[Closed] vEveresting... hmm..thinking thinking.... Also - you be the DJ!

Sounds like a challenge! I reckon everything depends on how fast you want to do it (predictably enough). If you want to tick it off, go up 75% each time, say, then that's a massive ride but the biggest issue will be turbo discomfort.

If you want to do it as fast as you can, though, so your name ring out on the streets of zwift, then that is brutal hard and will take some prep as to what is possible.

I guess you can do a sub 50 Alpe? What were you thinking of hitting on the Everest?

I thought about doing it but because of my weight and doing it at 100% and the amount of time it would take me I didn't want to potentially overheat my turbo at a time when getting a replacement might be an issue. You are pretty light and quick though so I would go for it.

Happy to keep you company on an ascent. My 100% effort will prob be the same speed as your 60% effort!

I've not done a sub 50 alpe (I think i did 53 or 55min) , but... this won't be a race, more of a steady paced climb effort...

THe Turbo overheating..hmm..not thought of that as an issue... a few people on the Tacx groups hav made xtra fans for theirs!! I've got good airflow through my kitchn, so should be fine..

What were you thinking of hitting on the Everest?

Don't know..need to look into it.

If i did ventoux, I reckon to 90-100 min per climb max.
20 min descending (?)
so 6 x 120 min (I could aim for a MAX of 2 hours per lap...) 12 hours...

DrP

Happy to jump on and help you on one of the ascents, it will be only one cos I will be dead after that trying to keep up with you!! But if you are okay for a slowish one then I'll help where I can.

I can't imagine 8.5 times up the Alpe...well done on having a go!

Oh and tunes....
"The only way is up!" - Yazz and the Plastic Population
"Road to Nowhere" - Talking heads

You get the idea....;)

THe Turbo overheating..hmm..not thought of that as an issue… a few people on the Tacx groups hav made xtra fans for theirs!! I’ve got good airflow through my kitchn, so should be fine..

It wont be an issue for you I think. In order to simulate 100% the turbo basically applies a brake and the heavier you weigh the more it has to apply that brake. So for heavy guys like me it can be an issue but for your weight you should be fine. It then gets compounded as the heavier you are the longer it takes and the hotter it gets!

if you go up 8.5 times you might as well do 9. And don't forget that Everest got a bit higher recently!

Keep eating constantly as well. Save the gels for later on in the ride when you are knackered - try and use real food early on!

Keep eating constantly as well. Save the gels for later on in the ride when you are knackered – try and use real food early on!

I was struggling to sleep last night, so was thinking out a meal strategy!! Scotch eggs... flap jack..2 bite pies etc were all whizzing around my mind!

I'm still undecided on the climb..
AdZ, or ventoux...

DrP

Of course, trainer difficulty has to be 100%,

you want to tick it off, go up 75% each time,

I know nothing about Zwift.
What is this effort percentage of which you speak?

I find the Alpe difficult to manage my effort on, I'd be heading to Ventoux simply because I found it easier to pace myself up..

I have no intention of trying this though, so I'm not sure why I'm providing my thoughts.

Well done for even contemplating trying it.

I know nothing about Zwift.
What is this effort percentage of which you speak?

Trainer difficulty is virtual gearing. You can adjust it so the hills don't feel like hills but the avatar still slows down according to the power you are outputting. There are various reasons for doing this - it may be that your bike doesn't have the right gearing, your turbo trainer doesn't produce the correct gradient simulation etc. It can also help to limit the amount of shifting you do on the turbo bike whilst still maintaining the power.

The 75% is I assume the percentage of FTP at which he plans to do it (so 0.75 intensity factor) as a percentage of threshold. This would normally be around 60-70% for a ride of this type possibly even lower. There are a few blog posts on Zwift Insider that discuss this .

Sounds like a plan @DrP. I reckon AdZ will be easier mentally as it has turn numbers and you can break it down into sections easier. It'll also mean more descents which are plenty long enough for a stretch, loo etc. I think you'd cool down too much on the Ven Top descent.

Have a read up on Keegan Swenson's IRL attempt and the issue he looked at:

Cyclingnews linky

Consistent cadence is key so can we suggest music in the 80-100 bpm range?:)

Ref: trainer difficulty: Anyone joining doesn't need to have theirs at 100%. It won't make the climb harder at 100% just more realistic in terms of resistance. Watts and specifically, VAM are what they are in Zwift.

