Titanium Gearbox Hardtails?

I’ve been putting together a hypothetical hardtail build that I may or may not build later this year, and it started out as a ‘normal’ hardcore Ti hardtail, then I fancied a SS option for winter muck (with a mullet 27.5/29, just because), and now, thanks to spotting the Sonder Signal Ti gearbox, I’ve managed to slip down the rabbit hole into the world of Hardcore, Titanium, Gearbox bikes… 😀

So, (god help me, and my wallet….) what’s out there for 29er, modern Geo (480 minimum reach on size XL, 66 or slacker HA), titanium, gearbox frames and/or full bikes?

Currently I’ve got the Sonder Signat Ti – £3749 for the full bike

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Oh go on, indulge us…⠀ ⠀ We got a bit overexcited when we posted this first time round. So overexcited, we didn't even notice that we'd absolutely butchered @joewilkinsphoto's framing…⠀ ⠀ We've felt guilty about it ever since. So here's Product Manager Neil's custom Pinion Signal… again… in all its unadulterated titanium glory (plus a few extra shots).⠀ ⠀ #SonderBikes #Pinion #TitaniumDreamMachines #BikesToOrder #CustomTitaniumBike⠀ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀ ⠀ #titaniumbike #hardtailmtb #mtb #mtbgram #mtblove #mtbbike #mtbike #mtbiking #mtbaddict #mtbforlife #mtbpictureoftheday #mtbdaily #mtbphot #mtbuk #ukmtb #mountainbike #mountainbikes #mountainbiking #mountainbikinguk #mountainbikelovers #allmountain #baaw

A post shared by Sonder Bikes (@sonderbikes) on Apr 15, 2020 at 11:27am PDT

And the Nordest LACRAU 2 TI – 2700 euros for the frame + gearbox

Also, apart from the Cinq shifters, is there anything on the market (or coming soon) apart from the standard gripshift? Anything with electronic shifting?

@tomhoward has some knowledge in this area I know

https://www.smokestonebikes.co.uk/tipin-ls

Noooo, fatbike is one niche too many! Just ‘normal’ 29er titanium gearbox hardtails, please 😀

Gearbox Ti hardtails! Have a word with yourself 😉

Next you’ll be looking at Rohloff..

Why don’t you just chuck some cheaper 10 speed (say Sunrace) gear on in the winter and then change to more bling gearing on for the spring.

Interesting though a good way to ruin aesthetics of a Ti frame imo

Rather like this. . Also like the gravel gearbox bike too.

not TI
but Nicolai
But.. also… Nicolai are working on a gearbox i think… before you get way too deep

Why don’t you just chuck some cheaper 10 speed (say Sunrace) gear on in the winter and then change to more bling gearing on for the spring.

The singlespeed thought was to minimise maintenance, especially if we get another winter like the last one – I agree a box prime 9 or similar would be more robust but not as good as a SS.

A gearbox gives the same benefits of SS, but with the added advantage of not throwing up at the top of every climb.

This is all just window shopping but what else am I going to do with my time?! I 100% do want to build a hardtail later this year, and the pinion bike build cost only comes out a little more than a singlespeed or gear build.

But.. also… Nicolai are working on a gearbox i think… before you get way too deep

Ah yes, forgot about that. Will keep an eye out.

Virtually all these frames are made by Waltly Titanium in China, so save yourself a pile of cash and buy direct – they take Paypal and are pretty easy to deal with.

I wondered if it was one manufacturer making all those.

They look pretty similar with tweaks to some bits and bobs.

Yeah there are definite similarities. Although the Sonder is made for 130mm forks, the Nordest for 160mm!! :O

Looking on the Waltly website, the options you have are just staggering, I mean, which one of 10 different top tube profiles do you choose…

My finger was hovering dangerously close to the buy button on the Nordest website for quite some time. Finally gave my head a shake and bought the Kingdom Vendetta. So glad I did. I reckon I would have been forever disappointed by the weight and drag of the gearbox on such a sprightly chassis. When gearboxes get more titanium in them and electronic actuation it might be time to pull the trigger.

I reckon I would have been forever disappointed by the weight and drag of the gearbox on such a sprightly chassis.

This was my first thought, there’s an inherent contradiction is there not?

Well outside of my knowledge and price range but a quick Google throws up these 2:

http://www.pilotcycles.com/frame-customize/locum-pinion/

http://www.pilotcycles.com/frame-customize/duro/

Yeah I’ll definitely need to get a test ride on one to see if I like them.

@pjay thanks, they’re more xc though, that’s the issue – plenty of xc/adventure style frames but not many aggressive hardtail frames.

69 degree head angle… No thanks!

I’ve enjoyed riding singlespeed around these parts in the dry,but it’s non starter for me in the winter(it would start dictating to me where I could ride and I like the freedom to choose what I do/where I go myself)….conditions are usually so heavy going here it doesn’t work for me and I’d love it too.
I’ve often thought about how nice a light minimal drag say 3 speed gearbox bike could be but then again my 11 speed hardtail with it’s good mud clearance just works….and keeps working(ish).

