Top Chief, no fun

Probably a contrarian opinion here, but I didn’t enjoy this at all. Can’t remember any other trail where I’ve thought, wtf, why am I doing this. I’d read threads (now locked for new replies) on here about it, and watched many videos, from people smashing it at good speed to others at more average person speed.

First run down I rode every feature to learn them, a few only after stopping to inspect first and then going back a bit to reapproach (quiet day so fine). Needed a few breaks to recover during the top half as it’s pretty tiring. At the halfway fence I was thinking I’m not doing that self punishment again, but gave it another chance as it’s uplifted anyway. 2nd run was a lot more comfortable with a bit of speed floating over the rocks more, but still by halfway I was knackered and after a break was just too tired to enjoy the bottom half. Called it quits after that, had enough, don’t have the skills or fitness to enjoy it, and I felt my luck would inevitably run out exacerbated by tiredness.

It was quite a bit steeper than I expected, and constantly steepish at that on the rocky sections. So you’re almost constantly needing to brake to control speed, while avoiding braking too much on rocky holes/dips that will catch your front wheel and send you OTB.

The rocky sections are pretty chunky, there are big bumps and holes/slits in the slab, and many rocks strewn around the place. There are things everywhere to get your wheels stuck in and stall your momentum or send you OTB, some in particular at lower speed and plenty of others at any speed. I’d say these trail sections aren’t built for passage of bikes/walkers/horses etc., unlike other trails which I’d say generally are with some challenging features now and again. It’s just a sustained awkward challenge, which is really the point. The cruise along the boardwalks gave a welcome respite. On another thread here some people said it’s easier than Laggan black – I say while the hardest feature may be about the same, the Top Chief rocky sections are like an almost constant black grade feature.

It’s a pretty consequential trail to fall off your bike on at any speed. On the rocky sections you’ll be tumbling down a fair bit down the trail due to the steepness, or off the side. Either way, you’re almost certainly going to hit multiple parts of your body on rocks multiple times. Personally I’d consider full face helmet, knee and elbow pads minimum. Then the boardwalk, it’s easy to stay on cruising down even in wind (just watch the hairpin corner), but if you mess it up then you’re looking at a fall of about a metre off the side onto rough grassy ground.

So this trail certainly got the measure of me. And that’s fine really, found something I didn’t like, although I wish I did. Certainly harder than Tweed Valley blacks, Laggan black, Innerleithen, various Lakes/Yorkshire mountain trails. I was on a trail FS 29er bike 140/130mm with 65 deg head angle, I wouldn’t have wanted to try it on any “less” bike, certainly not with a smaller front wheel or a hardtail.

That’s my review, hope it might help anyone here or random people finding advice about it via Google.

It’s a very particular sort of beast so it’s no surprise some people don’t dig it. I love it tbh, only rode it a couple of times last weekend because I was having a blast on the dh for the first time in a long time, but a clean and tidy top to bottom run of the black is a joy. It’s awkward and technical and committing and basically pretty different to just about everything I ride, I’d argue the most characterful and unique “trail centre trail” in the country. Equally, I did land on my head on one of those runs.

But you’re absolutely right, it’s difficult and it’s physical and it’s high consequence. And it used to be a red (and was a little harder, back then!) The difficulty’s definitely amplified by how constant it is, there’s a couple of really pretty long sections where you’re always having to do something without any recovery time so the stress can build and little mistakes become disasters and it’s just hard to remember where to be (which is kind of cruel, because the better you are, the more lines are viable but the harder you’re finding it, the more you want to be on the exact line you planned and avoiding the jankier or harder or scarier ones.)

If it were all broken into short sections with one real crux move, like Laggan frinstance with mellow dirt inbetween to recover, it’d seem massively easier than it does when it’s all mashed together. As it is, it’s barely less difficult than if you take the easier lines on the dh. I definitely think some of Laggan’s features are harder but I can see why people could find the entire top-to-bottom harder, more than the sum of its parts.

And that uniqueness and character also means unfamiliarity for a whole lot of people. I was there the week it opened and it was just absolute carnage, word hadn’t got out so the whole thing was covered in people in lycra or on hire Hardrocks who were used to Glentress red or black or Llandegla or whatever. According to the builders, they’d planned a relatively normal trail centre red but thrown the plans out when they found so many cool rocks 😛 But the management had stuck with teh red grade. It was plain irresponsible imo and I’m glad they fixed it. Equally though, I was on a 26 inch Soul and frankly had no idea what I was doing and had an absolute blast, first ever uplift and the hardest thing I’d ever ridden at the time by a long way.

