Vintage road/mtb frames with modern components – do-able?

i know nothing much about vintage road bikes, or mtb – but quite like the look of some of the frames i’ve seen, esp. a classic specialized hard tail, and a recent viewing of a roady Gazelle champion steely….
and was wondering just how easy/hard is it to put modern stuff on them,

i know that the older road bikes used some kind of quill headset system – easy to convert? what about vintage mtb – can you still put on modern forks are they mostly 1 1/8?

easy to slap on a shimano rear mech and 9 speed (at least) on the rear hanger? do they even have hangers like today?

wheels – hub widths – are they the same widths as current mtb and road standards? i seem to see on googles that older bikes had smaller widths – does this mean specific wheels??

finally brakes – for sure, no disc tabs on older mtb – is it canti only? and i assume road bikes still use the same type of brakes as always?

just looking for anyone whos got experience….

Road is reasonably easy, you may have to use a quill stem but most things should fit with little or no difficulty.

MTB is more difficult, again, a quill stem may be required or you could fit modern forks though that is difficult if you have a 1″ steerer. You’re also going to have to run v-brakes or canti’s as most won’t have disc mounts. You’ll find the geometry a tad steep too.

thanks lunge

sheldon b, has a good article on it
upgrade vintage bikes

might end up down the Road route, although the article above does confirm that the rear hub width is different and can be a right pain – i’d have to find a wheel of that width, then stick a 6 or 7 cassette on it – then of course match an STI to it, unless a 9 speed would work and just have a few “empty” shifts…
although gives me an idea of a single up front and custom 7 cassette at the back……

still have – a couple as it happens – M2 Stumpjumpers.
One a front sus. MTB, the other a training bike.

disc OK up front, but accept that its V brake at rear at least. Mine are both new enough (98) to be aheadset.

One problem will also be tyres – clearance is limited to 2.1s tops, which may cause some surprises (or worn chain stays). I like them – also have a 1995 Kona) but eventually will upgrade to a disc based MTB if only for winter riding to save on rims!!

I found it difficult restoring an old Claude Butler – not just the stem and bar diameters but long-drop calipers for the brakes etc. Wasn’t worth it in the end, sadly. I did the same for a Cannondale Killer V a while back and that also worked out far more expensive than first thought.

If you don’t want to use canti or V brakes you can always fit Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes. I use them on my 1988 Kona Explosif, with the rear inverted to fit on U brake bosses.
Forks will be your only problem if you have a 1″ head tube but Konas were 1 1/8th from the early nineties. As were most other makes. Geometry will be steeper than nowadays, for sure, but only around 71 degrees head angle, 73 ST so perfectly usable.
I’m using the original P2 forks on the Explosif, Magura Raceline brakes and 3×9 drivetrain + tubeless tyres. It’s still a very nice bike, in my opinion anyway, and it gives young people a laugh when I turn up with it on a group ride. And then it doesn’t, once they realize that a 27 year old bike actually can still go damn well.

Some older road bikes have a 126mm rear hub spacing, so you need to get the right hub size. standard 130mm can fit as the steel will flex, but it may make the rear mech out of line. I’d leave the quill stem arrangement as it is. There are loads of parts available for older road standards so you can keep as is. Hubs and stem aside, you can put a modern groupset on an old frame just fine, external BB will work as will everything else. You just need to choose your groupset wisely (i.e. classic campag) otherwise it’ll look awful. Clearance on classic road race frames is likely to be tight too – 23mm max if you’re lucky.

Just so happens my brother has done this here:
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=267358

I absolutely don’t want to put you off, but I once bought a nice old steel road bike for about GBP150. After I’d spent another GBP600, I had a heavy, flexy bike with lousy brakes and very annoying gears. It wasn’t an experience I’m keen to repeat.

🙂

I have an old Alan frame ( my first road bike)that I am going to use as a SS commuter.
The only thing I changed was to put a Quill Adapter [/url] on.

On the MTB side of things it all depends on the age of the frame. If you’re looking at mid 90’s and newer you shouldn’t have much trouble at all as most kit will be fit and 80/100mm forks shouldn’t throw the geometry out too much.

