Titanium frame needed; custom or off the peg?

The ETT will be appropriate for that so how it compares to a standard cx bike is neither here nor there

I wondered if you’d specified a longer ETT than what Pact would use for a CX bike. IE, if you’re using flat bars (or similar) then you’d have a longer ETT than if using drops. Your bars look somewhere between in terms of reach. If I bought an o-t-p CX frame, I’d need to use a very long stem as they are ‘short’, which would be unsuitable.

I’m not sure what else could be achieved aesthetically

Well, plenty I’m sure! That looks quite ‘plain’ and functional. Which is fine, but I’d like something a bit ‘different’. Things like little details, braze-ons, dropouts, lugs, tube profiles etc. It might end up looking ‘gash’ to others, but as you say, beauty, eye, beholder and that.

Personally I think it looks gash

From what I’ve seen it is a bad idea

I agree with both of you. For the same reasons, pretty much. Plus packing the bike for travel is more difficult with a long seat tube sticking out. But I think it’s good to consider all sorts of ideas at this stage. Currently, I’m erring towards what’s more ‘sensible’, but I see nothing wrong with a bit of quirkyness. A custom one-piece bar and stem is an option; a very expensive one though. And I’m not convinced it wouldn’t be significantly worse than using standard easily available parts. Fun to think about though.

Paul:Basically a cyclocross type geometry

It’s not. I may have told you this, but it’s not.

Paul: I can put 650bx2.2 or 700×40 in there easily. Because those two sizes have the same circumference I can swap wheels (discs of course) and change how the bike is in terms of tyres. The fatter 650b ones make it much more comfortable off road but handles exactly the same.

We had to do some buggering around to get all that to fit. Something that fits 700×40 won’t always fit 650×2.2 of course.

Paul:Aesthetically with hindsight I might have gone for a tapered HT rather than X44 but you know, functionally, it’s grand.

I think aesthetically it’s good with X44. Tapered longer head tubes can look a bit gash. And they do only come in a certain number of lengths whereas I can offer X44 in any length.

Bartyp: I wondered if you’d specified a longer ETT than what Pact would use for a CX bike. IE, if you’re using flat bars (or similar) then you’d have a longer ETT than if using drops

He didn’t, but naturally yes, that would be the correct thing to do if that’s what you wanted clearly. It’s one reason why drop bars on mountainbikes doesn’t work well.

stop with the

gash

already

Integrated seat posts are ok for smaller bikes and can look good if executed well. But, there is more stress on the top of the weld between the top tube and seat tube so I don’t offer them for bigger/heavier riders.

I would build you a frame barty. Maybe something with flat mount discs when I can get hold of a through axle flat mount cross fork next year sometime?

Sorry, can’t figure out how to do the photos.

http://www.titchmarshcycles.com

Thanks, Titchmarsh. I’ve a few other bits and pieces to sort out first (like making space for a new bike by selling others!), and am a massive procrastinator, so I hope to get in touch soon. Thanks for coming on and posting.

This is gorgeous!

This is gorgeous!

No, THIS is gorgeous…

[/url]Custom CNC Machined 17/4 Stainless 15mm Maxle Dropouts by Dan Titchmarsh[/url], on Flickr[/img]

A standard design seat tube clamp area with small diameter aluminium seat post will be the most reliable and comfortable option (a lot of stiff carbon frames are going back to 27.2 seat posts to increase comfort).

Agree, except substitute a carbon seat post for the aluminium one.

Before going to droppers I ran a 27.2 SDG carbon seatpost in my 456Ti, loads of comfort especially when run with a SDG I-Beam flex saddle.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/titchmarsh/22338449639/

Sorry, can’t figure out how to do the photos.

http://www.titchmarshcycles.com

Some lovely stuff on there, beautifully engineered and made 🙂

Cheers, Rich

Thanks for the kind words!

Salesmanship is not my forte barty, just give us a shout if you want to discuss anything. I would think after market flat mount forks will be available early next year so could be worth the wait..

2 things:

Isn’t there a touring bike equivalent of STW that this can be moved on to?

Can someone please email a link to it to all the custom builders likely to be in the frame so they go into it with their eyes open. This could be a challenging assignment and best they’re all aware of it’s potential.

Speeder; feel free to do that yourself, if you feel so strongly about it. 😕

Salesmanship is not my forte barty, just give us a shout if you want to discuss anything.

I’m more interested in someone who knows what they’re doing, than simply someone who just talks about it! And thanks, I will do. 🙂

I’ll see what I can do 😉

I’m more interested in someone who knows what they’re doing, than simply someone who just talks about it!

A bunch of us know what we’re doing – the question is, after 7 pages, do you know what you want?