And it used to be a red

The first time I rode it (when it was still a red and extremely wet) I passed a young lass pushing her bike just after the end of the top boardwalk. She’d been convinced to give it a try by her boyfriend, who I passed a bit further down and who’d obviously never ridden it before. He’d told her it would be just like the red at Glentress but with a lift to the top. She looked terrified and asked if there was an easier way back down? After explaining I’d never done it before I told her to get off  the bike at any bits she wasn’t comfortable trying. When I passed the boyfriend further down he asked if I’d seen her, and from  the look on his face he knew he was gonna get it with both barrels  when she caught up. Personally I think it’s one of the best descents in the UK but each to their own. I still can’t believe someone decided to grade it as red when it first opened though

I’ve only ridden half due to the lift being shut that day and we pushed up as far as we could be bothered in the minor hurricane conditions, but yeah, wasn’t keen at all really.
Found it highly nadgery but not in a good way and just kind of unpleasant 🤔

Probably not a fair assessment after essentially half of one run of course but I wouldn’t have rushed back to do it again and won’t in future.

For contrast, Laggan black has to be easily my favourite trail centre run in the UK.
Absolutely love that trail.
They’re both rough and technical, but nothing alike for me.

Its years since I rode it (Cotic Hemlock with 160/100 trave) but I really enjoyed it. At that time I was trailbuilding at Stainburn and it was like someone had built a Warren Boulder Trail that went on forever…

On our third run down my wife cleaned it on her ancient Rocky Mountain Slayer 50 with lots of eeks and shreiks and laughter. I do remember feeling very proud and thinking, thats no Red!

I like variety in my riding, I expect I’d still enjoy it as a contrast to all the wonderful new flow trails that have been built.

We were up at Laggan recently as a family and thought it was a perfect place for a family with mixed abilities, I finished by nipping up to ride the black. I wish I lived a lot closer (Yorkshire based) because thats the best black trail in the country for me.

I didn’t like it the first time I rode it (first run of a day on the gondola). Hate the boardwalk and it felt abrupt for that into the steep slabs.

Then rode the WC track all day.

Finished with another go at Top Chief and it felt much better (and easier TBH).

Rode it about 20 years ago when it was a red – commented at the time it should be black. Enjoyed it though

one of my favourite trails ever. pretty much absolutely relentless from start to finish. The highlight was actually racing it in a Scottish Enduro Series race. Absolutely burst by the end of it but still the best stage I’ve ever done

I did it a couple of years back – it was still a red then as well, and it all came as a bit of surprise. You definitely need to be on the top of your game, and my first run very quickly turned into a sighting run. On my second time around I felt much more comfy and really enjoyed it I love the way it changes character on the way down, but as @Northwind says, there’s sections that are no breaks, and it’s a tough challenge to be sure. Met a father and young son a bit further down on my 2nd run and dad was asking me if I knew an easier way down as his lad was pretty scared, I’m glad they upped the rating, there’s no way it was a red. It was windy when I did it as well, and the boardwalk was by far the worst section for me.

I did Glencoe on the same holiday and I still think that the DH there is the hardest track open to the public

we rode it on a gents drinking week away about 15 years ago IIRC.

i was riding a Singular swift 29 fitted with some White bros forks, it was pretty ace.

one of the older blokes was on a P7 with a sprung Brooks saddle and a Carradice saddlebag.

he didnt enjoy it as much………..  lol

Don’t ride Heartbreak ridge if you didn’t enjoy it. it a challenging trail for sure. find the DH track easier.

you’ll certainly know if your suspension is set up well riding it. I personally wouldn’t drive to ride it

I also rode it not long after opening on my then-new 26″ Orange 5. First experience of uplift riding and found it do-able, if pretty full-on. I too saw some poor, lost souls pushing down it, looking like the Bogey Man had humped their leg. Calling it any sort of red was pretty irresponsible; I suppose that the only way you could justify it would be to say that there’s no mandatory drops/air, but you’d be stretching credulity clingfilm-thin.

Weirdly, I haven’t ridden it since. Must rectify!

Don’t ride Heartbreak ridge if you didn’t enjoy it.

HBR has the slabs in common, but it is significantly less steep, if memory serves.

I wouldn’t put people off it on that basis personally.

Calling it any sort of red was pretty irresponsible; I suppose that the only way you could justify it would be to say that there’s no mandatory drops/air, but you’d be stretching credulity clingfilm-thin.

