Gps on about £100,000

‘Some’ may be earning this but it isn’t the standard. Range from 55k -80k as a rule.

Three of my friends from school are GP’s. They left med school about 6 years ago. All earning over £100k. (two in Birmingham, one near Manchester). This includes the one who took a year out to travel and then moaned she had only earned £60k the following year. Don’t seem to see them much these days……

Had two boilers fitted in the past three years (moved house). Both times the fitter was charging approx £400 PD. Not sure what they take home, but my wife thinks I should retrain!

The boiler fitter is not fitting boilers 5 days a week and that will be his rate for fitting and commissioning a boiler (lots of expensive meters and training needed for that bit). Above all is the shear responsibility involved in boiler installation and the likelihood of being called back FOC to problem solve some issue or other (combi boilers are fickle beasts).
If tradesmen are making a packet it is because a lot of them are working 70 hour weeks (building sites tend to be less depressing than going round shopping centres with the family at weekends).

but my wife thinks I should retrain!

Depends what you earn now.

But if you can afford to effectively earn nothing for the first year, while paying out for training and tools.

Then exams and certification.

Then buying a vehicle, paying for advertising, public liability insurance, expensive trade vehicle insurance and lots of other stuff you won’t think about till you need it.

Go for it.

The boiler fitter is not fitting boilers 5 days a week

At those prices they wont need to 😉

At the end of the day £400 per day is about the average weekly net pay.

You may wish to try and justify it but it is a lot of money to the majority of the population.

I’m self employed (10 years+). I supply and fit kitchens. I don’t work for domestic customers on a day rate. I do work for a company during school holidays @£160pd. After cis tax it’s £128pd or £640pw. Less diesel, screws, blah blah.
So for working my ass off, it’s not a fortune. As previously mentioned, factor in non pay time, books, pricing, sitting about when it’s quiet, cleaning van etc. I’d probably make more in a year being employed.
And I can’t buy a bike on the cycle2work scheme!

At the end of the day £400 per day is about the average weekly net pay.

Even if it is, it is still not, as several people have pointed out, what the guy is getting paid. It is what his company is charging, which then includes all of the tax that the business needs to pay and all of the overhead of running a business. What he can actually take out of that business himself is an entirely different matter. At the end of the day…

A massive +1 to this. A few folk seem to reckon that things like vans, computers, phones, tools etc all come for free.

Yup, a lot of folk seem to think it’s like expensing stuff when you are an employee of someone else’s company and you just get the money back, forgetting that for the self employed, you are also the company so the cost of the item still comes out of your pocket, just minus tax.

And I can’t buy a bike on the cycle2work scheme!

Yes you can, speak to an accountant.

Self employed, sat here reading this as I don’t have any work on today, whilst my riding mates who are employed and earn a less hourly rate are in the alps for a week.
I couldn’t commit to this holiday 6 months ago when they booked as I had no idea how this years work would go or if I’d be able to take time off.
Swings & rounderabouts, no holidays but new bike on tax rebate.

[Yes you can, speak to an accountant.]

No you can’t,

“Please note that the scheme is available to UK tax payers who pay PAYE. Self-employed workers cannot take part in the scheme.”

You have to be in the paye system.

I could buy it, pay for it out of my pocket and offset it against my tax liability but my accountant wasn’t to impressed as I couldn’t really justify using it for business.

No you can’t,

Sole Trader?
My mistake. If you have a limited company, as I do, you can.

What he can actually take out of that business himself is an entirely different matter

Indeed but you cannot expect people being asked to pay their weekly wage for a days work to not think it is a lot of money because it is.

you are also the company so the cost of the item still comes out of your pocket, just minus tax.

Another way of saying this it is cheaper for you than me as I have to pay for these after tax. Everyone has a phone, computer, vehicle [to get them to work] etc but employees need to pay this AFTER tax. Your way is cheaper and you can claim for your clothees, your fuel to work and the meals you eat. It may be a surprise but I am not allowed to turn up tp wprk naked and I still like to eat when I am there 😉

It is still swings and roundabouts and someone wanting my weekly wage for one days work sis still a lot of money.

sole trader, yip

Some people seem rather bitter about the fact that some of us are self employed.

As well as obsessed with how much others earn. It’s so boring. As for the ‘self employed folk don’t declare all their earnings for tax’ rubbish; I serosly doubt that this kind of ‘tax fraud’ is in anywhere near the same league as Vodafone, Google, Amazon etc. And I bet many who moan about tradesmn doing ‘cah in hand’ jobs wold gladly take advantage of the cycle to work scheme to buy a bike/components they didn’t realy need.