If looking before this you might run in to more trouble as you might have to contend with 1″ headsets, 130mm spaced rear wheels, strange seat post sizes that are difficult to find and other issues. Still do’able, just more difficult. Don’t worry about quill stems and threaded headsets as they work fine and if you want to change them it’s no more difficult than replacing any other headset.

As long as you don’t get carried away there’s no reason why it should cost too much either.

@BigDummy
thanks for that response, thats kinda my fear!!!!

as much as i’d like to source lovely blingy vintage components, i’d rather start off with modern cheap stuff i already own, and replace over time, as the bike(s) will get used rather than sit in the shed waiting on some 1986 brake part to turn up on ebay….

The complete vintage road stuff – poor gears and brakes is not somewhere I’d want to go but from the late eighties there were indexed gears and good brakes so maybe stick to that point or (like I have) put some reasonably new gears/brakes onto an older frame.

I have a ’96 Kona Cinder Cone with 1×9 gears and a modern Fox 80mm fork. I have a front disc brake and a Magura on the back. It rides really nicely and the front disc doing most of the braking means it’s not really a disadvantage.
Best of both worlds, having modern gear on an older frame.

Oh, and I have a 2.2 tyre on the back with still a bit of clearance, the old Kona’s were designed really well 🙂

Quill stem adaptor allows use of an aheadset stem I use one on the TT bike with no problems.

I’m riding a 1987 Cannondale touring frame and forks with 100% modern everything else. A quill adapter and the rest of it just works fine (9 speed Sora).

1996 Trek roadie here.
Paid £120, ended up spending another £400.

I wish I’d just bought a new one, tbh.

It’s easy enough on the road.

Shimano wheels have enough spacers that you can convert 130mm hubs down to 126mm.

Quill stems come in a variety of handlebar diameters, so you should be able to either find some that match the quill or find shims to suit. Either way it’ll be between 22 and 26mm, not oversize. I’d avoid adapters, 1″ stems are rarer than quills! The other alternative is have the steerer changed to A-headset (not particularly cheap) and run a 1-1.125″ shim.

Long drop brakes are available, they’re marked up as Shimano R600 rather than ultegra for example, not sure what Campagnolo do.

I’d avoid adapters, 1″ stems are rarer than quills!

Shims, aren’t tough to find with adaptors IME.

Worst thing about that set up though it the flex – won’t bother many though I am sure.

Steel 126mm rear ends (80s and before) can easily be re spaced. adaptors for cable stops on gear lever bosses are easy to find.

Older road bikes can be given a new lease of life with a bit of ‘modernising’ – i’m now riding my 1989 colnago more than ever thanks to an update to modern 10 speed running gear, but keeping a nice retro feel with bars/stem, etc.

In fact i’m riding this more than all my ‘modern’ bikes – something about this frame means it’s a great ride..

colnago by jon bawden[/url], on Flickr

I’ve got an early 1960s Holdsworth Mistral frame that is going to be repurposed – it is off to have its dropouts changed an be cold set tomorrow (111mm). I recon if you went to buy a similar frame new would be at least £800 (the Planet X ‘Holdsworth’ frames)so it is worth the saving and bringing up to date.

so wheres the best place to find these beauties—-
ive been hawking retrobike
and ebay seem to have quite a few, but they seem overpriced some of em.
saying that i might be looking at some 80’s TdF frame and wouldnt know it 🙂

@zascar – thats exactly kinda thing i want for a roadie – as for MTB version, not too sure just yet

Many are overpriced!

Work pretty well IME, much less so for mtbs.

FXYO knows

http://fyxo.co/reports/the-campagnolo-project/#1

With a mtb with no disk mounts also consider Sturmey-Archer drum brakes. With decent cables they are reasonably good, better control than V-brakes, with crap cables they are crap – but that applies to all cable brakes. Maguras are good but hell on your rims if you have gritty mud.

With classic steel road bikes (50s to mid 70s) the thing to remember is that many of them had flexy rear ends (deliberately) so the micro movements of a modern derailleur may be upset by lateral movement in the chain stay under pressure. Anyway 5 speed at the back and 2 at the front is enough for any purpose in the UK.