I’ve heard people say, but it’s a DH Red not an XC Red like the ones in Laggan/Glentress… which always seemed a pretty rubbish argument to me. Definitely a black and calling it anything else is always going to lead to miserable folks walking down it.

I think it’s a great track. Did the enduro on it some years ago – that was a bruising run down 🤣. It’s much harder to ride fast than I thought, even if you’ve cruised down it many times.

I do think the WC course is, if anything, easier. (Or rather, there are route choices on the WC course that make it easier). Took us a few visits to try the WC run (pretty intimidated) and it was easier and more fun than we expected. So, if you’re getting down the Top Chief well enough, go an have a blast on the WC course.

I also rode it back when it was a ‘Red’ and thought I was about to die for about 80% of it the first time. After a few runs I started to get the hang of it ans was actually enjoying it by the end of the day. I definitely learned a lot about staying calm and committed that day!

I wasn’t a fan when I did it, a good bit of the boardwalk was in poor condition and the wire had worn away or broken so it was incredible slippery. The rocky stuff was better but still not as good as the WC track. I found the blue waste of a trip in the gondola too.

I love it. One of my favourite tracks and in terms of its grading I’d say it’s a rarity in the UK that it comes close to the Canadian grading of a black. It reminds me of sections in Whistler. My wife and I rode it on this day last year (Birthday treat – we stayed 2 nights at the just opened on site hotel). She hated it and walked lots of it. I totally loved it. I don’t think that’s a riding ability thing entirely either, although you do need to have a lot of experience to ride it. I know people who are better riders than me who hate it. I love it’s relentless technicality. There’s no flow really which means it’s a trail you can’t relax on and you need to be watching ahead all the time and picking your line. I love it because the sense of achievement of getting down cleanly is not dependant on being fast. I love those moments where you have to almost trackstand and think about your line before giving it a go. For me, riding it fast is not what it’s for. Riding it clean is the challenge.

@poah – I don’t think I would necessarily compare them like that. There is one little section of HBR that made me pause for thought (the rock roll half way down the front that’s short but steeeeeeep – avoidable on the bike too IIRC) but otherwise HBR is way easier to find flow on due to it’s shallow gradient. I found it more just janky rather than full on committing and scary.

Top Chief I went comparatively early into my MTB career a couple years ago after watching YouTubers like McTrail Rider absolutely nailing it with the GoPro effect. I pretty much walked 75% of the slabs. I think I’d like to give it a go again as I can mince down the Laggan Black well enough these days (Though I don’t think I will ever ride Air’s Rock).

It’s funny what goes on in your head. I rode Laggan when it opened, back when 80-100mm forks were the norm, v brakes were king and tyres were 2.1″ of sketch. Airs rock was no bother but the black required a lot of confidence because your skills compensators were so limited. I try not to judge a trail on one ride because we can all have a bad day on a really good trail. I didn’t much care for Kirroughtree when I first rode it but have loved it every time since.

I definitely think some of Laggan’s features are harder

The big 3 step drop near the start, and the long rock staircase near the end? On the black.

But the management had stuck with teh red grade. It was plain irresponsible imo and I’m glad they fixed it.

Must have had in the hundreds of hospital visits over the years, even after the regrading.

This?

Never ridden it, but it doesn’t look that bad other than the miles of boardwalk.

Two visits to the Aonach Mor uplift, but ridden Top Chief multiple times. I love it. First visit was on my old 26er BFe so as a distinctly average rider I wasn’t fast down it but I followed the pink dots and got down first time pretty clean. Once you’ve got down it you an start to look for better lies and bit more speed.

Second time I was up there was on my Rocket and it was so much more fun. I also did the DH run that visit and can totally understand why people consider Top Chief to be more tech.

TBH, I don’t think it’s that tough a trail. Technical and awkward, but not worryingly so IMO. Conversely, as much as I love Laggan, I’ve not yet managed the Black there and I don’t really do the Blacks at BPW either. Last time at Laggan in the summer just gone I rode gingerly up to the first rock garden and bailed to the Upper Red instead.

Horses for courses I reckon.

Still not ridden it but have done the WC on hardtails so not too put off.

Glencoe black though. That does look terrifying, just stuck to the red when I went. Black is commit or be ready for pain.

This?

Never ridden it, but it doesn’t look that bad other than the miles of boardwalk.

Yes. Doesn’t look bad at all ridden by an ex-pro racer, on a 170mm bike, seen from a GoPro.