Happy to join you for a lap or two...

I know nothing about Zwift.
What is this effort percentage of which you speak?

It's a confusing term that has not much to do with difficulty - it's just a virtual gearing that zwift uses. It has been decreed by the Keepers of standards that any vEveresting attempt must use 100% TD for you to be added to the Book of Heroes. Because this most closely simulates the feel of climbing a steep hill on zwift.

Effort percentage is just that - how hard would you do each ascent of the Alpe, which is ca. 1000m? Most people would want to take it pretty steady, but more time spent on the trainer is its own challenge as it can get painfully uncomfortable after several hours.

If you're going to do it on Zwift, do a proper job of it and just do the climbing, road to the sky, restart it every time you hit the banner. The whole point of doing it on Zwift is it's not the same as outside and it'll save you at least 2hrs 😂.

I'll be honest if I were to do it I might be tempted to switch between the two, I'd certainly not be doing Venn top over and over though, there's just no real sense of progress or anything the whole way up, at least the alpe has defined and measurable points as you go.

I’m still undecided on the climb..
AdZ, or ventoux…

You did La Reine at the weekend, which is the worst parts of Ventoux, the last 5km is pretty easy, how did you find it? Was it easier to pace than the Alpe or not?

I think the segments are good for keeping focus on the Alpe and providing a stimulus, but with Ventoux there is that thing in your head where you are not doing it as many times...

Consistent cadence is key so can we suggest music in the 80-100 bpm range?:)

On an unrelated note, my interminable effort on la reine yesterday gave me time to pay more attention to numbers than I usually do and seemed to confirm a long held suspicion.

Your speed in zwift is, best I can tell, dependent on your cadence as well as power.

For a given power on a given gradient my speed dropped appreciably when cadence varied out of a range. At 80-90 rpm and 280w on the flat I had a speed about 12% higher than at 60rpm or 110rpm. Below or above that didn't seem to make any odds and it was only relatively small change between 75-80 and 90-95 but speed dropped away rapidly above and below that.

Not scientific I know in as much as I can only see a limited set of data and my 280w does wobble as does the gradient (which along with speed are whole numbers)

So TLDR you want to hold about 85rpm the whole time.

You did La Reine at the weekend, which is the worst parts of Ventoux, the last 5km is pretty easy, how did you find it? Was it easier to pace than the Alpe or not?

I found it pretty straightforward - it FEELS more steady..as in the lack of switchbacks loses the "climb..flat..climb" feel.

I guess I'll aim to do it/both on 100% difficulty, just to check i've the gears for it!

DrP

PS - no-one's added tunes yet!! clicky here for Spotify!

it all has to be one activity though @dangeourbrain (assuming DrP wants to go in the hall of fame). There are quite a few rules to it...

https://everesting.cc/virtual-everesting-rules/

Don't have an opinion on how cadence affects power in game on Zwift but my average for the PRL full was 93rpm.

When you setting a date for it?

my average for the PRL full was 93rpm

Yeah I'm very much a masher. Trying to improve my cadence but comfy for me is 70-75rpm, much above 80 and it's not fun for any length of time.

I'd be happy to join you for a run up one or other DrP.

@robbo1234biking "There are quite a few rules to it…" yeah, it's one of those things that seems less about the challenge of doing it and more about conforming to the arbitrary rules to me. Not sure the idea of 8000m appeals to me but the hoop jumping certainly not. After all, I'm a married man, I don't need any more ways to get black marks against my name for not following rules no one ever told anyone about that really only exist to catch people out.

Depending on when you do it I will happy join you for at least 1 ascent. From my PRL experience I would look join you later in the day if it worked with family commitments. Giggsmaster joined us towards the end and it really helped having someone fresh to pace us up.

Just out of interest - before having the vaccine did you having any thoughts about vEveresting? Just wondering what the potential side effects are...

@dangeourbrain lol.

The way that Zwift hates DrP it would crash in the last 100m of ascent and then wouldn't count as you say because of arbitrary rules!

