a dog can be off the lead and not out of control

Monumentally wrong.
Off the lead is not in your control.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them, be it de to a genuine fear due to some event or an irrational one due to lack of understanding and often ignorance.

If it due to a genuine fear then I am sorry that something has happened to you and I suggest you seek help to deal with it.

Look at the quality of that victim blaming! 😀
I can be an arsehole with a bit of effort, but andyl seems to manage it like a natural pro.

Hats off to you sir, I haven’t seen such levels of cheb-endery in some weeks!

<proceeds with slow hand clap>

I like dogs (and most animals) but really object to those dog owners who are lazy, irresponsible and anti-social;

– Those who let their dog off a lead in a public place and think it’s acceptable when their dog runs up to and jumps up at people.

– Those who let their dog crap in public areas and not clear it up

you seem to be under the impression that a dog off the lead is dangerously out of control? A dog can be out of control but not dangerous and a dog can be off the lead and not out of control and not dangerous.

An out of control dog in public area is totally unacceptable. Just because it doesn’t bite someone, doesn’t mean it’s ok.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them

Sorry, but that just boils my piss. I wouldn’t say that I have a fear of dogs, but when a large dog runs at me and up to me without warning, it is frightening and unacceptable that the owner should not allow this. At best I don’t want someone’s slathering mutt putting mud all over my clothes, or having my jacket ripped, at worst I don’t want to be bitten.

It seems that the problem is getting worse, maybe it’s just my perception of it, but there do seem to be a disproportionaly large number of dog owners who cannot maintain control over their dog. The common theme is the dog is let off a lead, it sees something (walker, rider, other dog, etc) and goes running off. The owner has no control over the dog, the dog hasn’t been properly trained and just ignores the owners shouts. It’s only once the dog reaches it’s destination that you know what will happen – will it bite? will it maul another dog? will it stand there wagging it’s tail?

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them

No there isn’t. The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says:

For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so

And of course all you dog owners are familiar with the legislation around dog ownership and the consequent penalties, aren’t you?

You seem to be under the impression that a dog off the lead is dangerously out of control? A dog can be out of control but not dangerous and a dog can be off the lead and not out of control and not dangerous.

Nope, read again, it doesn’t matter whether the dog is off or on a lead. the law says it has to be under control. However on a lead you take away the uncertainty, it removes the possibility 100% of the time that the dog will scare some-one. But raise that with a dog owner, and they react as if you want to euthanase the animal.

There is a distinct difference between a dog actually, genuinely being threatening and someone who is afraid of dogs thinking the dog is going to inure them, be it de to a genuine fear due to some event or an irrational one due to lack of understanding and often ignorance.

Again, no there isn’t. Read the law. It doesn’t matter if there is genuine fear, or just ignorance. The responsibility is still yours as the dog owner. If some-one is afraid of your dog, it’s out of control. End

If it due to a genuine fear then I am sorry that something has happened to you and I suggest you seek help to deal with it.

[sigh]

The standard reply. I’m not scared of dogs.

Non dog owners tar you all with the same brush because we continue to tread in dog shit, and roll through it with our wheels, and have it flick up into our faces. We continue to be bitten despite the protestations of “It’s never done that, before” or better still “You must have done something to wind him up”

Keep your dog on a lead, and pick up it’s shit and take it home with you. That’s all you have to do to put a stop to this.

nickc for No. 10

No there isn’t. The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 says:

For the purposes of this Act a dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so

exactly. REASONABLE APPREHENSION” someone having an irrational fear does not constitute “REASONABLE APPREHENSION”

If my dog is running around minding it’s own business 100 yards from someone and they start getting hysterical screaming “OMG that dogs going to rip my face off” – is that “reasonable apprehension”? No. It’s a stupid moron or someone who has a problem and is in the minority.

Keep your dog on a lead,

No.

Something tells me keeping your dog on a lead when going down singletrack isn’t really a serious option?

A certain % of all people are knobs. Those people that do not believe this simple fact, must also therefore be a knob. 🙂

As a cyclist we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of cyclists that are knobs.
As a car driver we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of car drivers that are knobs.
As a dog owner we have to endure the generalised flack caused by the % of dog owners that are knobs.

Don’t you just love being shoved in generalised boxes by everyone?

For the record, a) I find a the outer pocket of a backpack is very handy for carrying full poo bags until you can find a bin, and b) I don’t take my dogs to a trail centre.

You’re an idiot

and here we go. All you can resort to is name calling.

You have still not put up any reasonable justification for all dogs to be on the lead at all times. You may think you have but you haven’t. So my response to you telling me to put my dog on a lead at all times is “no”. There is no point in me saying any more as there is nothing else to add.

Got to say that you have kinda nailed it there Andyl

If my dog is running around minding it’s own business 100 yards from someone and they start getting hysterical screaming “OMG that dogs going to rip my face off” – is that “reasonable apprehension”? No

Dog owners have an entirely different view of what is and isn’t reasonable when it comes to their dogs. In the same way smokers couldn’t accept the intrusive nature (Not to mention the harmfull nature)of their smoke, dog owners cant accept that their dogs can sometimes invoke a reasonable apprehension.

If I had a dog playing in a park and someone 100yds away was scared. Be it a child, a 6ft bloke or an old lady. I would move heaven and earth to make sure my dog was taken out of that persons way.

