BTW a follow up to the Frome story.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/2793333/Felix-Dennis-rescues-Butler-and-Tanner-for-500000.html

The company has been bought (for pretty much £0) mainly, it appears for sympathetic reasons. However, what is clear is that it can only support a vastly reduced workforce. That would have been the original problem, and it hasnt gone away. But the Unions called the previous owners bluff and lost. It has taken virtual administration to reduce heacount to a sustainable level for that company. The Unions should have helped do that through cooperation to avoid massive shocks like having to make 300 odd people redundant first.

Mr Dennis said he has put his “full financial support” behind the printing group, and will invest more in the group “when appropriate”.

Mr Dolan said it was also likely the Mr Dennis will take advantage of British publishers moving their business back to the UK, as costs rise in Europe and China.

However, at this stage the publishing mogul said he could only offer 80 former employees their jobs back – less than a third of the plant’s original workforce.

Median Private sector / hour: £14.54
Median Public sector / hour: £20.75
Tube drivers / hour : £35.46

That’s right; quote the pay of the drivers (one of the best paid jobs on the Underground, which recruits from staff who have plenty of experience working in other areas of the service), why don’t you? We could all find statistics to support whatever argument we have…

Got figures for ticket hall staff, cleaners, maintenance workers, etc?

Whilst I’m sure there are a few spurious reasons for striking, I’m glad there’s at least one powerful union, that seeks to protect it’s workers from getting shafted by greedy bosses.

I bet most of you lot get paid a darn sight more than yer average underground worker. Tell you what, if you think it’s such a wonderful job, with fantastic benefits, why aren’t you all applying for jobs on the Tube?

FFS; a couple of days of disruption to your routines, and you’re up in arms.

We’ll overlook the fact that it’s unions that have fought for rights of ALL workers in this country (such as 40 hour weeks, better health and safety conditions, equal pay for women, rights for those with disabilities, the right to appeal dismissal, blah blah blah). And that it;’s often been the unions who’ve been instrumental in many social rights campaigns, such as fighting racial/sexual discrimination, minimum wages, etc etc.

Many of the rights that we all enjoy in this country have been fought for, and won, by unions.

Long live the unions!

But feel free to carry on with your pathetic, selfish ‘me me me’ moaning. I find it very amusing. Just shows what selfish greedy self-centered hypocrits some of you really are.

Get back to yer curtain twitching…

Long live the unions!
out of morbid curiousity, of which union are you a member, Rudeboy?

Tell you what, if you think it’s such a wonderful job, with fantastic benefits, why aren’t you all applying for jobs on the Tube?

If they think it’s such a terrible job with such terrible benefits, why aren’t they all applying for jobs elsewhere rather than getting in the way of other people.

Thousands of people who work as temps may well not be able to get to work for a couple of days, losing them the income from that work. Many business will be understaffed and therefore will lose custom as a result. The knock on effect of a tube strike is huge.

[hijack]CFH – beer?, Westminster Arms/Tattershall castle?[/hijack]

If they think it’s such a terrible job with such terrible benefits, why aren’t they all applying for jobs elsewhere rather than getting in the way of other people.

Who’s saying they think it’s a ‘terrible’ job? They’re just asking for it to be a little bit better, that’s all.

I agree that is is in fact the lower paid people who will suffer the most; the likes of Stoner and BigDummy won’t be worried about a few quid lost, if in fact they’ll lose anything at all, if they ‘can’t get to work’.

But like youse lot give a **** about the ‘little people’ anyway; the same people that you like to look down your poncy selfish noses at, and tell yourself you’re ‘better’ than them. Please. Don’t pretend you ‘care’. You’re more concerned with what posh wine to have with your dinner, than you are about others.

I think the threat of strike is meant to make the employers relent, and accept the demands from the unions. Seems like there’s ‘negotiation’ still in progress. We’ll see. Nice to see that some of youse lot are condemning Tube workers already.

Am off riding this evening, Stoner, sorry!
Besides, the Tattershal? Are you quite, quite mad!

totty spotting.

Although I accept it’s not quite the weather for it this evening 🙁

Ah, good point! For that it is a fine venue.

As are the bars around Paternoster Sq, by the way.

of which union are you a member, Rudeboy?

What’s that got to do with the price of fish?

Can I come to the pub too, then? 😀

yep – a fair enough one is on the square called The Chop House which has a decent wine list. It does attract a few too many “new young bankers” if you know what I mean though.

none of the bars around there have any “pattina” though. Too new.

Stoner:
Unite said an average salary payment of £1,200 was due to each employee this month, and a total of £45,000 in pensions contributions needed to be refunded to the workforce as a whole.

Senior representative Stuart North said: “We have accepted pay cuts and all the conditions.

“The only issue in dispute was that Mike Dolan wanted us to sign a document giving him the right to sue individual employees.

B+T had been profitable before its takeover – it was the financial engineering that shafted it. 450 ordinary blokes laid off so that some faceless **** could make more millions. It makes one sick.

Can I come to the pub too, then?

You wouldnt like it RB.
BD and I shall be looking down our noses at people and using some long words.

So the transport in FreddedBraBoy’s ‘greatest city in the world’ has broken again? It’s not even snowing this time ffs!

The only issue in dispute was that Mike Dolan wanted us to sign a document giving him the right to sue individual employees.

Inflammatory stuff from the union rep, Moses. Almost certainly hyperbole if even remotely true and probably so far out of context as to make it impossible to ascertain quite what was intended by the original clause.

You bottle-job. More like, you’d be too afraid to actually discuss issues without being behind the safety of yer keyboard! 😀

Grr!

