Over the last couple of years I’ve applied for a few roles. I’ve been lucky enough to be offered 3. But, when the offer comes through, it is less than I was hoping, and less than I would accept to move.

All three offers have been respectfully declined, stating I was looking for more (and its still within the number advertised). All three have come back with basically ‘take it or leave it’. Zero concession, zero negotiation, seemingly angry at the suggestion of a negotiation. All have therefore been declined.

Now this has happened a third time I’m wondering if either its A. me and the way I decline… or B. in my industry you get one offer and thats it.

In the latest debacle, the company is willing to go back out to market and take whatever hit on their immediate plans than offer 3.5k more (which is within the pay band for the role).

Conversations have felt very uncomfortable and akward, last role was internal and the director was getting clearly annoyed that I wasn’t accepting a £250 pa rise for a big increase in responsibilities based on the opportunity and what it might lead too (had unfulfiled promises already from this company)

Help me get better at this! And, yes I know given many people are out of work i am in a lucky position to get offers.

internal roles are always an arse, prove you can do it then i’ll reward you, sometime, , maybe.. um sorry what was the conversation 12 months ago….? don’t get me wrong, you have to show merit beyond your current pay bracket and/or job role, but its all too easy especially in smaller companies to fob you off.

New external roles though are either going through agents so they should be haggling for you, or telling you you want too much or, the comapnies are being tight and will not be worth working or anyway.

the interviews i have i make it clear it’s a two way street and look for fair appraisal of what’s expected, and if above give the opportunity for them to explain how the experience can benefit me above what im offering.

edit: appreciate that didn’t really help too much with the negotiating bit. Being able to negotiate is the first hurdle, but i suppose be prepared as i said for above of what do i offer over other candidates at lower rates – emphasise experience, experience needs to be rewarded.

In the latest debacle, the company is willing to go back out to market and take whatever hit on their immediate plans than offer 3.5k more (which is within the pay band for the role).

They’ll also have to pay 10-15% agency fee if they get someone through an agency…

Does seem mad, but it’s not totally suprising – companinies are suprisingly irrational when it comes to renumertaion. Pay a totally unknown new person 20% more – absolutely fine. Give a well known internal person 5% pay rise – completely unacceptable.

A bloke in a much more senior position than me summed it up thus “If you don’t arrive when you arrive, you’ll never arrive at all”.

companinies are suprisingly irrational when it comes to renumertaion. Pay a totally unknown new person 20% more – absolutely fine. Give a well known internal person 5% pay rise – completely unacceptable.

Ha, I recognise this greatly.

As above, recognise it…

I dont have any tips really, I am not sure there is much that can be said…
Only thoughts are, are you actually qualified & experienced, so could just walk in and hit the ground running, or do you think you come across as needing some work to get you upto being effective.

Ive made the mistake before of accepting less than I wanted on the vague promise of potential to go onto earn more, it never happens until you get fed up an leave, then all of a sudden you were worth what you wanted in the firsts place.

So stick to your guns, if you want more to move, be polite and honest, if they say no walk away but it sounds like you know that anyway…

If they are being like that when you join from external. Just imagine how they might be when they have you inside and you want a pay rise.

“If you don’t arrive when you arrive, you’ll never arrive at all”.

THIS. If they are being stingy whe they need the post filled good luck getting a rise once you are an employee.

I turned a job down once because they knocked £3k off the salary because I had a BA and not a BEng. So they had decided I was the best candidate for the job, but took the first opportunity they could see to start squeezing money. It was a big red flag for me that said if they’re going to be like this before I even accept then I can’t see that they are going to be very good for my career development and training etc going forward.
So, if you ask and they respond like that, then you’re probably better off not working for them in the first place.

I was gonna say always be prepared to decline, sounds like you did and it didn’t work.
If they are all internal then the only sure-fire way to find out your worth is to get a job elsewhere and be prepared to take it.

That extra £3.5k may be in the band, but would it put you near the top of the band restricting further rises? I started a job- happy with the salary but on starting found it was near the top of the band so future rises were limited. If they put me in the next band I would have had a company car & they weren’t sure if the role merited it. Actually did get out of HQ to group factories in 2 years so had use of pool/hire cars. The only compensation was getting wheels without the BIK.

Is it not they advertise a large salary range to get people interested but in reality the bottom of the quoted range is all they intend to offer anyone?

For me its all about justification. Its not enough to say “I was hoping for more” You need to justify why you are worth more. What will you bring to company that will make you worth the extra you are asking for. How will you save them £X in the first year and use examples of when you have achieved this in the past for example. How you will make the company more efficient? In other words what value will YOU add to the company that makes it worth them paying extra for you instead of paying less for the second choice candidate?

I turned one down when the offer was well shy of the numbers mentioned at interview. The interviewer was astounded when I said no thank you even when the name your price email came through. If something is promised it should be delivered not penny-pinched. Mucking around before the new staff is hired is a big red flag.

(It was a bike shop too unfortunately).

For me its all about justification. Its not enough to say “I was hoping for more” You need to justify why you are worth more.

This.

You need to give the person you’re asking a reason to say yes, or persuade others. They might not even care what the reason is, but for most people or orgs there’ll need to be one.

Is it not they advertise a large salary range to get people interested but in reality the bottom of the quoted range is all they intend to offer anyone?

not for me – I might advertise a job at c.30-40K; I’ve got budget sign off for up to 35K and if there is a truly amazing candidate I’ll got and jump through hoops and dance the internal political dance to get the extra. If I offer you 35 and you want 38 – I’m going to have to make a judgement call on whether its easier to go to candidate 2 or persuade the finance director.