That’s also something a good talk with a proper framebuilder can help with, of course 😉

Why not consult with one of the American Ti builders, or even the Russian company (their name has slipped my mind) they will have built hundreds of frames rather than in the UK where you will be paying someone who has built one or two frames out of Ti and therefore your project will be as much of an experiment for them as it is you.

If memory serves the two companies Enigma and Nerve who have made lots of titanium stuff probably are too far removed from your specialist desires.

I have read through some of this thread with interest, I have just bought an off the peg titanium bike which hasn’t been mentioned.

Obviously I’m very pleased with it, but it might or might not fit what you are after, worth considering though.

It’s the 2016 Charge Plug 5, titanium frame, discs, 1 X 11 drive chain, 42mm tyres for a very comfy ride. Mudguards eyes, rack eyes.

I’ve been around frame building for 30 years, so it’s hardly an experiment. I’ve also taught some of the ‘proper’ frame builders to TIG weld. But thanks for your concern.

I’m personally not concerned but it might help your sales pitch if there’s more to look at than claims on a forum.

30 years of building, would that make you 45 or 50 ? Or is it one of those borderline credibility things where companies claim “combined 129 years industry experience” or magic a reputation from the two things they made once upon a time.

I’d be really interested to see all those Titanium frames you know perhaps like Moots, Merlin and Firefly clearly have out there. 🙄

This really is the thread that keeps on giving.

I don’t have a sales pitch, I just rely on people being able to tell the difference between shit and clay so to speak. Obviously you go off the number of frames you can see instead, which is the wrong metric to judge me by, but a useful one in most cases I give you that. FYI I’m 39 and am the second generation of frame builder in my family. But, comments like yours really make me question whether I should bother working in this industry and instead work for other engineers who respect my efforts. Anyway say what you like I’m out.

Why not consult with one of the American Ti builders, or even the Russian company (their name has slipped my mind) they will have built hundreds of frames rather than in the UK where you will be paying someone who has built one or two frames out of Ti and therefore your project will be as much of an experiment for them as it is you.

If you’d read the thread properly, you’d have seen that I’ve decided to have a frame made here in the UK, for a number of reasons. As for an ‘experiment’; have you bothered to research Titchmarsh’s work at all? If you had, you’d have seen that Dan has actually won awards for his stuff! And has clearly got some experience at bicycle frame building, in steel as well as Titanium. Which is why we’ll be having a conversation. I’m really not sure why you’ve chosen to challenge him in such a manner. 😕

A bunch of us know what we’re doing – the question is, after 7 pages, do you know what you want?

I had a pretty good idea at the beginning, yes, and despite the best efforts of some individuals, who seem to think they know more than me about what I want and need (and getting a bit arsey because I dared disagree with them), I’m closer to knowing exactly what I want.

@phillxx. We’ll that was unnecessarily rude. Have an opinion by all means but try not to behave like a dick when expressing it. Would you talk to a stranger in the street like that? Probably not unless you were fully expecting a poke in the eye as a response.

Silly boy.

Indeed. I’ve just read an email from Dan, and it is pretty clear he knows his stuff. I asked for people with experience of Titanium frame building to comment on here, and so far, I think he’s the only one who does actually do this. So it’s fantastic to have such knowledgable input.

Philxx; what experience of Titanium frame building do you have?

Philxx; what experience of Titanium frame building do you have?

I personally have made 0 but then I’m not pitching my services.

I own a few custom frames from companies who have made thousands. And I did that because there were 0 companies in the UK So obviously my experience is having frames made for me,

Judging by 7 pages of your expertise I can honestly say based on actually having dealt with a framebuilder or two that a lot will do well to avoid your custom.

I personally have made 0

Ok.

I can honestly say based on actually having dealt with a framebuilder or two that ,a lot will do well to avoid your custom.

😆

Funny how frame builders are actually emailing me with information, then. Or spending 20 mins or more on the ‘phone, happy to discuss things. Fortunately, it seems frame builders themselves are people who are passionate about taking on fresh challenges and exciting projects. You see, I have a pretty good idea of what I want, but not the skills needed to turn those ideas into reality. Hence why I need to employ somebody else to assist me in that. Hence why this thread is very useful to me. And whatever you may think about my ‘attitude’ or whatever, I am concerned only with having a bike made for me, not for anybody else. That’s why it’s important for me, to find somebody who is willing to listen to what I want. Of the people I’ve spoken to so far, most are just that. People capable of listening to a customer’s needs. That is the kind of frame builder I want.

I’m curious why some people seem to have an issue with that.

Sorry I misunderstood , your concerned about only you , its made for you, no one else, we got that loud and clear after all the advice others have spent their time putting forward in this thread

Yet you started a thread on a forum asking a question about custom or off the peg yet at every turn have dismissed great advice from the entire community.