Have a read of this. I rode 1 ascent with him as did a couple more Team JMC riders. The guy is unbelievably fit.

https://www.teamjmc.uk/2020/03/3-everesting-challenges-in-3-months-for-alan-colville/

@drp I think (but check!) that the alpe is better than ventoux for descending because there's no dead spot where you need to pedal, or less risk of that, or something. Anyway, I think the alpe is better suited to unsupervised descents, so better suited to having a break and letting the "bike" do its own cooperative thing in game. Can't remember the detail, but there is some, and if you go for it I think it's worth checking...

Otherwise, good luck. It's tough.

And if you are mentally benchmarking speed to work back to steady effort, you could certainly get up the alpe (once) in under 50 mins.

AdZ without a doubt for me. The hairpins and ascent breakdown will really help I imagine. Ven Top is a grind (just like in real life). AdZ would work much better for me I think.

I’d consider showering while the bike descends after every few ascents, and maybe even changing saddles or bikes - that length of time on a turbo can’t be good for the arse, back or undercarriage.

Hope you have a Netflix sub.

I wish they'd put a virtual actual Everest in Watopia, just so you could do it all in one go. It'd be fun to see the traffic thin out as you got to the top as more and more people bail.

Having recent memory of both climbs (the last two weekends), I'd opt for the Alpe. Those hairpins provide a nice bit of respite and as mentioned the descent has no dead spots.

I'll happily ride with you for a bit.

You do know that now you've put it out there, you've got no choice?!

@DrP - have you thought about how you'd prepare for this?

I could be tempted, but it's a big step up from Sunday Hills!

You do know that now you’ve put it out there, you’ve got no choice?!

ONe of the reasons I put it out there... 😉

I find that once I publicise something, it's a real motivator to go for it adn not embarrass myself.

My major fear would be 'injury' i.e a weeping butt sore, or some sort of twanged tendon, rather than 'not being fit enough'...

have you thought about how you’d prepare for this?

Good question; I feel I know my body well, and i'm confident that as long as I stay below the redline (wattage or HR), and keep up fuelling and drinking, I should be able to going for a long time.
Mentally, I jsut see it as 'sticking to 220 watts' (for example), and will acheive this with teh gears.. 220 watts on the hills is the same as 220 watts on the flat - it's just slower....
Having a strategy is key for long rides...
For example, this will obviously be broken down into ascent + descent = 1 lap.
Drink through the lap, Eat on the descent..
Change pants every 4 laps etc etc...

Also, I'm pretty good at just telling myself "this won't go on forever"...

I think the fitter you get, the better at 'in game recovery' you get... I.e I can wear myself out on the climb, and actively recover on teh descent... ready to go again.

When I did the SDW, i realised I could push hard on the climbs as there was ALWAYS a falt/descent after, to recoup on. This is similar.
I guess!!

DrP

I've had an inkling to do it but I'd need to get shot of the family for a bit to make it feasible. I'd be a very long time as I think I'd be looking at 90mins/rep on AdZ. Sensibly I'm thinking 16 hours.

I don't think there is any benefit to just doing reps of road to sky as the run in to the base of AdZ takes more effort and similar time to just freewheeling back down from the top so not only are you not rule compliant but it's more effort.

Have Zwift missed a trick here?

Why can't they just stick a virtual road up a virtual Everest?

With a bit added on for the altitude from sea level to the base of the climb, obvs.

They could even do a tie in with stanton and force Sherpas for the climb.

@DrP
Why take the easy way when you could round it up.
You know you want to.

Vertical Gain
– The 8,848m/29 029ft is taken as your total elevation gain.

– You may decide to push on past 8,848m to get to 10,000m, in which case your ride will also qualify for an Everesting 10K. It’s a two-for-one deal!

It's just another climb and a bit.. why bit! DrP

was thinking out a meal strategy!! Scotch eggs…

Isn't there some rule that says you have to down a pint for every Scotch egg?

I spent a bit of time analysing the two climbs for guys I coach who wanted to really go hard at it.

Ven top came out as better as the rests were longer giving more time to change shorts/admin etc. Although this only applies if your gears are small enough to spin at a comfortable cadence as it's got steeper sections.