’ve enjoyed riding singlespeed around these parts in the dry, but it’s non starter for me in the winter(it would start dictating to me where I could ride and I like the freedom to choose what I do/where I go myself)….conditions are usually so heavy going here it doesn’t work for me and I’d love it too.
I’ve often thought about how nice a light minimal drag say 3 speed gearbox bike could be

This is pretty much why I built up a ‘hardcore’ hardtail with an Alfine 8.
DMR Trailstar, 160mm forks, Flow EX rimmed wheels, 2.6 Enduro tyres with a rear insert, Hope Brakes, 150mm dropper, and an Alfine at the back.
You don’t notice any extra rear weight bias when the bike is built for solidity rather than light-weight 😉
Works all winter with minimal fuss, and I can then change it to a SS if I want in the summer, or just carry on with my minimal maintenance routine.

I was thinking custom, my non-gearbox ti LLS was made not by XACD, its been great.

Thinking about a gearbox 36er, just because, you know, 29+ is too mainstream, would go through them again.

Maybe use Andy at Spanner bikes to reduce the risks?

Whoa there, Kingfish!

Wait for Fresh Goods Friday next week where you will see a Kindernay hub equipped Salsa Timberjack Ti bike. I should know as I am testing it!!!

Arriving courtesy of Kevin and Kelvin at Ghyllside Cycles. The hub design allows you to change wheel sizes without buying a new gearbox hub.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Intrigued to see how it rides. Under bar shifter design too which neither Pinion nor Rolhoff offer as standard. No £300 up charge for Cinq set. I’ve ridden both Pinion and Rolhoff so can properly compare set ups.

</span>

I still like normal derailleurs so interested to see just how good the Kindernay set up is.

Cheers

Sanny

Looking on the Waltly website, the options you have are just staggering

Yup just spent an age wondering around their site

Agonised over all of this for many years as I love the idea of an encased, worry free, drivetrain. Rohloff is rear heavy but mechanically more efficient, Pinion is low and central, uses cheap to run singlespeed 650/700c wheels but is less efficient etc etc. After much hand wringing, I bought a 2 x 11 Planet X Tempest. Lighter, more efficient and way less than half the price. Yes, the drivetrain needs more care but it just works and I won’t need to sell a kidney for parts if it breaks.

Jings! Anybody with a better knowledge of geometry point me to which one of those walty frames would be a 130 boost, 2.6 tyre option? Same geo and probably factory as the branded ones for half the price.

Oof just seen the Q-factor on those Pinions. That’s enough to put me off them.

The pinion c1.12 which most of the mtbs have is a 166mm q factor, the E13 trsr cranks on my Jeffsy are 176mm, so not sure what you mean?

The main flaw in the pinion gearbox seems to be the low engagement on the freewheel mechanism in the box, but like the weight, and the grip shift I’m sure it’s something you’d get used to.

Oof just seen the Q-factor on those Pinions. That’s enough to put me off them.

Pinion quote 166mm for the c-line. The original P1-18 was 174mm

Shimano XT is 176mm

??

the weight, and the grip shift I’m sure it’s something you’d get used to.

The weight and grip shift weren’t a problem on my Helius AC Pinion and the balance and handling were great and Pinion always felt more efficient than Rohloff in use. I think most of it is perceived ‘grinding’ sensation with gearbox rather than true power loss and the Pinion feels smoother (the only hub that actually feels ‘draggy’ to me is the Alfine but I still think it’s the best thing for a city bike)

In terms of weight I could feel the Rohloff on the back of a Helius but was still fun though I never enjoyed my Rohloff hardtail off-road (as a commuter I have no issue with hub gears).

A Pinion hardtail is a really intriguing prospect – it’s going to be heavy but might not ride like it is.

Looking at my spreadsheet with the possible builds the gearbox option on the nordest frame comes out about 2kg heavier than an X01 eagle geared setup, so not massively heavier.

Tbh, when they’ve got an extra 4kg of mud all over them I don’t think it would make a difference!

Comes out about 31lbs or thereabouts. That’s with a bomber z1, 1850g wheelset, 2kg of tyres, so not exactly a ‘lightweight’ biased build.

I know it’s probably not the point but a hard-riding Ti frame seems unlikely to retain all the supposed skippiness and damping as an xc one

… and then you’re putting a gearbox in it

… with some big tyres

I’d be looking at alu or carbon

Comes out about 31lbs or thereabouts

Sounds about right.  I have a Sick Pinion gearbox Ti hardtail.  Pretty sure it is a Waltly.  It is a bit of a lump really and certainly doesn’t have any magical ride qualities but if you want a bike to ride through winter with no worries about the drivetrain and no paint to be precious about as that enduro strap on tube etc grinds the mud in then it does a fine job.  I just wish those idiots could use a tape measure

Sounds about right. I have a Sick Pinion gearbox Ti hardtail. Pretty sure it is a Waltly. It is a bit of a lump really and certainly doesn’t have any magical ride qualities but if you want a bike to ride through winter with no worries about the drivetrain and no paint to be precious about as that enduro strap on tube etc grinds the mud in then it does a fine job. I just wish those idiots could use a tape measure

That is exactly the scenario it would get used in. After seeing my brand new, shiny full suspension bike get caked in mud for 6 months straight, right after being built, I really fancy something that will take the abuse, the mud, and won’t need the chain/rear mech washing after every. single. ride…

Single speed is an option but the belt drive looks even better – no lubrication, just throw some water on it when it gets dusty.