However, whether they’ve come through an agency or direct to HR I always have an “expected salary” on the CV/covering paperwork. What pisses me off, and has made me walk away is when someone says £33k there, and I offer £33 or even £35k and they try to negotiate – you told me what you wanted and I met or exceeded it, if this is how you behave now you will be a nightmare to manage! Even worse is if they’ve said they want £38 on the covering letter, I’ve gone and grovelled to get the extra cash and they still say no I want £40k…

Another thing to bear in mind is if there are 4 people doing “your” job in your department all earning £31.5K with a couple of years experience doing exactly what the company needs, and you want to come in on £35k there is potential for all sorts of headaches. Yes perhaps the company has fallen behind market rates, but what you see as a 3.5k difference the political complications of paying you more – unless you are obviously better could make it a £15k cost… [and then the department next door gets wind etc…] But it might still be right to advertise the whole pay band as if an expert who is obviously better comes along you could pay them more.

However, if three people have all offered the OP about the same money and not been willing to negotiate – I’d say either he’s getting “the market rate” (and towards the top end of that) or he’s doing something specific to piss them off like telling them one thing then trying to negotiate another at offer stage. I have candidates who won’t come for interview until they’ve agreed we are willing to offer a salary they would accept – although in some industries that level of cockiness would obviously do more harm than good..

You’ve done the right thing. If they won’t pay you your worth, **** ’em.

Sometimes they don’t want people starting on significantly more than peers as it might cause ructions for the management team but that’s their problem not yours. Unless there’s a reason to want the job beyond the money.

Pay a totally unknown new person 20% more – absolutely fine. Give a well known internal person 5% pay rise – completely unacceptable.

Totally. In fact I’ve witnessed a whole company with over a hundred people go down the drain recently as a direct result of doing this. My best guess is he was an undercover agent planted by the competition to bring the company down. Love to know what he hypnotized the director with.

Companies that mess around before they’ve even hired you are bad news.

I have candidates who won’t come for interview until they’ve agreed we are willing to offer a salary they would accept – although in some industries that level of cockiness would obviously do more harm than good..

Is that really cockiness though? You don’t want to waste your time if they can’t afford you. I’ve had positions pitched to me which on a little probing would be significant pay cuts.

It seems a bit arrogant to me to assume that your salaries are so good/your company is so great that people don’t need to question them.

Now this has happened a third time I’m wondering if either its A. me and the way I decline… or B. in my industry you get one offer and thats it.

Might help if you say what your industry is…

Also worth considering some managers may be on less than the top of the band of their minions. (But usually cos they’re shit at negotiation, which is a reason not to work for them)

Thanks for the comments, the latest role, I was clear I was looking for a rise, and did put the salary I was looking for on the advert and double checked the salary band before applying, otherwise I wouldn’t have wasted people’s time. It is at the top of the band, but it’s the same grade /seniority I’ve been for over a decade, so you’d expect to be at the top wouldn’t you. Or what’s the point in having banding,and suggesting offers are based on experience

Must admit I haven’t focused on the sales bit of why I am asking for more. Maybe I’ve been a bit too negative and honest. Externally, it’s why would I take the risk with a new role, drop a bunch of protection and decent terms for a minimal rise? Internally it’s why would I take on a whole bunch of responsibility for less than a pound a day more… maybe I’m going to be stuck sandbagging at the top end of senior management for ever more…possibly not a bad thing but seriously dull. For me to take a new role I want an immediate noticeable change in income, otherwise it just doesn’t make sense. Of course if redundancy came along, my hand would be forced I had the option recently but the COVID world looks a scary place to be unemployed at the moment and needing to find work

COVID world looks a scary place to be unemployed at the moment

I was in this place last Sep when told I was at risk of redundancy. Confirmed I’d be going at the end of the month. Had an interview mid Sep for a role a 10% less than current salary at the time and no company car.
Went for interview practice and the thought 90% is better than nowt. Got on well with prospective boss and as my experience was want they desperately needed I was offered more than the advertised rate and I started 1st Oct. Due to my performance in the first few months I was given an out of sync pay rise in December so I’m now on the same salary I was before.
Don’t have a company car but got a run around cheap (*) so the cost of fuel, servicing etc per month is less than the BIK tax I was paying.
*helped that my previous company cocked up my redundancy and overpaid so I offset that vs the car cost.
I may have been lucky but there are positives about. I think there are some good signs job wise- agencies I had signed up to are regularly contacting me with other roles.

There’s an excellent book on negotiating that I can recommend. It’s called “Never split the difference”, by Chris Voss. He’s an ex-FBI hostage negotiator and it may sound like a bit of a macho man book but actually it’s a really readable and relatable set of guides for how to prepare for and deal with negotiations. He relates a lot from his own experience, on things like suicide helplines to bank robberies to terrorist hostage situations, and teaches useful principles which apply a lot more widely.

I get no commission for saying this! I was recommended it by a friend and I’ve listened to it twice through on Audible and I’m pretty sure I’ll learn still more hearing it a third time.

COVID world looks a scary place to be unemployed at the moment

It’s actually not bad out there at the moment, better than it has been for 12 months at least. A lot of people out off hiring for a year and it’s now really picking up, there’s been much worse times to look.

For the OP specifically, make sure you know why you’re worth the amount you want. What you can bring to the party, what skills you have, why the increase still offers value. If you can explain that it’ll really help with negotiations.

It’s actually not bad out there at the moment, better than it has been for 12 months at least. A lot of people out off hiring for a year and it’s now really picking up, there’s been much worse times to look.

I think it kinda depends what industry you’re in.

I think it kinda depends what industry you’re in.

Agree, there are always peaks and troughs in the market. But in general, things are positive. Yes, some industry’s are struggling but it’s not the horror show it was 12 months ago.