tyre & tubeless tech – bring me back up to speed

i start with a confessional – after 12 years as a dedicated mountain biker, 2008 saw a bit of a departure to the dark side. that culminated with 6 day epic across the French Alps this summer, but now my hunger for dirt has returned.

but things have moved on. a year or so ago I sold my big full susser and steel singlespeed to replace them with a decent trail hardtail – something to handle blasts round the local woods & bridleways, occasional trips to proper hills, and towing the kiddie trailer down the old railway path.

I’ve always been lazy with tyres, going with something that works well in most conditions – Conti Vertical ProTections (later on Vertical USTs) were my default tyre of choice and always suited my trails and riding style fairly well.

My new hardtail came with Conti Mountain Kings (original version) which have been so-so in summer, and absolutely rubbish since the trails have been wet.

I need a change and want to go back to tubeless (am running XT M778 Trail 26″ wheelset) but there’s a couple of things I can’t get my head around.

It used to be that to run UST you went with a proper UST tyre – which would have a specific bead and a bit of extra rubber in the carcass. And you’d run some latex or other gunk to protect against punctures.
Or, if you were brave, you could try sealing some non-UST tyres with latex, but have all sorts of other hassles with fitting, and have to ride carefully to avoid damaging the sidewalls.

Nowadays, it seems that some tyres are available in a full UST version (e.g. Conti Mountain King II UST, £45 880g for 2.4″ version), but also in other lighter variants with a UST bead (e.g. Mountain King II ProTection, £50, 650g).
Can anyone explain to me the difference in how these tyres are used? Do I really get to save 1lb of rotating weight for £10 per pair? Or is there a catch? I’m going to need some sealant to protect against thorns whichever option I picked. But would I need more with the non-UST tyres?

And then finally – what can people recommend me? Am looking for a decent high-volume XC/trail tyre. Riding use as above. Options I’m looking at so far:
Conti Rubber Queen 2.2
Conti Mountain King II 2.4
Schwalbe Nobby Nic Evo 2.25
Bontrager XR4

Anything else I should be considering?

Not much has changed TBH. Proper UST for the least hassle, but heavy solution, and chuck some icky white goo in there if you want thorn protection.

Tubeless ready variants if you’re a weight weenie, but they have a thinner & porous sidewall, so you have to use goo to seal them, and even then its a bit more hit & miss that they’ll hold air.

Specialized butcher control 2.3 up front and a purgatory control 2.3 on the rear would be a good all round pair of tubeless ready tyres, run with a scoop or 2 of stans they’d make a good tubeless, decent weight combo which are made in the same factory as maxxis. Cheap enough too.

Schwalbe Nobby Nics are amazing, you could probably use them all year round but in the dry(!!) summer I like Racing Ralphs. I’ve ridden tubeless with loads of tyres, ‘tubeless ready’ or not, and the only one I can remember having a problem with is the Continental Speed King but these are really quite light weight. In fact the only type of tyre I haven’t used is UST funnily enough, I never really needed it but maybe the kind of riding I do is less demanding or something.

OK, so it sounds like it’s just the bead that’s changed on the latter. That was probably always the biggest problem with trying to run standard tyres tubeless. I’ve no problem with sticking some air into my tyres before every ride – but wouldn’t really want them going soft on a longer outing.

So some food for thought there.

It’s like Keith Bontrager’s famous old stem-cap quote – “strong, light, cheap – pick two”

Light, airtight, hassle-free – pick two. Or something, doesn’t quite have the same ring…

Anyone ridden the XR4’s tubeless? Apparently they have their own special lightweight gunk or something? What’s that like to use?

PS top tip for getting the tyre inflated:
”POP”[/url]

Always used to quite like Spesh tyres – had a cannibal / rock’n’roll’r combo back in the day that were good. Will check those out.

Plus (yet) another vote for Nobby Nics – they seem to be incredibly popular.

I’m going to need some sealant to protect against thorns whichever option I picked

No you won’t, and that’s about it. You don’t need sealant with UST. It’s desirable, but not essential. ‘Tubeless ready’ tyres have a normal (porous) carcass so you have to use sealant to make them airtight.

I’d always go with tubeless ready.

Apparently they have their own special lightweight gunk or something? What’s that like to use?

Bonty Super Juice is rubbish! RRP sealant is better for something of that ilk, but I prefer latex best sealants, Stan’s being the best IMO.

I’ve just gone tubeless on my Stan’s Flow rims using the Stan’s kit (tape/valve/sealant) for about £20 and had no problems with Maxxis Minion/Advantage tyres..
Both gone up and holding air.

The only thing I’d add is just be a bit choosy about schwable tubless ready. I may have just been unlucky but the racing Ralph I used was a bit problematic. Sealing took a while, but I found it wasn’t really up to the task. ( yes I know it’s a lightweight tyre, clue in the name etcetc) but it’s the only tyre I’ve ever had issues with. Using Conti Xking now, which seems better

OK, so I wouldn’t want to ride without sealant, even in a full UST tyre – too much blackthorn (and I’m not talking about cider) round my way.

So the benefits of tubeless-ready/tubeless-compatible over full UST are looking rosy.

Am liking what I’m reading about the Purgatory & Butcher tyres – especially as they’re £15-20 a pop cheaper then the Contis and the Nobby Nics.

