MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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How elegant, appropriate, satisfying and extremely regrettable is that?
COD4?
Pirates getting shot by seals while under a flag of parlay?
Pr0n film?
the pirates. and i agree with the first three statements.
under a flag of parlay?
no white flags, or other considerations of "truce" were in operation at the time
If you hold a gun to someone's head, you give that person, or someone acting on his/her behalf, permission to kill you
Most gratifying to see this principle in action
Link?
My understanding is that one of the pirates was onboard the USS Bainbridge, that the boat containing the remaining pirates and the captive was in-tow and that Somali elders were negotiating a release. Sounds like parlay to me.
One could suggest that the Americans decided that politically they couldn't be seen to be "negotiating with terrorists" so instead opted for lethal force.
Still, [u]IF[/u] they actually hit 3 for 3 head shots at that range from the back of a boat, shooting at targets on another boat, in rough seas, then that is some seriously fricking impressive marksmanship.
It was all going well until they handed the negotiations over to Phil Spector.
lol @ Bez!
Marksmanship and American in the same sentence. It's a shame they aren't as accurate with helicopter gunships. "friendly fire" anyone? maybe they should let the Navy SEALs fly them instead of National Guard yee haws. 🙄
hearing about people being killed always cheers me up! huzzah!
was it that impressive? I mean the distance for the shots was only 25 yards? They did it with night vision, the targets didn't know what hit them...justice done
Pirates getting shot by seals while under a flag of parlay?
Is this just your own opinion, or is this fact - if the latter then a link to source, please? As someone that was once in the Merchant Navy I am interested in this; personally I wasn't aware of any white flags being flown.
Nah I haven't seen any suggestion that a parlay flag was flying, that was just my crap attempt at some "Pirates of the Caribean" humour, you scurvy dog.
But it does sound to me that a peaceful settlement was in progress and the Americans either got bored waiting or decided it was better to "send a message" than to be seen to be negotiating.
I guess it just means that the Pirates will be much less willing to negotiate next time, and just kill the hostages as soon as it looks dodgy as ultimately its the cargo thats valuable not the crew, as they are just human shields.
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Is this what we're talking about?
send in phil mitchell...
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Actor-turned-presenter Ross Kemp is to front a three-part series for Sky about the Royal Navy's anti-pirate patrols
richc
It's the other way round they just want the vessel and the people, that is what they are ransoming, if they wanted the cargo then they'd all be driving around in tanks stuffing their faces with food aid.
Nah I haven't seen any suggestion that a parlay flag was flying, that was just my crap attempt at some "Pirates of the Caribean" humour, you scurvy dog.But it does sound to me that a peaceful settlement was in progress and the Americans either got bored waiting or decided it was better to "send a message" than to be seen to be negotiating.
I can only feel that a 'peaceful settlement' is only an assumption rather than fact. I can't see how you can negotiate or come to any form of peaceful settlement with pirates - which is what they are, not kidnappers.
I understood that the Capt. of the US Bainbridge had given orders to shoot the Pirates if the Capt. of the Alabama looked to be in danger. One of the Pirates was pointing an AK47 at his back, the US Navy decided that was dangerous...
A peaceful settlement can only come about if ransom is paid. And let's face it - that's what the pirates want. But when the problem starts to escalate a couple dozen bullets is far cheaper than ransom money. And the rest of the world doesn't lose sleep over a couple of dead black kids with guns.
Makes sense to kill them to me.
If you negotiate with them you encourage them to carry on doing it. If you make a hard and fast rule that 100% of the time you will kill them for doing this and 100% of the time there will be no ransom paid then it stands to reason that its not worth doing it. As said above, its not the vessel or the cargo they want, its the crew so they can charge a ransom. Zero tolerance is the only option in stopping this in future.
I would make it common knowledge that this was the protocol.
I foresee the problem from now on being an escalated level of violence that the Somalian pirates will use. The Maersk Alabama was in the fortunate position of being close to a US warship, and the seas are a big place.
There may be more violence used, but that will not necessarily be a good move on the part of the pirates. At the moment they are in a good position - they are able to get a lot of (insurance) money and no-one puts that much energy into chasing them - they are a nuisance. If that changes and hostages get killed, people will sit up and take notice and their peaceful world may get a lot more risky, with military attacks on their bases, imprisonment, difficulty moving their money etc.
Whats the point in the pirates killing the crew they are holding to ransom?
Whats the point in the pirates killing the crew they are holding to ransom?
Not just the crew they are holding to ransom; vessel and cargo, too.
Surely with the kind of tracking systems available today recovering a ship is the easy part. Its the crew that has the value.
Not just the crew they are holding to ransom; vessel and cargo, too.
Yeah but a vessel is far easier to retake when you don't have the threat of hostages being hurt
Nothing new here, even the Romans had a piracy problem in the Med. I think the current approach is too soft, the whole ****ing area should be made off-limits to anything smaller than a cargo ship, and any offenders get sunk. WTF isnt it assumed that at least some of the bounty gets fed to the Islamists in Somalia. Sink the bastards
Surely with the kind of tracking systems available today recovering a ship is the easy part. Its the crew that has the value.
I never said that the crew is worthless.
Also, merchant vessels regularly disappear and then reappear under a different flag/name and colour scheme.
househusband: Not just the crew they are holding to ransom; vessel and cargo, too.
In this particular instance the pirates had abandoned the main vessel, cargo and crew and only held the captain.
nickc: One of the Pirates was pointing an AK47 at his back, the US Navy decided that was dangerous...
According to the Americans. Also the captain was a hostage. I suspect he probably had a gun pointed at him most of the time. I doubt the pirates had any motivation to kill him given they had no means of escape and that he was the only thing protecting them from the full deadly might of a warship just 25 yards from them.
It is interesting to see the way the media, particularly the American media, are spinning this. Boy's Own stories of SEALs being parachuted into the ocean; taking out the bad guys with a single shot in the nick of time; citing that the cargo was food aid for the starving - it was a container ship, I suspect there was a mix, but somehow machinery for uranium mines isn't quite as emotive.
No mention of why the Somalis have turned to piracy. Or what conditions they live in. (not that this justifies the piracy, but it does help understand it).
In the end I think it is fairly certain that, like Maggie during the Embassy siege, a command came from the top to execute them and send a clear message that the US will not be ****ed with.
Whether that was a sensible approach or not remains to be seen.
[i]In the end I think it is fairly certain that, like Maggie during the Embassy siege, a command came from the top to execute them and send a clear message that the US will not be ****ed with.[/i]
I think that is the most certain thing of the whole affair! But you have to say that it was pretty good shooting to actually put it into practice!!
I wouldnt like to be doing the captains linen washing after that.
In the end I think it is fairly certain that, like Maggie during the Embassy siege, a command came from the top to execute them and send a clear message that the US will not be ****ed with.
Agreed.
...a command came from the top to execute them and send a clear message that the US will not be ****ed with.
And that, my friends, is the good ol' USofA.
Its good news for everyone (apart from the pirate’s families) as it takes the media eye of Afghanistan and Iraq for 5 minutes!
Can't have un-winnable wars ruining the nations breakfasts reading now can we...
And that, my friends, is the good ol' USofA.
And when we had Maggie - whatever else you think of her, she would not let UK be done over...maybe Mr Blair and Brown need some lessons from her.
3 pirates shot ?? Nooo, Not Tony Blackburn, Johnnie Walker and Rosko ??
HTTP404:
send in phil mitchell...
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Actor-turned-presenter Ross Kemp is to front a three-part series for Sky about the Royal Navy's anti-pirate patrols
I fink you mean his bruvver Grant.