My mistake. If you have a limited company, as I do, you can.

+1

I am not allowed to turn up tp wprk naked and I still like to eat when I am there

Again JY?

If you had to wear clothes specific to your work, who pays for them? My business (me) pays for my clothes, and I claim tax relief on this. I cannot claim for the clothes I’m wearing while I’m driving to work. Also, I pointed out earlier in the thread, you can only claim for food while you’re staying away from home, in the same way that your employer should give you a food allowance if you’re working away from home. I’m working away from home today, but not staying away so I can’t claim tax relief on my lunch today.

Indeed but you cannot expect people being asked to pay their weekly wage for a days work to not think it is a lot of money because it is.

The richest peole I know aren’t plumbers, electricians or crpenters. They work in finance, law and ‘media’. They live in big houses in affluent parts of London, have plenty of overseas holidays and drive nice cars etc. I dread to think whet their hourlry rates are. They still moan at how ‘expensive’ tradesmen are though. 😕

Indeed, I can’t expense my lunch each day, nor can I expense my work clothes as I work in a fairly casual office and can’t demonstrate that the clothes are work specific (they aren’t anyway). Plus I don’t get paid holidays, sick leave, a pension, health insurance or any other benefits at all.
Anyway, it’s up to you, if you fancy the contract self-employed lifestyle more, crack on and do it, you might be better off, you might not.

If you had to wear clothes specific to your work, who pays for them?

Me after tax. You before tax as an expense.
You think I wear the same clothes at home as I do at work?
You think I dress business smart at home? I own shirts and suits for a purpose other than work ?
Who does not buy clothes specifically to wear at work?

you can only claim for food while you’re staying away from home

Missed it apologies …stands corrected
As I keep saying both have their advantages and their disadvantages.

IME, of the few folk i know who are self employed i would say two things

1. they work much harder and longer hours than i do and are often nervous about where trhe money is coming from to pay the bills and overheads
2. they [gently] exploit the system where they can be it not putting everything through the books or claiming for things that are 50/50 personal/ business such as phones/computers/vehicles etc

DP

Me after tax. You before tax as an expense.
You think I wear the same clothes at home as I do at work?
You think I dress business smart at home? I own shirts and suits for a purpose other than work ?
Who does not buy clothes specifically to wear at work?

Oh come on now, you know perfectly well what I mean. My work clothing, trousers, gloves, glasses, is all specific to my job. I don’t wear flooring troons anywhere else other than work. My question to you was regarding specificity of the clothing.

As for “gently” taking the piss, you realise the taxman is entitled to inspect my books (as far back as 2007 afaik) and has no concept of “gently” (unless I’m a multi-billion turnover multinational of course). If I’m taking the piss, he’ll ask for the money back, with interest if applicable. Also, afaik, HMRC now view things like mobile phones as essential to the running of a business, not a luxury and so does not require splitting of personal and business use, unless the figures are very large. If you have a problem with self-employed folk taking the piss, then your problem is with the persons rather than with the concept. Plenty of us stick to the rules.

The clothes I am sat in now are specifically for work , they were bought for work, they get worn only at work. They are work clothes if i stop work i wont wear them.

Can we agree the fact you pay for your phone pre tax and use it for personal use is a perk I dont have then? My sick pay is a perk you dont have

As i said swings and roundabouts

Plenty of us stick to the rules

It was not a dig tbh I think almost all humans [ myself included] would do some of this.

I serosly doubt that this kind of ‘tax fraud’ is in anywhere near the same league as Vodafone, Google, Amazon etc.

I’m not sure they’re involved in fraud – unless you know something?!

Anyway, I most people charge what the market can stand so no point complaining about what tradesmen charge as why should they charge less than they can? If they’re being fraudulent then that’s an issue of course.

Anyway, I most people charge what the market can stand so no point complaining about what tradesmen charge as why should they charge less than they can?

A lot of the time it boils down to the fact that “white collar” types don’t seem to like the idea that people who get their hands dirty for a living appear to be earning decent money.

I’ve had many conversations with professional people, who “jokingly” talk down my job, and trivialise the skill and training needed to do it. While still needing me to do it because they can’t do it themselves.

And the times I’ve been told by customers “I’m in the wrong job, I should be doing what you’re doing” when they pay the bill for having paintwork rectification on their £80k car 🙄

As a (desk bound) full timer, I know (give or take a few quid) exactly what my time gets billed out to customer projects.

Average day rates for trades always seems fairly reasonable to me.

