just a thought: if the US control the worlds GPS satellites can’t they deny Russia use of them?

As the above (link to Glonass) the American GPS system is only one of at least 4 systems, 3 of which are global. If they degraded accuracy in Ukraine it would also affect Ukrainian usage. And as further above weapons systems also use other navigation techniques.

just a thought: if the US control the worlds GPS satellites can’t they deny Russia use of them?

Not really.
The US did use to broadcast two versions of gps. An encrypted version for military devices and then a general channel for everyone else. So at that time they could degrade the civilian version whilst keeping theirs accurate.
It got discontinued for three reasons.
Firstly it could be countered by cross referencing devices.
Secondly back in the first gulf war the US and allies didnt have many gps devices and so people went out buying their own civilian versions. The authorities concluded it would hurt them more than the Iraqis to disable the devices.
Thirdly everyone had got used to using it and the inaccuracies were problematic for multiple commercial uses including aviation so they pushed for it to be removed.

Oh well. Thanks all just a thought.

Reports of drone attacks hitting civilian targets in Moscow

A thread with until now best videos of a drone attack on Moscow this morning. It is not clear who stands behind this attack. Ukraine has never attacked civilian targets before. As in this attack, a multistory house was hit, can be a Putin’s false flag. Two days ago, popular… https://t.co/3FEGP6EUvO

— Sergej Sumlenny (@sumlenny) May 30, 2023

Hmmm.

The Ukrainian’s don’t seem to go for civilian attacks of minimal military advantage. Never say never, but….

…seems more likely is internal stress or some ‘freelance’ like the incursion at the Russian border last week.

This Twitter thread suggests that the drones can be positively identified as a type known to be developed by Ukraine.

I’m not sure of the utility of this from a Ukrainian perspective, other than a desire to hit back in frustration after being on the receiving end of similar for so long. Vengeance not strategy.

If they were all targeted at military facilities, then fair enough, but with so many fired at Moscow, even those directed at ‘legit’ targets can go astray or fall on residential areas after being hit by air defences.  As with attacks on Kyiv in reverse, it will only serve to harden Russian resolve and support for Putin. Not a good look imo Ukraine.

Moscow City Officials have announced that Air Defense Batteries were able to Shoot Down at least 10 Drones which were Detected over the City within the last few hours, with Damage from Debris and “Successful Impacts” affecting multiple Residential Buildings; it was additionally… pic.twitter.com/oSKgOIR8E4

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) May 30, 2023

This Twitter thread suggests that the drones can be positively identified as a type known to be developed by Ukraine.

Moscow City Officials have announced

We do need more information than a Russian voice…?

If you read the whole thread, OSINT defender who has been a reliable commentator throughout this conflict makes the link. Ukrainian long range UAV called ‘Beaver’. Not 100% confirmed, but starting to look quite likely.

I’m 100% sure this is the Drone that is seen in the Video which is Clear Evidence that this Attack was carried out by the Ukrainian Military. pic.twitter.com/WPVSEgQQh7

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) May 30, 2023

Ah, I stand corrected…

I suppose what it does do is tell Ukraine we here russian air defence is located

If it is a Ukrainian attack (and they don’t generally confirm anything outside their borders) then it could be a response to Moscow moving S400 missiles to Belarus this week to join other batteries already there
It might force movement of AA batteries to Moscow as part of the “shaping” phase, Donetsk to Moscow is about 500 miles

If that Osint guy can be 100% sure based on those photos then I cannot be 100% sure of his opinions.

My money would be on false flag ahead of full Russian mobilisation announcement. Putin has form for this kind of shit. There is no value to Ukraine in attacking Moscow, even in a symbolic way, and certainly not civilian targets, as it potentially weakens support from the West.

a Home Office spokesman says it’s an issue that is ‘too sensitive to say’

Like many things in Russia, their cyber attack ability seems to be built on rumour, gossip, lies and innuendo. I think we’ve (the west) have been told that the online efforts during the 2016 US election and Brexit revealed Russia to have this amazing ability to launch cyber attacks at who they want, when they want with more or less total impunity, and I’m left wondering that when it matters most – like in an an actual shooting war, the whole thing (like the Russian air force) seems to have gone missing in action. Perhaps it’s not aimed at me – my online presence is pretty limited after all, but taken as a whole, and especially after we’ve been told how effective it’s supposed to be, it’s all a bit “mleh”.

TL:DR I’d be genuinely surprised if it’s Russians

There is no value to Ukraine in attacking Moscow, even in a symbolic way

I don’t think that’s right. You only have to look at the effects that the early retaliatory raids launched at Berlin in 1940, or the Doolittle raids to Tokyo to see the effects on both sides that these sorts of even “propagandistic” raids have. Especially in Russia where information about the war in Ukraine is so very tightly controlled, I imagine that drone attacks in Moscow cause Putin’s regime any number of headaches.

Or they could just be wanting to fix Russian AD around Moscow and prevent deployment to Ukraine.

If a load of propeller-driven drones can reach that far, they have either evaded multiple layers of air defence, or that air defence does not exist. If it’s not a false flag, do they actually have anything to re-deploy?

I still can’t see the value of attacking civilian targets in Moscow. It’s the sort of thing that can be used to harden the civilian attitude in support of war, rather than undermining it. IIRC, the Doolittle raids provoked an absolute slaughter within China.

False flag by Russia again no doubts, that Power station in Ukraine is on borrowed time I fear.

If a load of propeller-driven drones can reach that far, they have either evaded multiple layers of air defence, or that air defence does not exist.

Seems like the best evidence? How would they have got there? Are they being launched from inside Russia?