I completed a "real world" everesting last year on my own, no support all day, just me and the hill on a car-free forest road. Get your nutrition sorted, pace it well at the start and be prepared for some serious "why am I doing this" self-questioning after a while once it stops being fun! Don't over-think the training, it's mind games as much as anything.

Good @Drp depending when you do it I'll try and join you for a lap, big challenge.

I've dropped some banging tunes on your playlist @DrP - a nice mix of dance, drum & bass with a couple of 80's power tracks and sprinkling of the Rocky soundtrack. Guaranteed success or your money back!

Thanks for the music chaps..
Righto...
I'm thinking I'll give this a go on Sunday 7th Feb... A PROPER "Sunday Hills" !!! eek!

I don't have my kids, and i've warned my OH that I'll be otherwise preocupied!!

I'm thinking that AdZ is the likely hill - mainly because
a - it's going to be busier, so a bit more motivating
b - it'll be easier for you lot to pop in and out, and then carry on riding if you wanted...

I've tried seeing if France will be the scheduled world that weekend, but Feb 2021 isn't visible yet...

So...
9 (nearly..will see ) times up Alpe Du Zwift.... here we come!

Will get a live stream up too, and have plenty of widgets showing the ascents etc etc!!!

DrP

Brave man doing it up the Alpe, I find that climb a lot harder than Ventoux, but then again I seem to suit (in my world) climbs like the latter anyway.

I did a 12hr (340km covered and every road in Watopia bar AdZ) Zwift back in April (for charity) and found the descending part of any hills, like the Epic KOM and Epic KOM reverse were great for a quick break / stretch / nature break and then back on it, I didn't change shorts, just used a bit of chamois cream (for the 2nd time ever) and just pedalled away with tunes on and a table next to me full of drinks and food.

Food wise I went for what I know works for me, sausage rolls, SiS bars, the odd gel, ready salted crisps and some Tangfastics, I didn't eat a huge amount, but then again I've found through racing 12's & 24's I don't need to.

I'm planning a virtual Everest at some point in the near future and it'll be based around when Ventop is available for sure, that or a bazillion times up the Epic KOM!

Tunes wise I'll be using what I normally use, MixCloud and Stephane Hirsts Kitchen Bangers

I’ll make sure I join you for a bit on the hill, added some tunes to yours too, and favourited if I add any tunes to my running or bike list between now and the 7th will add to yours too.

Wish you luck with the challenge.

I should be good to head up a couple of times with you at some point in the day DrP.

Assuming I'm good for anything at all anyhow.

best of luck, will pop along for ONE climb 😃

Suffering from a couple of badly placed saddle sores at the moment, probably helped on by the festive 500 and subsequent saddle time, I’m trying to prevent them from going full on cyst mode.

So I’ll see how I’m going by feb 8th, if it’s better I’ll join for 2 or 3 laps.

How will you go about it, can you make a meet up for the alpe alone to avoid any unnecessary lead ins? I’ve never managed to grab the light wheels yet so that would be an added bonus.

Good on you for trying it and hopefully you can avoid any mechanical or physical issues.

Judging by your usual musical choices you wouldn’t like my preferences so won’t mess up your playlist with them.

Good luck DrP. I will also join you for an ascent. Get @savoyad to update the Discord general text chat on that day to DrP's vEverest attempt. It worked really well for people joining later in the day on mine and @slowpuncheur PRL ride to keep the chat going and people to encourage you otherwise.

^This. Anything to distract you and kill a few minutes really helps 5 hours in.. @Kirky72 I think you should add to his Spotify list. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

OK, a text channel and a voice channel are both in place on the STW discord server. This is because meetups - and therefore the meetup chat - (if you do it as a meetup) are only accessible to joiners for the first 30 minutes. You'll need longer.

Here's a current invite https://discord.gg/6bkAZ9Ez but it'll expire tomorrow so I'll add a fresh one nearer the day.

Good luck @DrP. I'll try and join you for one of the earlier ascents.

Cheers all.. Kirky..
I'll probably make it a 'road to sky' meetup to start at 7am, then just keep doing laps.
I believe you can 'join a rider' when you log onto zwift, so you would actually start next to me wherever I am..

You could keep an eye on the live stream (which is a few seconds behind) to see where I am, and join mid descent for example, then ride up.... or whatever...