I’m sure there will be plenty chomping at the bit to get your work ,this happened to me also until they discovered it was a PITA project or told me they had a 9-12 month wait list,and they were the lower tier builders.Even the Lynskey I owned was limited by how much and how far they would go.

This thread I am beginning to suspect is more guerilla marketing for one company who will miraculously fulfill your specific high quality stringent superbike requirement than an actual real life rider looking for a bike off the peg or otherwise.

yet at every turn have dismissed great advice from the entire community.

You’re absolutely wrong on this. But then you’re completely unaware of the conversations I’ve had with actual frame builders, others who have Titanium bikes, and people who’ve had frames made, away from this forum. This forum is not ‘the entire community’.

And you’ve been negatively judgmental (not to mention quite rude) about Titchmarsh without appearing to have much if any knowledge about who they are, and what they do.

As for ‘advice’; some of it is little more than the egos of some who seem to think they know better than me, about what I want and need. ‘This is what I did and you should do the same because I did and I know better than you’. Great. Thanks.

Sorry I misunderstood

Yeah, I think you did.

I have now had a great conversation with Titchmarsh, which has really helped crystallise things for me.

Basically, I don’t need a new bike. I want one. I don’t need it to be able to be amazing in terms of performance, I just want it to be capable and comfortable. In short, just I want something nice. I’m not particularly acquisitive; I’m the sort of person who wouldn’t buy a Rolex if a Timex does the same job. But I can appreciate why people want nice things. I can also appreciate that for many, a lot of nice things are a bit out of reach. I’ve certainly not always been in the position to be able to afford stuff. So, all this considered, I do have a pretty good idea of what I want, just not the skills and means to be able to achieve it. Which is where somebody else comes in.

I decided fairly early on that in order to get what I really wanted, not just in terms of the actual product, but also of the whole experience, I will need to get somebody in the UK to make me a frame. As I’ve discovered, there aren’t very many people who can actually do this. What has become important to me, is to be able to help support craftspeople here, and to have a tiny part in supporting the kind of industries this country used to excell at. This is no longer simply about a bike frame; it’s become a personal quest to get a piece of art made.

I don’t actually care if the finished product will be the best bike in the world, or even if other people like it.

The conversation I had yesterday (and other previous conversations with different people), have made it clear that embarking on such a project in this manner, is exciting and full of potential discovery. The finished product will have much more of ‘me’ in it, than some mass-produced frame built in a massive factory thousands of miles away; it will be far more personal.

It seems there really are people out there who understand this. I do hope that some people on here will, in time, come to understand this too.

Oh, and Philxx; I really think you owe Titchmarsh an apology. I think you were very rude towards him imo, and ignorant of his actual credentials. Maybe you’d like to take a few minutes to find out what those are.

He’s mentioned in this Guardian article:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gallery/2014/jun/20/custom-bicycles-gallery

And this is an award winning bike:

Your deluded chap,

His deluded chap? 🙂

I’m not usually one for niche rigid steel bikes but that Titchmarsh does look great.

I’m all for people challenging bartyp’s somewhat, errm, idiosyncratic approach to sourcing a frame but phillxx1975 I think repeatedly having a go at a framebuilder who’s posted on here isn’t really what stw should be about.

I want people who work in the industry to feel free to post on here, share their experiences and while I don;t always agree with what they say, just being rude to and about them isn’t going to further the debate or encourage them to return so let’s not do that please.

Meanwhile, less talking and a bit more action results in this..

DSC_0330 by Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr

Some ideas + great advice from the designer = one happy customer

Your lawn’s dreadful and it looks like the drainage at the end of the garden could be improved.

Yeah, and he’s clearly tried to ride those bars though a gap that wasn’t wide enough 😉

Tyres are a bit fat and it’s shame about the bottom cable cutting across the frame space(but that’s probably just me).
Nice bike though,how are you finding those bars?

Whether it now feels like a bit of a set up marketing thread as an aside….

Is Ti harder to work with (shape tubes, weld etc) to a high level than steel? I’m sure I read somewhere a while back of the likes of Engin ensuring a super clean environment so the welds aren’t contaminated. Or is that just a myth in my noggin.

No, you’re right – Ti is harder work with or at least to do it well.

New lame put down du jour: ‘Your deluded chap’ (sic). Oooo it’s so sharp 🙂

That phil1975 was unnecessarily nasty but bartyp has a nerve considering his form right back on page 1.

Can’t you naughty boys just be civilised?

FatBNimbles on 50mm rims.
Cable is to a side-swing front mech so routing isn’t a choice.
I’ve used the bars on my fatbike for a couple of years. They certainly feel a bit “different” and I like them for the slow-speed maneuverability often required in snow/ice conditions. Not sure they’ll stay on this but they require longer cables/hoses (especially if mounting a handlebar roll) so a good starting point for tweaking.