You have still not put up any reasonable justification for all dogs to be on the lead at all times

It’s not me that has to. The responsibility for your dog lies entirely with you. Not me, not with the dog, but you. You have be able to justify why it’s ok to let the dog scare someone, or let them step in it’s shit. and your answer was “No”

Something tells me keeping your dog on a lead when going down singletrack isn’t really a serious option?

On singletrack it is possible but you have to choose your routes carefully and have a suitable lead, I will keep mine on a lead when needed and one example of this is if there is a group of people learning to ride horses on fireroads and bridleways. It’s more a visual thing to re-assure them as if they start to worry the horse senses it and so forth. I also do things my dog to demonstrate responsible behaviour to other dog owners as often me putting my well behaved and under control dog on the lead triggers people with less well behaved dogs onto their leads too. Just like I make it quite obvious I have picked up my dogs poo in some attempt to shame those who don’t. But obviously on singletrack it does dull the enjoyment so try to avoid it.

The argument above is that ALL dogs should be kept on a lead at ALL times. Not just when riding. ie never allow a dog off a lead.

My dogs didn’t bother anyone during the 3hrs we spent riding/running up at Nevis Range yesterday. But then we only saw one other person once we’d left the car park, and they (the dogs) sat down next to me as instructed as soon as we saw him and didn’t move until he’d gone past. Wouldn’t take them at the weekend or if it was busy though. And they both had a shit at home first 🙂

I hardly ever put my dogs on a lead, although I usually carry one in my pocket just in case wherever I’ve gone is unexpectedly busy. However, while I let them run around the forest as much as they want, I do not allow them to run up to other people or dogs, and it’s easy enough to use food as a distraction to keep them glued to my side until we have passed and are by ourselves again. So I don’t agree that off the lead automatically equates to not under control.

It’s not me that has to. The responsibility for your dog lies entirely with you. Not me, not with the dog, but you. You have be able to justify why it’s ok to let the dog scare someone, or let them step in it’s shit. and your answer was “No”

yes you do. No where does the law state that I must keep my dog on a lead at all times. the DDA 1991 does state several times that as a consequence of an out of control or dangerous incident an owner may be required to keep a dog on a lead in certain situations but that is it.

And please find where I have said anything about me thinking it’s okay for people to step in my dogs shit?

What’s that? You can’t?

However, while I let them run around the forest as much as they want,

yeah f*** those ground nesting birds

Ps I take full and complete responsibility for everything my dog does. I have never said I don’t and have no reason to dispute it. I trust that dog with my life and the lives of others, certainly more than I trust a lot of people.

So I don’t agree that off the lead automatically equates to not under control.

no-one has tried to argue that. The Law doesn’t mention leads, it just says your dog has to be under control. My point was that a lead “ensures” that control, and puts non dog owners at ease, as they don’t have to go through the whole “I wonder what that dog’s like” nonsense that we all have to now. If you can be sure you’re not going meet anyone else, then crack on.

no-one has tried to argue that. The Law doesn’t mention leads, it just says your dog has to be under control. My point was that a lead “ensures” that control, and puts non dog owners at ease, as they don’t have to go through the whole “I wonder what that dog’s like” nonsense that we all have to now. If you can be sure you’re not going meet anyone else, then crack on.

So are you now saying I don’t need to put my dog on the lead at all times?

🙄

Horse poo tastes like soggy hobnobs
wheras dog poos tastes like shit 🙂

Ridin over the front wheel your mouth open isn’t a good practise 🙁

Not much fun rounding up sheep with the dog on a lead thou 🙁

Horse poo tastes like soggy hobnobs
wheras dog poos tastes like shit

grim, grim, grim!

Even grimmer if you are referring to a specific type of soggy hobnobs from a boarding school experience!

Not much fun rounding up sheep with the dog on a lead thou

indeed. Pretty dangerous too if you are still on the quad/ATV at the time!

yeah f*** those ground nesting birds

Good try, but the breeding season hasn’t started yet.

Amazing how should you take your dog to a trail centre ( no imho ) brings out the dog hating crazies 😯
For what its worth the reasonable in “reasonable apprehension” is what the court considers reasonable. Not what someone with a hatred/ fear of dogs ( some of you ! ) might think is reasonable. From a chat with my local copper the bar is pretty high.

Because there are degrees to this stuff aren’t there?

If you can be sure that your dog won’t disturb anything or anyone and you can pick up it’s crap, why would I have a problem with that? As I said many posts ago, I don’t care about your dog. Exersize it how you want

Can you be sure? That’s the only issue here. Because time and again, I encounter dogs that aren’t under control and owners that can’t control their dogs. Time and again I tread in shit.

A lead will make you sure, and will make all the non dog owners you meet sure that the dog is under control. That’s your responsibility, not mine or your dogs, yours. That it’s under control.

that’s it. Simples

brings out the dog hating crazies

FWIW I like dogs, I think most folk do. What they don’t like is the uncertainty of not knowing what that dog bounding towards them barking it’s head is going to do, or the fact that it’s ignoring the owner who’s panting after it shouting it’s name to no obvious effect.

Exersize

sorry what? (that sums up my regard to what you post from now on)

Amazing how should you take your dog to a trail centre ( no imho ) brings out the dog hating crazies
For what its worth the reasonable in “reasonable apprehension” is what the court considers reasonable. Not what someone with a hatred/ fear of dogs ( some of you ! ) might think is reasonable. From a chat with my local copper the bar is pretty high.

*virtual hand-shake