The clothes I am sat in now are specifically for work , they were bought for work, they get worn only at work. They are work clothes if i stop work i wont wear them.

Clearly, you’re not stupid, so I can only assume you’re being deliberately silly. If your work clothes had an element of PPE, who pays for them? I explained that there are clothes I wear to work that I then remove and change into my work clothing. I cannot claim for any of these. Some of my work t-shirts are old ones which I no longer wear casually. I have never claimed for them. Did you pay for your seat at work? Did you pay for your desk? These are questions I’ve asked a few times, but you’ve not answered them. That you wear different clothes for work that are not PPE, but are somehow so horrid that you’d not wear them outside work is either your personal choice or a convention at your place of work.

As for “perks”, I’m not sure I’ve seen that written down on the HMRC website. It seems just a word made up by someone who doesn’t like the rules applied to others.

Can we agree the fact you pay for your phone pre tax and use it for personal use is a perk I dont have then?

If you class getting the taxman to chip in 20% on a phone that gets used about 80% for work a ‘perk’ then OK. Do you have a work phone or work computer that you occasionally use for for personal stuff at zero cost to you?

I have both I dont use either for personal use. I may well be an exception here and I have not denied that employment has its advantages or perks as fdoes self employment – though the later seems controversial with those who have chosen to be self employed.

A lot of the time it boils down to the fact that “white collar” types don’t seem to like the idea that people who get their hands dirty for a living appear to be earning decent money.

Indeed some will do this.

DD I am not attacking you or the self employed, I am not saying you all fiddle that you all over charge or anything else, calm down.
The case is there are some benefits to being self employed and some to being employed.

Did you pay for your seat at work? Did you pay for your desk?

I recognised a rhetorical question when I saw it. FWIW my work did not pay for it either but I get the point being made.

That you wear different clothes for work that are not PPE, but are somehow so horrid that you’d not wear them outside work is either your personal choice or a convention at your place of work.

I explained about business smart so why do this? I buy clothes only for work. My old t-shirts wont pass the test. I am not trying to wind you up here so really.

I dont think the self employed are swimming in the lap of luxury and it is still swings and roundabouts.

Some people on here still struggling with the concept that you have to more or less half your hourly rate to work out how much money you can take out of your business. If you don’t believe this then you need to try for yourself. I think in the long run you don’t do massively much better financially being self employed then employed; you have a lot more stress but ultimately more satisfaction at the end of the day.
My problem with work wear is the default sizing of 5’10” and 14 stone rather than a Chickenman sized 6’2″ and 10 stone…

I’m self employed have been for 6 yrs now, totally legit.

Used to feel guilty about how much i was making, don’t amymore it’s business.

I work super hard and make no apologies for making good money.

If you’re jealous do it yourself.

As a plasterer of 31 years standing,may I just take this opp to offer discounted rates to STW members*

*I will be looking at posting history first before offering a rate 😈

i have just had a lovely day in work. the last month ive been building a wall for a customer which im really happy with the finish of. my customer was understanding when i sat down and explained why the materials cost has escalated and is happy which means i am too.
oh, and we have been watching dolphins leaping out of the bristol channel for the last few days, and my hair has gone white-blonde from all the sun the past few weeks.

i love being self employed today.

however i hate being self employed when im ill, its raining, a job takes longer than i thought and my direct debits are going out, i want to apply for credit, my friends are going camping for 4 days cos its a bank holiday, my friends are using up their holiday allowance, i try and arrange a date on a day when the weather is bad, i have to turn down free tickets to glastonbury to crack on with a job, get a mortgage? wow thats fun when your a sole trader. etc etc

it is swings and roundabouts, but it suits me. and i wouldnt change it for the world

As a plasterer of 31 years

31 years plastering and your arm has not fallow off! You deserve every penny you can get!

31 years plastering and your arm has not fallow off! You deserve every penny you can get!

I have been a teacher for 10years,however as soon as holidays start,phone goes mental. Still, new Reba’s this week 😉 (as well as holiday spending money)

Plastering is actually hard work. As such, I don’t believe duckie has ever really done it full time. 😛

So what’s been the result of all that previous chit chat?
My tuppence worth, I’ve currently got two lads on site, one a quality builder and the other his labourer.
At the moment they are fetching down over boarded Victorian lath and plaster ceilings. Charging a grand a week for them both.
I’d want a grand a week after tax to do it, horrible bloody job!
Sometimes people just want/need the work.

Just as a balance, some of the engineering rates at our place are charged the the customer at around £120 per HOUR. And I’d say the plumbers, sparkies, plasterers etc are working a damn sight harder than they are for their £400pd.