Vegan's arses

jesus’ tears and pixie dust.

You’re probably right! Organic veggie buyers are as dumb as that. If you can slip them some chemicals and meat they’re twice as dumb. No wonder people hate them.

I’m not sure what the deal is with human sewage as fertilizer in the UK, certainly very common overseas,

We grow our tree nursery from human waste, would be perfectly happy to grow veg too but the ‘ick’ factor puts people off so use the horse and sheep manure. We feel it’s right to tell the end-user exactly where their food is from as it’s an educational/sustainability project and they come for those reasons. Some seem disappointed that we don’t use humanure for veg, but they are in the minority.

Organic veggie buyers are as dumb as that. If you can slip them some chemicals and meat they’re twice as dumb. No wonder we hate them.

I don’t think they are, I think a lot of people don’t know where their food comes from though. I largely buy organic veg, would much rather cow poop went onto the land rather than horrible chemicals. Doubt there is much of a real health argument to organic/non organic, for me it is more the environmental side of it.

I think a lot of people don’t know where their food comes from though.

I expect there’s plenty who don’t want to know.

for me it is more the environmental side of it.

Me too (as a town-dwelling organic producer/buyer)

Hence being surprised that it’s deemed ok to flog organic carrots produced via industrial chicken waste? Don’t tell me, organic chicken waste from organic chickens that have been fed on industrial pork and bovine waste ??

You could argue on ethical grounds that the chickens and goat aren’t happy as they would be skipping across town and country, free/untethered/un-penned – but really?

They raise turkeys in the farm next to me for Christmas. Very well catered for, with a field, trees to perch on, toys etc.

The majority still just huddle in the barn together – they actually feel happier and more secure when ‘penned’. Think much the same is true for chickens, at least mine always seem more than happy to go back to their roost.

Real question: Did it ever occur to you that the buyers might wish to know that their organic carrots were grown via industrial chicken waste?

I’ve just checked with ‘she who knows’ and apparently it would still be ok as long as it was an organic chicken farm. Outside of that special permission would need to have been given.

I guess we would need a special classification of vegetarian carrots as the spec is just organic, not animal free

The majority still just huddle in the barn together – they actually feel happier and more secure when ‘penned’.

There is a strong argument that barn reared chickens, kept in good conditions are a lot happier than free range. They feel safe and secure from attack by birds of prey and hence less stressed.

I guess we would need a special classification of vegetarian carrots

Dutch ones. Grown (more manufactured than grown, imho) in a greenhouse near Delft, with nothing more than water and nutrients.

Hence being surprised that it’s deemed ok to flog organic carrots produced via industrial chicken waste?

I doubt there is any organic veg grown without animal waste? I’m not sure how they would fertilize it otherwise, but I don’t know much beyond my own experience. Can’t imagine veg is grown just to be fertilizer.

actually yes there is

EDIT: just read what else you have said and not feeding you

Maybe we should just accept that carrots are inherently evil?

Edit: Sorry that was too inane to let it stand.

not as evil as onions.
they’re eye watering when chopping.
then eye watering very soon after consumption too.

I doubt there is any organic veg grown without animal waste?

Animal waste (esp chicken litter/manure) is excellent fertiliser, my surprise was not at animal waste but that it was from a ‘massive chicken farm’ which I (maybe wrongly?) assumed was an industrial operation along with the antibiotics and pathogens etc that usually come with waste from such places. I’m all for more transparency allowing buyers to decide.

The issue of course with letting people decide Malvern is it requires them to think first, and if you need proof that that’s beyond most people look back at some of the comments on this thread (mine included).

Most (of course I can’t quantify this but it’s definitely more than one) people would be very challenged by organic anything that wasn’t portrayed as an easy way for the middle class to make prince Charles richer save the world and feel better about their choice dinner.

The issue of course with letting people decide Malvern is it requires them to think first,

I don’t expect that “would you like to pay extra to have your food sprayed with chicken excrement, sir?” would’ve boosted the sales of Waitrose organic carrots.