And re. the sealing, my LBS recommended using an old toothbrush or nailbrush to work some latex into the inside of a tubeless-ready tyre before use, keeping it off the bike in a warm place to dry, and then fitting it with a bit more sealant.

Thank you folks – this is helping a lot.

Never done that in my life! I’ve inflated at least 20 sets of tyres, mainly Schwalbe, some Spesh and Bonty, some tubeless ready, some normal, all of which have gone up and sealed fine with no washing up liquid, scrubbing, CO2, compressors etc!

Buy Schwalbe tyres from Germany – vastly more reasonable prices. ActionSports.de are good.

XR4 are ace tyres that go up and stay up well tubeless. A few mixed reviews on them but I have had one on the front for about 8 months and its been faultless. Been all over Scotland and some tough trails in Spain. Do a search as there have been a few threads on them recently.

I can vouch for Bontrager (wheels and tyres as a system) Tubeless Ready being very good.

Schwalbes in (snakeskin versions anyway) tubeless ready have been superb on American Classic rims.

Due to a frozen valve cap last week I accidentally removed the valve core trail side when trying to let the pressures down a bit. I then stupidly unseated the tyre by accident moving the bike off the trail. Slightly panicing I was amazed that I managed to get it reseated and sealed with a tiny burst of CO2 and then finished with my mini pump.

I’ve taken the plunge. Did some more research on the Specialized treads, and then went to the bike shop at lunchtime.

They didn’t have the Butchers in stock, but the Purgatories were. They score heavily in the value stakes so I’ve gone for a pair of those. Will see how I get on.

Sounds like it’s a great rear tyre, and pretty good up front. If I find myself lacking front end grip at all I shall go and buy a Butcher and keep the Purgatory I’ve removed as a replacement for when the rear wears out.

If you shred tyres (massive pinch punctures etc) UST or dual ply tyres are good, otherwise tubeless ready with sealant are fine (imho of course) If you rarely flat with tubes it’s probably not worth the hassle.

stevied – Member
I’ve just gone tubeless on my Stan’s Flow rims using the Stan’s kit (tape/valve/sealant)

Flow rims or flowEX? As I found to my detriment flows need a rimstrip, you can’t just use tape unless they are UST tyres.

Mine held on for a few rocky rides then ejected at a most inopportune moment. Of course you may get lucky. FlowEX don’t need strips but you may have problems if you want to run UST tyres.

D0NK – Member

Flow rims or flowEX? As I found to my detriment flows need a rimstrip, you can’t just use tape unless they are UST tyres.

Not my experience at all, I’ve got on fine with just tape, and either TLR or standard tyres. That includes countless scottish miles, enduro racing, happy time in france, and 2 years of endurance downhill racing at fort william, so no luck about it. Only time I’ve ever had a big burp were times when I was also adding new dents to a rim, which is acceptable I reckon.

I’m a little selective about the tyres, mind, I don’t use anything too ropey or too slack- never had a standard Panaracer I’d trust tubeless, and one of my Swampthings was like a wizard’s sleeve.

I’ve rolled a tyre right off an 819 mind but I think that was mostly my fault, riding it with low pressure. May actually have been one of my few UST ones TBF once on, the tyres act exactly the same on my UST Mavics and Fulcrums, and on my non-UST Stans and Specialized rims.

Good thinking Andy, I’ve used the Purgatory and it’s a great all round tyre – not quite as impressive as a Rubber Queen in the wet (the 2.2 UST BC version seems to be the perfect tyre for me) but very good for the money.

Btw, the Stans rims only need the tape with tubeless-ready tyres or UST tyres. The rimstrip is for using non-tubeless tyres or for those extremely gnarr individuals that are managing to burp tubeless-ready or UST tyres (usually a result of too wide a tyre for the rim or too low a pressure for the situation).

Not my experience at all, I’ve got on fine with just tape, and either TLR or standard tyres.

well it happened to me and when I mentioned it to JRA they said “yeah that can happen”. I’m not tempted to repeat the experiment in the name of science 🙂 like I said tyre had been on a couple of rides including some proper rocky downhills then popped off on a rocky landing from a pretty small drop off.

I also added the “you may be lucky” proviso 🙂

Sure… But you said “You can’t just use tape”, which isn’t right. Some folks find the strips worthwhile but most don’t, so it’s something to consider but definately not essential.

fair enough I’ll change that to “using just tape could lead to problems”

I did actually use a dual ply tyre for ~18months with just tape no problem but they had silly tight beads, my first go at “normal” tyres resulted in the above.

Yeah, personally I think it’s more down to the tyres, but of course you can’t rely on a non-UST tyre being a good fit, so that’s definately a consideration for tubeless. The rim strips take away that uncertainty.

9p ghetto inflator

The above won’t foul your sealant and is good fun to make. Seats tyres like it ain’t no thing. I used a spare QR swap-out to pinch the hose and some blu-tak around the leaky bits at the cap. It’s like the Tracy Island of STW.

That inflator is genius. Must try making one of those.

I can feel a perforated eardrum coming on…

Fitted the Purgatories last night. They are lovely and big, without being too weighty. The bike sits at least a half inch higher than on the Conti Mountain King 2.2s they’ve replaced.

Tread and compound look promising too. Very much looking forward to getting out for a proper spin on them.

They are going to make me invincible. Mwah ha ha ha ha…