Titanium frame needed; custom or off the peg?

I had a call this afternoon from someone assuming bartyp was me. Which made me chuckle.

Colin – your #pact bike looks awesome, and was great fun to design. Thanks for giving us a chance. It’s much appreciated.

My winter (off the peg) hack (Slackline):

scotroutes, that looks ace, what actual colour is it? can’t work out if it’s green or just reflecting the cables.

looks great, love it 😀

bartyp has a nerve

It’s my thread about my future bike! 😀

I had a call this afternoon from someone assuming bartyp was me. Which made me chuckle.

Really? How funny! 😆

Whether it now feels like a bit of a set up marketing thread as an aside….

I’m beginning to admire Pact’s use of stealth marketing… 😉

Is Ti harder to work with (shape tubes, weld etc) to a high level than steel? I’m sure I read somewhere a while back of the likes of Engin ensuring a super clean environment so the welds aren’t contaminated. Or is that just a myth in my noggin.

Titanium fabricators I’ve spoken to have mentioned the need to a clean environment, so I’d say it’s not a myth. I find it encouraging when a frame builder talks to me about stuff of which I have no knowledge, because it shows that they are dedicated professionals and serious about doing a proper job.

Meanwhile, less talking and a bit more action results in this..

A far-eastern made frame. Looks nice, I wish you health to enjoy it.

http://www.ing.unitn.it/~colombo/telai/approfondimenti_sul_titanio.htm

I find it encouraging when a frame builder talks to me about stuff of which I have no knowledge, because it shows that they are dedicated professionals and serious about doing a proper job.

But that’s not the case when designers talk to you about stuff of which you have no knowledge? 🙂

Not when those ‘designers’ don’t actually know how to build frames themselves, no.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I’m sure you’ll agree that I’m perfectly entitled to that opinion.

Do you think the architect that designed The Shard started as a brickie or does your opinion only stretch to bicycle frames?

Do you think the architect that designed The Shard started as a brickie or does your opinion only stretch to bicycle frames?

That’s irrelevant. If bartyp wants to follow pure process in this way he’s entitled.

I think it’s quite lovely.

It’s a pure experience.

Titchmarsh bikes look cool. I was just googling about him and his dad.

Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.

It’s not Dan’s fault it won though. And it’s a lovely looking bike. But when there are people out there who make their own frame parts, and they get beaten by someone who didn’t, it makes me question the voting process and stuff. But then you can say that for all awards of course.

Not when those ‘designers’ don’t actually know how to build frames themselves, no.

I’ll bet Issigonis could work a press to make a wing, and then weld it onto the sub frame, but what that has to do with designing a world changing car I’m not sure.

Edited : removed unnecessarily rude bit

You’re entitled to your opinion, it’s a bit daft, but your welcome to hold it.

Seems a bit rude.

Very good Scotroutes; your trolling skills are improving! 😀

Difference is, that the architect is part of an overall team who have different roles involved in the construction of a building. So it’s a collaborative effort (although the architect tends to take the credit).

But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering ‘advice’ on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so.

But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering ‘advice’ on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so.

[head wall interface]

so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?

[/head wall interface]

so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?

I’m pretty sure a designer, welder and painter were all involved in producing mine…

But in the context of this thread, when someone is offering ‘advice’ on building a frame, I expect them to have at least some actual experience in doing so

I’m unclear as to why you’re posting on a forum for recreational mountainbikers then, and not professional framebuilders?

Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.

It’s not Dan’s fault it won though. And it’s a lovely looking bike. But when there are people out there who make their own frame parts, and they get beaten by someone who didn’t, it makes me question the voting process and stuff. But then you can say that for all awards of course.

Dan’s bike was commissioned by a customer who specified certain parts. Dan can make custom dropouts and all sorts, if required.

Dan also won an award for this:

I think he deserves some credit.

I think he deserves some credit.

The thing is, if I was to say that I don’t care what you think as you have never made a or designed a frame, so your comments on whether he needs credit or not, to me, are irrelevant, you’d think I was mean.

so a bicycle frame cannot be designed and built by a collaborative team who have different skills, experience and roles?

Of course. And in this case, I’m the ‘designer’. Hence why I don’t need a ‘middle man’.

I’m unclear as to why you’re posting on a forum for recreational mountainbikers then, and not professional framebuilders?

Fair point, although this does appear to be one of the most popular cycling forums. So I expected a greater response.

The thing is, if I was to say that I don’t care what you think as you have never made a or designed a frame, so your comments on whether he needs credit or not, to me, are irrelevant, you’d think I was mean.

Not really. You’re just some random bod on the internet as far as I’m concerned. No offence. You’ve offered a great deal more insight than some others though, I will say that.

Seems a bit rude.

yeah you’re probably right, I’ll change it

I’m the ‘designer’.

You’re really not.

You’re providing a list of requirements, not ‘designing’.

You’re really not.

No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is. I will be specifying particular unique aspects of the bike’s design.That makes me it’s ‘designer’.

If I had chosen another route, sutch as an off the peg frame, or a Pact/travers bike, then you’d be right.

No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is.

No. Not in a similar way to me, at all.

This thread is great! Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some delusional keyboard warrior with no experience 😆 .

So how are you so different? Please explain.

Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some keyboard warrior with no experience

Please point out where this has actually happened?

I’m merely of a different opinion to others, about the potential construction of a bicycle frame for myself. Ultimately, only my opinion matters. I am happy for others to challenge me on this, and to offer their own input, and I might even take some of it on board. But I’m confident of being able to achieve what I want, so i’m happy to continue as I am. I’m not forcing others to offer any input, merely inviting them to do so. If this results in a debate, so be it. I don’t have an issue with that, and neither does Brant, by the looks of things.

As for ‘experience’; you have no idea what experience I have. So how can you possibly comment on this? 😕

No, I really am. In a similar way that Brant is.

Do you understand what brant/travers/cotic do when they design a frame and commission someone to build it?

Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly ‘no’.

Of course, the thing that aggrieved me a tiny bit (which is kind of overstating things anyway) about the Titchmarsh winning the Bespoked award was that it was largely a collection of Paragon Machine Works parts welded together nicely with some tubing in the middle. The front brake hose routing is neat though. And that blue is lovely.

I was with you up to that point. I understand your sentiments and also find the Bespoked judging a bit random.

But after his award winning cargo bike of 2013, Mr Titchmarsh had nothing to prove – that featured quite a bit more engineering (e.g. hub centre steering) than cutting out a pair of dropouts. And the unpainted and unfiled build left nowhere for poor workmanship to hide.

I was also exhibiting my sorry excuses for steel tubed garage bodgery at that show (with no Paragon in sight – all my own dropouts etc) and his was the one bike that stood out over everything else. I kept sneaking back just to stare and spot some other little detail. Real shame I never got to have a chat with him.

But after his award winning cargo bike of 2013, Mr Titchmarsh had nothing to prove – that featured quite a bit more engineering than cutting out a pair of dropouts. And the unpainted and unfiled build left nowhere for poor workmanship to hide

I thought the cargo bike was absolutely fantastic. I still do. It’s an amazing ground up innovative hewn from bare-metal creation. It’s brilliant.

This thread is great! Many skilled and great names in the bike industry getting shot down by some delusional keyboard warrior with no experience .

I can’t believe I took the bait.

Fair point, although this does appear to be one of the most popular cycling forums. So I expected a greater response.

It seems to me that you’ve got the hump because we haven’t all fallen over ourselves in the rush to tickle your tummy.

Barty must have posted whilst I was writing that ^

Hope he enjoys his bike. Will check back next month (this thread seems to wake up every 4 weeks for some reason).

There’s a lot of ugly in this thread and I don’t just mean that weird dropout up there…

Do you understand what brant/travers/cotic do when they design a frame and commission someone to build it?

Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly ‘no’.

I’d imagine they start with an idea, use their experience of such things to work out what is actually feasible, examine any options, think carefully about any issues, do some sketches, maybe even some 3-D computer stuff. Have a think about how the end user will experience the product. Possibly do some ‘market research’. Then approach a suitable manufacturer/s and discuss how to realise their designs. And I’d imagine they would probably need to produce some prototypes in order to gain real-world knowledge of something (at this point I admit I am different, as there will only be one ‘prototype’). They may then go away and refine the design.

They might even use a discussion forum online, to talk to others about stuff.

Am I that far off the mark?

Sorry that was rhetorical, the answer is clearly ‘no’.

Am I that far off the mark?

yep.

their experience

And that’s the other point.

This what an amateur ‘designer’ can do.. . I’d love to compare your efforts of ‘designing’..
What you are doing is sending a requirement to a builder who will then use their experience and knowledge to pull together the spec and build the frame. You can’t warrant what you are doing as ‘designing’ and comparing yourself to Brant and others is laughable 😀 .

I’d imagine

yes, there we go, the route of all the problems in this thread.

It’s easy to think you’re right when a large chunk of your information is from your own imagination.

I’d love to compare your efforts of ‘designing’..

Actually, I really must go and carry on with a commission I’m doing for someone. And then sit down later and ‘design’ another piece that someone else has commissioned. Not related to bikes sadly, but I won’t ask you to reciprocate. I don’t need to prove my credentials on here, as I’m not selling anything on this forum (as advertising would be against forum rules 😉 ).

It’s easy to think you’re right when a large chunk of your information is from your own imagination.

I say ‘imagination’; it’s actually experience of being involved in the design and production of a range of products and services, from jewellery, ornaments and furniture, to elements of graphic design, as well as some photography. Possibly different in terms of actual processes, but I have a rudimentary grasp of the process of designing and manufacturing things. 😀

Not quite sure what you imagined that I imagined.

As I said; time to go and make stuff. See you all later.

That load carrier is fantastic. Just throwing that out there, from someone else who actually does this kind of thing for a living.

The exposed metal is stainless steel: ‘They use a lot of salt on the roads in Sweden,’ says Titchmarsh, ‘I didn’t want any rusting.’

How well do you understand stainless steel, if you think it is corrosion resistant in salt solution?

Is it too late for a rewrite for this here film STW are producing? I’ve discounted Brant’s input into the story based on this thread. What about those halfwits who ‘designed’ the early Saracens, what about Orange?

There’s loads of UK MTB industry stalwarts out there, this is a perfect opportunity to put them in their place.

🙄