Many people are under the impression that organic = no pesticides rather than only pesticides from an approved list so wouldn’t surprise me if people have other misconceptions.

Many people are under the impression that organic = no pesticides rather than only pesticides from an approved list so wouldn’t surprise me if people have other misconceptions.

^this, and this also applies to eg antibiotics, don’t think you can blanket treat by default but unwell animals can receive antibiotics etc.

my surprise was not at animal waste but that it was from a ‘massive chicken farm’ which I (maybe wrongly?) assumed was an industrial operation along with the antibiotics and pathogens etc that usually come with waste from such places

I don’t see why you consider chicken waste is different from cow or anything else. even if the originating farm is organic, there will still be antibiotics etc used to treat sick animals, obviously much less than where drugs are routinely fed to animals. Why trust one poo and not the other? That’s politics innit.

actually yes there is

cool, what do they use? I know things like seaweed can be used at a small scale but on a commercial supermarket scale operation I don’t know what they use.

There is a strong argument that barn reared chickens, kept in good conditions are a lot happier than free range. They feel safe and secure from attack by birds of prey and hence less stressed.

That’s not too far removed from comments in an early part of the book The Life of Pi, where he talks about zoo animals, who have their nutritional needs met and are safe from predators/rivals, compared to wild animals who each day wonder if they’re going to be killed or starve. I do of course appreciate that this is a story, not a conclusive animal psychology study, but still, maybe some logic there.

actually yes there is
cool, what do they use?

google green manure.
some things might have an actual crop yield, while others are used just to move nutrients from one soil level to another and add nitrogen etc.

Quite right cougar

sprayed with chicken excrement

is not likely to be an effective sales line but on the other hand of you played fair everything would be similarly labeled and I guess many of the folks who buy organic would be happier with potatoes with added chicken poo in place of ones with a list of stuff that sounds like a chemistry exam, not that there wouldn’t be any of those additions just there would be fewer of them on the organic.

Personally I prefer the idea of man made sodium benzoate (random choice, no clue what it is) to the natural additives likely sourced from places I wouldn’t buy the precursor from on ethical grounds. Of course the chemical crap is probably worse for the world but it’s easier to empathise with a cow than a melting polar ice cap.

Would it be helpful if I point out that my childhood home was a dairy farm before we further this discussion?

Best retort ever…? Perhaps!

never judged anyone else for what they eat. I couldn’t care less what anyone else shovels down their gullets and fail to see why what I choose to eat is anyone else’s business.

Here! Hear!

kayak23 – Member
These threads truly suck.
It’s usually the case that those who don’t really question the consequences of anything that they do too often are desperate to catch out those who do, on any little thing they possibly can.
Presumably to justify their viewpoint, or perhaps lack of viewpoint.

Anything humans can do to lighten their footprint on the huge strain we as a species create on world resources is surely a good thing?

There isn’t a single one of us walking this earth who is morally whiter than white (except maybe Felicity Kendal) so if you are doing something that isn’t entirely selfish, then more power to ya…

Yep, pretty well this.

I’ve only skimmed through the thread after this point as people are banging on about poo in fertilizer and a rat fallen in a distillery. I dread to think how many insects I’ve killed since becoming largely vegan. There’s some more ammo for ya 😉 Anyway carry on….

The issue of course with letting people decide Malvern is it requires them to think first

All the more reason for more information, not less? Or are you under the impression that the silly simpletons who choose to buy organic are better off kept completely uneducated?

Personally, my fluffy little head wouldn’t be moved to open my tight wallet for organic carrots if those organic carrot people paid a massive battery farm for its chicken waste.

Here! Hear!

Bloody autocorrect!

Do they carry little alcohol wipes for the door handles too?

It’s not me, guv. Honest.

Personally, my fluffy little head wouldn’t be moved to open my tight wallet for organic carrots if those organic carrot people paid a massive battery farm for its chicken waste.

Battery farms have been illegal in the UK for a few years now.

Doesn’t affect me anyway, I use rechargeables.