And yeah, stick any old music on..

I'll even had some podcasts on the go too i suspect.

I'll have a play with discord - thanks savoyad!

Good on you for trying it and hopefully you can avoid any mechanical or physical issues.

Yeah... the turbo should be fine.. I'll rub brufen on my knees (got dodgy lateral ligaments that can flare from time to time) and likely take pain killers through the day!!!!!

DrP

I’ll rub brufen on my knees (got dodgy lateral ligaments that can flare from time to time) and likely take pain killers through the day!!!!!

You should prob see a Doctor about that and not self prescribe 😉

... and that is how sad the State of Humanity became...

Riding up and down same hill. For 12h. On turbo trainer...

😀 😀 😀

Cheers!
I.

How do you all manage to sit on a turbo for that long? Now way i can get past 1.5 hrs without my arse going utterly dead.

join mid descent for example, then ride up…. or whatever…

I'll keep an eye out and join you at turn 3 to the top, then I can help you back down the hill...how's that sound?? 😉

How do you all manage to sit on a turbo for that long? Now way i can get past 1.5 hrs without my arse going utterly dead.

@Blackflag I found a rocker plate has really helped on my setup. That little bit of movement from side to side seems to work for me. I did 5 hours the other week with no saddle soreness.

I will upload a phot of ALL the saddles I've recently gotten through!!
Currently settled ona Specialized power shorty saddle!
Ergon... Fabric... Brooks... all on the pile of 'numb nadgers'!!

My new turbo (tacx neo 2t) also rocks a few degrees, which is nice.

I find the hours can fly by with zwift.

Lets see how this attempt goes, and whether I feel the same!!

DrP

Just googled rocker plates. Hmmmm....

Might see if i can cobble together a DIY version.

Just as random q...
What w/kg are you going to be aiming for? (on the climbs)

Very tempted to join you for the whole thing, but just wanted to see what sort of fitness level I'd be pacing against :).
It's one of those masochistic streak things that I've looked into, and never really set as a goal for myself.

I'm average fitness ~89kg, 260W FTP (~3w/kg).
Don't want to set myself up to never be able to keep up 🙂 .

Just googled rocker plates. Hmmmm….

Might see if i can cobble together a DIY version.

@scar4me...

I'll probably aim for max 3w/kg I guess....

Likely lower seeing as I'll need to keep it up...

Do join!

DrP

(edit - just seen that's your FTP level there... erm.. see how it goes.. I'll be honest.. I'll be sticking to my own pace for something like this. I know it sounds arsey perhaps, but for long endurance things, I'm loving people popping in and out, but TBH, I shant be waiting for anyone IF I@m above their pace... if you see what I mean..)

I'm not convinced I could stay with you even when you're in lap 7.!

@DrP completely understand.
It's a personal thing anyway, just wanted to see if it was worth me trying to keep up 😀

Will see how convincing the wife goes and make the call.
If I were doing it I'd probably be aiming to hold about 2-2.5w/kg for it.
Will just have to see.
It has definitely got me thinking about it!

Have you done many long rides (like 12hrs+) @scar4me? That seems like it would be more important than what your ftp is. I mean the more fitness the better, but the mentality of pressing on when you're 8 hrs in and really want to stop is what will determine success or failure. That and experience of sitting on the turbo for a long time.

added a few track for you. Good Luck!

@Garry_Lager I'm novice when it comes to long rides tbh.
But if you never try you never know.
And even if I fail the first time, I'll learn a lot about how\what to do better the next.

@Garry_Lager I’m novice when it comes to long rides tbh.
But if you never try you never know.
And even if I fail the first time, I’ll learn a lot about how\what to do better the next.

Yeah that's true, something to be said for just buying a few biscuit boosts and getting the show on the road. Let the chips fall where they may.

OTOH, a half-everest is something people do to see how they match up to the challenge. Get the trainer comfort dialled in, see if the vEverest is realistic or is going to need some more prep etc - there's a lot of discussion of half-Ev on line so you can see how others got on.

Riding up and down same hill.

That's the weird thing. From what little I understand about it, you don't actually ride down the hill.

I shant be waiting for anyone IF I@m above their pace… if you see what I mean.

