argument is.. “Ooh if you take more than 25 times the recommended amount every day then it might do you harm. So it’s not really that simple!”

As kudos says, same goes for water. And just about anything else!

Most things in life are not simple. Posting wiki articles about toxicity of vitamins is like posting articles of water toxicity, a waste of time.

Are you saying that water toxicity doesn’t occur then?

Medicine is a bit like religion, lots of dogma and black and white thinking. I cannot really be arsed with getting into a debate about supplementing certain vitamins.

That’s because, in this day and age, the blinded randomised control trial is considered a gold-standard. There are things that simply are black and white. However, for some situations, we simply don’t know what’s wrong / right and I think most physicians would be the first people to admit when we genuinely didn’t know the answer to a question.

“I can’t be bothered to argue” isn’t an argument btw.

Most things in life are not simple. Posting wiki articles about toxicity of vitamins is like posting articles of water toxicity, a waste of time.

I am, as I have suggested before, pointing out that the situation is not as simple as it is being portrayed.

Let me guess you either work in traditional medicine or believe in it wholeheartedly?

Why is what I do an issue?

Medicine is a bit like religion, lots of dogma and black and white thinking.

Flawed though it may be, it is the best bet we have at present and is continually trying to get better at what it does.

I cannot really be arsed with getting into a debate about supplementing certain vitamins.

Your presence here would suggest you are talking shite.

Are you saying that water toxicity doesn’t occur then?

I think he is saying (rightly IMO) that claiming that “things aren’t so simple” because huge amounts of regular vitamin D are bad for you is a little spurious.

Most folk would accept that drinking water is good for you, despite the fact that drinking huge amounts would kill you.

See also: practically anything ingested to an extreme level. 😀

But people seem quite content to suggest vitamin supplementation, and in some cases over and above any ‘recommended’ daily intake yet no thought is given to the effects that may occur from such actions.

As noted above, there is research which suggests that vitamin use is not without harm, yet none of the advocates seem to urge any caution.

So, ad nauseam; it’s not as simple as is being portrayed.

Ironically, we’re arguing over Vitamin D, which is actually the one supplement with some evidence that some (otherwise-healthy) people are likely to need. We’ve just glossed over all the bullshit around Iron/Vitamin B/C/Zinc/Selenium/antioxidants etc which was the original focus of the thread.

I’m sure there would be more money in being a quack, rather than an actual, doctor. I’m saying extreme quantities of argon gas are the Next Big Thing. It works for me and anyone who argues is just an arrogant puppet of The Man.

enough said

First let me FTFY:

enough said

Secondly can I point out that it says the same as was said earlier: overdosing on vitamins is bad for your (duh!). That’s not the same as saying vitamins are bad for you (duh!). He even mentions over-dosing on water – as was mentioned earlier.

Also note that the article specifically mentions the NICE Vitamin D advice:

Vitamin D for all pregnant and breastfeeding women, children aged six months to five years, people aged 65 and over and for people who are not exposed to much sun, for example people who cover up their skin for cultural reasons, or people who are housebound for long periods of time.

Most of us don’t get enough sun. The weather is crap and we sit in offices all day long.

“Healthy diet” should be enough? Hmm.. from the article..

Vitamin D – needed for strong teeth and bones; found in margarine and oily fish

That doesn’t sound much like my diet. Yours?

Yes I eat oily fish. Not margarine.

Oh and nothing wrong with my teeth (no filings for 15+ years) and never yet broken a bone (famous last words). I’m in my 50s.

Yes I eat oily fish. Not margarine.

I eat oily fish too – but not every day!

(100 grams of sardines is less than half of your Vitamin D RDA)

it is impossible for adults to get sufficient vitamin D from diet alone, no matter how good their nutrition. Therefore, Osteoporosis Canada recommends routine vitamin D supplementation for all Canadian adults year round.
— http://www.osteoporosis.ca/osteoporosis-and-you/nutrition/vitamin-d/

it is almost impossible to get all the vitamin D you need through diet alone.
— http://www.mssociety.org.uk/ms-news-and-research/ms-research/potential-treatments/emerging-areas-of-research/vitamin-d

Please please please can we stop associating “vitamins” and cycling

Cycling has no special nutritional needs over and above any other normal healthy pursuits.

for too long drugs were falsely described as “vitamins” – please stop

On “Trust me I’m a doctor”, BBC2 now, iPlayer later

I can’t believe there is a three page thread on stw about vitamins and no one has yet suggested:

Kalium Kalzium
Eisen Magnesium
Mineral Biotin
Zink Selen L-Carnitin
Adrenalin Endorphin
Elektrolyt Co-Enzym
Carbo-Hydrat Protein
A-B-C-D Vitamin

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dx5xCAyZyBw#t=138[/video]

😀

Edit, moved to new thread.

Not sure if it counts as a vitamin, but has anyone had any experience of Ateronon? Got given a pack in a recent sportive goody-bag and it claims:

..has been proven to improve blood flow by increasing arterial flexibility by up to 53% in just 60 days, allowing more oxygen to be quickly transported to your muscles – boosting performance