There’s nothing wrong with period quality centrepull brakes, there’s no need to use modern brakes, just fit decent brake blocks and cables.

Proportion is important to get a decent ride – most old bikes used far less seatpost than is used now – basically look at frames that appear to be a size or two up from what you’d use now, or that you could ride with about 4 fingers of seatpost. That gets you the right length of TT and reach with the appropriate stem.

Shimano wheels have enough spacers that you can convert 130mm hubs down to 126mm.

Yep, and they can be converted up to 135mm if you want to use one in a touring frame. Just need to fit an MTB axle and an extra spacer.

I’ve got a Gazelle Champion Mondial AB (Reynolds 531) like you mentioned, I went full retro on it – Campag naturally – but whilst I was building it up I put modern Shimano 105 on it and it worked fine. As has been said, a 130mm wheel will go into a 126mm rear end fairly easy.

Personally I like the downtube shifters and friction shifting, and with modern compound pads the braking isn’t that bad either. The older components look so much nicer too, the Campagnolo Nuevo Record rear mech is a thing of beauty!

If you can find one I’d highly recommend a Gazelle Champion Mondial, really nice frames and pretty cheap (have a look on the LFGSS forum).

@aether531
wahoooooo LFGSS is a treasure trove 🙂
thanks for that!

Old MTB with modern kit on it you say?

How about a NOS Klein Adroit with Shimano Di2?

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150085

I’ve ridden with the guy and his bikes are amazing. He rides them all too!

@back2basics no worries. Also if you’re in London check out Brick Lane Bikes, they have loads of lovely old steel road frames for sale.

Brick Lane Bikes have a website – in fact, some of their own brand steel fully made up bikes look pretty reasonable price wise 🙂

for mtb the short answer is yes.

headset – make sure the frame has an inch eighth headtube for a modern fork. Inch sus forks are hard to find as are inch quarter. the headtube might also be marginly steeper but to be honest there’s little difference and you do just ‘get used to it’. I have 100mm magura durins on a 1994 bike originally designed for 80-90mm forks and it makes little difference to the ride position.

gear hangers are pretty much gear hangers.

brakes – if you fit a new fork it’ll probably have disk tabs so at least the front brake can be disk. Rear disks are tougher. A few adapters were available to fit disks to frames without disk mounts but they can be a faff as it will depend a little on the design of the frame rear dropouts.

I’d send you over to the retrobike but they tend to be more keen to restore old bikes to their original state, not with modern stuff. I kind of mix and match and have both old and new stuff all mixed up. what works works, what doesn’t has been replaced over the years.

Definitely possible, and if it’s done right it looks amazing! Something like this.

Ohhh dear, the bar has been raised!

@everyone

what a f***ing link that is……….jeez – not sure im going that far 🙂
although……………..

You buggers, I’m looking for 90s MTBs now 😆 😡

98 Zaskar with 3×9, formula disc on the front, still and XTR V on the back which is good enough to do back hops but I want to get a disc on there, there’s no disc mounts on this vintage so I’m going to get an A2Z adapter at some point, plus wheel etc etc

I quite fancy a new fork at some point too, this one’s an ancient Judy XC 100mm which is starting to go but still works for now. Dunno what to get to replace it, any suggestions anyone?

hmmm not seen those adapters before – must be for steel and alu frames only though? and mtb, as thin chain stays on the road bike would not take that strain?

certainly gives a great option for older bikes ……

there are less and less excuses not to start a mtb or road or both vintage project now….

hmmm not seen those adapters before – must be for steel and alu frames only though? and mtb, as thin chain stays on the road bike would not take that strain?

I’m confident the stays would be OK for normal use, you could even do it properly and get Mercian or Argos to braze a mount on, but you’t never find a fork with a 1″ steerer for disc brakes on a road bike, so the points fairly moot.

Ok so its not a vintage mtb but this seems a ggod example of on and old frame being brought up to date. link

Or this! ’97 Kona steel frame with disc tabs welded on, modern bits and a dropper post. link