[gently wades in]Can’t really add more to the rights or wrongs of this one; and if there was a “picket line” I’d struggle to cross it TBH. I think their timing’s all wrong. It’s a bit of a cliche to say “In these economic times, blah blah blah…” because for some people, life’s a struggle whether we’re in boom or bust, but I can’t help wondering why they’d pick firstly our first descent into recession in years and the night of an England game in Wembley to walk out. Sometimes I wonder if Crow almost delights in pissing every-fckuing-body off.[gently wades back out]

[chip on shoulder]Remember the summer of ’89 when we had weekly strikes for the whole of public transport in London? That was the summer I turned 18 – me and my mates all came over and went crazy let loose in London for 3 months. Well, I turned 18 on one of the Wednesdays they went on strike meaning I couldn’t enjoy my first legal drink with everybody else as we were spread all over London. An unfortunate coincidence but I’ve never forgotten the feckers for it[/chip on shoulder]

Well, what you quoted was not impartial, either. And I don’t think that mentioning the wages owed was inflammatory. It shows that the average wage was about £15k – not high at all.

Stoner’s too scared I’d give him a Chinese Burn, and he’d be so frightened he’d wet his pants in front of everyone, and they’d all laugh and point cruelly and unkindly!

Good point re the timing, Darcy. I think you may be right about Bob Crow as well, by the way!

If they think it’s such a terrible job with such terrible benefits, why aren’t they all applying for jobs elsewhere rather than getting in the way of other people

That’s Toryism encapsulated. If you don’t like it **** orf and find another job you grotty little oiks.

Thousands of people who work as temps may well not be able to get to work for a couple of days, losing them the income from that work. Many business will be understaffed and therefore will lose custom as a result. The knock on effect of a tube strike is huge.

Just goes to prove what an important part the tube system plays then doesn’t it. It’s staff should be treated accordingly.

I’m all for strikes for genuine reasons but really, the reinstatement of these two being a pre-requisite of calling off the strike is showing that it’s about the union not about fairness. I recall a strike a few years ago over the reinstatement of the bloke who was off work sick with an ankle injury yet somehow managed to play squash. Crow reckoned that was justified too.

trailmonkey,

by your last argument, should the entire profit for every business in london be paid to the tube as without the tube they’d go to the wall (or more likely another city)?

Where’ve the little Thatcherites gone? Come on, I was well up for a pagga! 😀

just to make it easier for you Fred:
1) im not a Tory
2) im not a thatcherite
and 3) im in the pub so you can frot away on your own

Where’ve the little Thatcherites gone?

Down the pub for a drink and you are talking to your self on the internet.

FWIW the pay of a tube driver is crazy when I work with guys doing very difficult jobs and being the best in the world at it for much less than that. Oh and we do have a union but the sort who negotiate and only step in as a last resort and not at the whim of a power crazed nutter.

SSP

Do you know what?

I don’t give **** what they are on strike about. I am however going to the smoke for the day to visit my son, a chance that I don’t often get, and frankly I’m hardpressed to see what is so important that it justifies bringing the capital to a standstill, let alone inconveniencing me.

No sides, but frankly both parties need their heads banging together and being forcibly ejected into the real world that most of the rest of us have to survive in.

by your last argument, should the entire profit for every business in london be paid to the tube as without the tube they’d go to the wall (or more likely another city)?

No,it just goes to prove what an important part the tube system plays then doesn’t it. It’s staff should be treated accordingly.

I fully support the tube drivers in their efforts not to get made redundant, but I don’t think they’re endearing themselves to the public with these 7pm starts – which effectively turn a 48-hour strike into three days of not being able to count on getting a tube.

Rudeboy : That’s right; quote the pay of the drivers (one of the best paid jobs on the Underground, which recruits from staff who have plenty of experience working in other areas of the service), why don’t you? We could all find statistics to support whatever argument we have…

Come on then…

1) im not a Tory
2) im not a thatcherite
and 3) im in the pub so you can frot away on your own

Tory Thatcherite Bottler!

FWIW the pay of a tube driver is crazy

What, £35000 a year? Care to explain why?

Come on then

‘Come on then’ what, mate?

Do you know what?

I don’t give **** what they are on strike about. I am however going to the smoke for the day to visit my son, a chance that I don’t often get, and frankly I’m hardpressed to see what is so important that it justifies bringing the capital to a standstill, let alone inconveniencing me.

Do you know what?

I don’t give a **** about your transport woes.

Easy, this selfishness, is not it?

Farmer_John – Member

Come on then…

RudeBoy – Member

‘Come on then’ what, mate?

Fight! Fight! Fight! This is how they start isn’t it?

Tube driver salary £40K
Bus driver salary £18K

A bus driver has to steer also 😀

Heh!

And you’d be known as a ‘shit-stirrer’, DD! 😉

And you’d be known as a ‘shit-stirrer’, DD!

LOL! Yeah, the guy who says “did you hear what he said about you mate?”

andywhit – Member

Tube driver salary £40K
Bus driver salary £18K

Try not being so lazy, with yer googling, please.

£32,000p.a. London Tube Driver

£43,656p.a. Waste Disposal Manager

£125,253p.a. Vice Chancellor, Oxford

£29,336p.a. University Lecturer

Mr Mason said the three per cent would take the average Tube driver’s salary to more than £31,000 a year.

So, I’d imagine that while some Tube drivers, with long service are on £35k+, there will also be quite a few on less than £30k.

Ooh, tell you what; I’ve just stuffed meself with 4 sausage butties. Think I might have to have a little lie down for a bit…

Jeez, try not being so lazy with yer debating and fight instead!!

18:59…Strike! One out, all out!

I think you’ve got it all wrong… surely they are just being rather enthusiatic supporters of Bike Week?

😀

Plus, why are all you lot moaning, I’d have thought it was an ideal excuse to ride into work!