Basing them on what they look like could be flimsy, I’m sure any hobbyist RC plane builder could come up with something that “looked like” that Ukranian drone in a couple of days.

If a load of propeller-driven drones can reach that far, they have either evaded multiple layers of air defence, or that air defence does not exist.

The types of drones that landed in Moscow were launched in Russia, they have a range of 200km max, and probs a lot less, and the Ukraine border is over 450km away, there’s no way these are coming that far, as you say, even if they they fly low and have a v. small radar return they’d still get picked up at some point.

If a load of propeller-driven drones can reach that far, they have either evaded multiple layers of air defence, or that air defence does not exist

In the eighties, didn’t a German teenager fly a small aircraft from Germany & land in Red Square?

Yep, although even those wee airplanes carry vastly more fuel than the sorts of drones that are turning up in pictures flying over Moscow.

The types of drones that landed in Moscow were launched in Russia, they have a range of 200km max, and probs a lot less, and the Ukraine border is over 450km away, there’s no way these are coming that far, as you say, even if they they fly low and have a v. small radar return they’d still get picked up at some point.

From the multiple phone video clips appearing from Moscow, it looks like there were at least two types of UAV used.  One with a canard and prop to the rear like the ‘Beaver’ mentioned earlier (not sure now it is one of those – but a similar-ish rear prop canard wing design). I haven’t been able to find any range or other specs for that. Also a UAV with a more conventional appearance like a scaled down GA light aircraft with the prop at the front. This looks like the Ukrainian UJ-22.  The UJ-22 has 2 modes – controlled flight to drop munitions then return – max range 100km and autonomous GPS controlled flight – 800km (one way).  These range figures are from the manufacturer’s website.

Video clip of canard type drone:

#BREAKING: #Ukrainian Armed Forces have used at least 24 UJ-22 Kamikaze drones in their largest drone attack at #Moscow, capital city of #Russia this morning. This footage shows one of them👇 pic.twitter.com/BhQcbZPiCv

— Babak Taghvaee – The Crisis Watch (@BabakTaghvaee1) May 30, 2023

Video clip of possible UJ-22 type drone:

https://twitter.com/theinformantofc/status/1663425408467861504?s=20

Not buying it
One picture looks like a modern, futuristic sleek airborne uav
The other pictures, a beat up 1980s Cessna 152.

Not buying it
One picture looks like a modern, futuristic sleek airborne uav

An airborne UAV? Is there any other kind? 😁  Whilst the likes of multi-million dollar US Predator and Reaper drones might look ‘sleek’ and ‘futuristic’ that’s not the case for many of the new crop of low cost drones.

The other pictures, a beat up 1980s Cessna 152.

That’s what a lot of military UAVs look like.  Many of them are substantially made of cardboard, delivered in kit form and powered by small, noisy, 2 stroke engines.  They have a low radar signature and fly too slowly for a lot of modern surface to air missiles to deal with.  That is why the older technology of anti aircraft artillery is getting a new lease of life.

strange how all these people happened to be filming & caught sight of the drone

strange how all these people happened to be filming & caught sight of the drone

Is it? 20 or 30 noisy, slow flying drones over a city of 12 million people, most of whom presumably have camera smart phones?  There are dozens, maybe hundreds of these clips.

autonomous GPS controlled flight – 800km (one way)

Ah, cool, thanks for the info @blokeuptheroad, I didn’t know the Ukrainians had access to drone with that sort of range, good to know 👍

Will wait and see some evidence, seems like a UAV with little information about it, which is low flying and slow, and made it’s way several hundred miles across Russian airspace before being taken down over Moscow.

I just don’t see what gain Ukraine get out of this, they are surviving off aid that’s centred around defending Ukraine, not striking Russia, especially Russian civilians, which either means it’s a massive fumble by Ukraine, or a false flag by Russia.

Funny see how it’s a fumble, they’ve know used western/nato equipment and it’s caused chaos in Moscow, notably going near the upmarket oligarch residences.
Piggorzhin has gone nuts about it and Putin’s ‘definitely not a war’ isn’t the 3day SMO he promised

I agree with the above comments, unlikely something sanctioned by those in command, much more likely to be a smaller splinter group acting in what they believe to be there own interests. We’ll know if it’s a false flag if Russia uses it as a pretext for an escalation, for example a new round of mobilisation etc

Not drone related in particular, but I consider that @sentdefender person to be a very unreliable source!

Lots of rumour, absurd sensationalism and speculation mixed in with the legit stuff, it seems to me

Hopefully not a false flag to justify openly attacking Ukrainian population centres in Kiev.

they are already doing that. the next escalation from Russia will be far worse

I’m not convinced Russia has the capacity to escalate, reports seem to suggest that Russia is using munitions as quickly as it can make them. Beyond nuclear there’s not much left on the shelf. And if Putin was prepared to go that far I think he would have already. You can’t bluff and then not follow it through when it’s called.

Not drone related in particular, but I consider that @sentdefender person to be a very unreliable source!

Presuming osintdefender, if so I agree not great.

Hopefully not a false flag to justify openly attacking Ukrainian population centres in Kiev.

where have you been since Feb 2022???? 🤦🏻‍♂️

It’s like WWII with the old V1 buzz bombs.

My mum used to tell me about them – she was quite young at the time and did not really know where Germany was, and since no one told her, assumed it was somewhere near Romford. Don’t ask me why Romford, and I can’t ask her now.

https://twitter.com/jackryan212/status/1663402529894309889?t=TPGyj-ZMJsRyaJvaK7jwmg&s=19

Harrowing piece on the BBC news about the abduction of Ukraine children. I knew it was happening but the looks on those toddlers faces when meeting their new “familys.”

Sick regime .