Conversely, as much as I love Laggan, I’ve not yet managed the Black there and I don’t really do the Blacks at BPW either. Last time at Laggan in the summer just gone I rode gingerly up to the first rock garden and bailed to the Upper Red instead.

Horses for courses I reckon.

Indeed, I found the Laggan black just fine. Again first run just sighting things, stopping to look at some bits, then going back a little to ride into them.

I’ve heard people say, but it’s a DH Red not an XC Red like the ones in Laggan/Glentress… which always seemed a pretty rubbish argument to me.

Looking at videos of the Glencoe DH Red, it does look somewhat similar difficulty.

Glencoe black though. That does look terrifying, just stuck to the red when I went. Black is commit or be ready for pain.

It does.

Re the dh I reckon the current version, even discounting bits where there’s official easy options like at the stonepitched world cup woods and the river gap, is harder for mincers than it’s ever been in the (**** me) 14 years I’ve been riding it. Some of the changes that make me feel that, up near the top, are from just the last year or two so I’d be a wee bit careful if you’ve not done it for a while. It’s still the same creature but it’s imo quite a bit nastier.

It’s funny actually, I’m just watching the chest cam of my first ever run down the thing and I’d just sort of overlooked how much it’s really changedd, I could have told you about a couple of features and obviously the motorway is massively different but there’s big differences almost all the way down.

I did a couple of runs last weekend with a friend who’s still mastering parts of it and so I spent a lot more time stopping and looking than I’d normally do… and tbf compared with my own first run, I think if I was to turn up today on that Hemlock with the same skill level I had then I’d really struggle, back in 2009 I rode very nearly everything blind with just a couple of quick stop-and-looks. I absolutely wouldn’t have done that on the current version, nor got on as well the first time I raced there in 2011. But it’s sort of crept up!

Full Member

I’ve heard people say, but it’s a DH Red not an XC Red like the ones in Laggan/Glentress… which always seemed a pretty rubbish argument to me

And it was bobbins anyway, the sign at the start used the same wording as they used for the world champs red down in the forest, and in the skills area.

View post on imgur.com

@northwind you’ve basically ridden it in the time I haven’t so it’s good to know it’s not as “easy” as it was.

It’d be horrible to ride if you’re not fit, as in capable of +5 mins descents at 100% concentration.

I did it a couple of years ago, took a sighting lap down after doing the ‘blue’, then did a DH.  I then did all three again as full runs and at a ‘pace’.

It’s a full-on ‘trail’ and works best when ridden at speed, but boy, don’t fall off…

Glencoe black though. That does look terrifying, just stuck to the red when I went. Black is commit or be ready for pain.

I’d rate Glencoe Red as a bit easier than Top Chief personally, the Black DH though is a proper beast of a thing. I did it blind and I’m not ashamed to say that I walked a few sections (riding solo on a regular FS) and I wasn’t in a massive hurry to have another go.

@elray89

not about the steepness but the rocks.

@nickc you walked? How?

It’d be horrible to ride if you’re not fit, as in capable of +5 mins descents at 100% concentration.

Yup, deer fence was always packed with folk having a rest. Always made a full run come Sunday but it was brutal getting up to speed.

Yep, I used to do the endurance dh race every year and that was always really interesting, I was an 8 minute plodder and just a total waste of a race board at a proper race, but I could do that 8 minute lap all day long… there’d always be a load of properly fast riders who’d stick in 3, maybe 4 laps at sda race run pace then die, or destroy their bikes, some who took 20 minutes a run but literally never stopped for the 6 hours and just kept chewing away, proper tortoise and hare stuff. To actually win it you had to be able to do both and really not many people could. (and then you had Jesse Wigman doing 13 runs on a rigid dirt jump bike)

So no wonder the car park is always full of people who’re chilling out on their way to a 6 or 7 run day.

Must be horses for courses I guess. We are heading back to Fortwilliam in June, and it’s Top Chief that I’m most excited about. It’s probably my favourite man-made trail that I’ve ever ridden.

I agree with the sentiment above, the best manmade trail I’ve ever ridden. I only rode it once as I was on a munro bagging trip that day. You get used to mental rocks fairly quickly like you do steep Golfie chutes… always seems impossible until you get your eye in.

@squirrelking gingerly maybe whimpering occasionally 🙂

Its always been pretty divisive to be sure.  For me at least, the boardwalk is a real mental challenge which pretty much ruins the rest of the decent stuff on that trail.  Still, when so much of the upper part of the mountain is essentially bog, what else could they do.  I guess there is also the blue…..Oh wait..