@drp do we need to wait for you if we're just popping in or is it acceptable to try goad you into racing 😂

you can goad me all you can!!! The change in pace will be 'exciting' I guess!!!

DrP

Hmmm if only I thought I could manage to hold a pace these days which would actually be enough to do that!

@scar4me my advise would be to get some of the long Zwift routes likes Uber Pretzel or even full PRL ticked off first. Full PRL in particular was nearly 6 hours for me and messes with your head in as much as its laps of a circuit - so a similar thing to aVEverest attempt. Base fitness, on the bike comfort and fuelling in that order.

...meetup chat – (if you do it as a meetup) are only accessible to joiners for the first 30 minutes. You’ll need longer.

Only just noticed this... Very good!!!

DrP

Also you can't just turn around in a meetup can you? So you'd have to pedal out until zwift turned you round (radio tower in liklihood 😉)

@DrP unless your happy to listen to anything make sure you have a remote to change the song. I listened to your play list the other day. It's a wide range of music! Good luck.

I’d like to join you for one or two ascents. Will the meet-up need an invite?

@DrP

I’ll join in at the latter stages for a lap and maybe 2. It might push me on and would be interesting to see if I could do more than the usual 1 lap.

Good luck!

So the road to sky route FINISHES atop the AdZ.. so I guess if I did a meetup of "road to sky", and rode to the top, I can then just freeride wherever after I've finished the route, right?

And I'll ping out invites for the meetup...
But you can basically join another rider at any time with the "ride with" function...

DrP

so I guess if I did a meetup of “road to sky”, and rode to the top, I can then just freeride wherever after I’ve finished the route,

you probably want to check how Zwift sends the data across to Strava - as I understand it you need Strava to show a single activity? Does Zwift 'crop' your ride at the end of a 'meet up' and send that to Strava as an activity?

https://zwiftinsider.com/everyday-ron-veveresting/

I think whenever I have continued riding after a meetup it stays as one activity. The only time I get two activities is when I leave riding to join an event in the pens. Should be easy enough for one of us to try though.

It's just occurred to me we're all over thinking this - all he needs it to put his old PM on and he'll be done sub 1hr anyhow.

I did a vEveresting in the summer on the AdZ. Assume you've got a direct drive turbo (as the hall of fame rules require this)? My lowest gear was 36-28, which is a bit of a grind on the steeper sections - so a bigger cassette would be wise if you prefer to spin.

The Alpe is the most efficient way to do it - and the sectors help break it up (not sure I'd fancy Ventoux for this).

Pace-wise, it's tempo all the way. Somewhere just below sweet spot if you want to do it as quickly as possible or slightly easier if you want to make it more pleasant (I aimed around 85% of FTP I think, which was slightly ambitious but I just about pulled it off on average, with a minor crisis around the 5th ascent). Having people join you is a welcome distraction too (Garry Lager did the honours for me at my worst point).

One of the less obvious things is that you should u-turn straight after the finish line/start line. If you want to eliminate the Race-to-the-Sky lead in in from your time then use the "ride with" option and join someone who has already ridden the lead-in (I didn't know about this, but read that the guy who just set the record logged in on his wife's account for the lead-in so that his time didn't include it).

I was told it was quicker to switch to a TT bike for the descent, but it's pretty marginal so I got bored of doing that half-way through.

Cheers @Rod for that..

I believe i'm running a 34/50 up front, and 11-28 at the rear..

I was actually toying with sticking an 11-30 on the Gravel wheelset, so last night actually bought an ultegra 11-30 cassette, which I'll stick on the turbo for the VEverest attempt, then pop onto the gravel wheelset!
I've no need for 11-30 during normal Zwifting..

In honesty - it's all a bit 'daft' having to have the turbo at 100% setting, because as has been pointed out, it's basically a virtual gearing.. you could get 'over it' but simply having a 32 up front etc etc...

In fact... One could even simply stick a MTB crankset up front (nicked off another bike) with a 32 tooth wonky ring... hmm....

DrP

I think 34/30 should be a reasonable bottom gear. I guess the 100% rule means you have to experience the full grind effect of a real climb (and stops people just TT'ing it at 0%!) - the main plus point is that it takes some pressure of your backside when you're having to put a decent amount of force through the pedals 🙂