This Mark Kennedy story about undercover policemen

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 92 total)
  • This Mark Kennedy story about undercover policemen
  • carbon337
    Member

    Do you care? The media have been banging on about it for ages but it seems like one of those stories that nobody cares about.

    MSP
    Member

    I do, and it is starting to look like history is being rewritten, portraying him as a loose cannon, when there are big questions about the polices role in inciting criminal behaviour.

    jota180
    Member

    It’s just another one of those stories that can easily be summed by most people with “so what”

    It’ll keep a few hand-wringers um-ing and ar-ing mind

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    definately trying to make him out as a fall guy here

    people get all worked up about a police state and focus their rage on cctv cameras for some reason, while things like this people ignore

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/20/undercover-police-children-activists

    emsz
    Member

    There was a bloke on the radio this morning who made the point that to listen to someones phone needs the prime ministers signature, but to set up an undercover cop to pretend to live with someone needs just a policemans signature!!

    CaptJon
    Member

    jota180 – Member
    It’s just another one of those stories that can easily be summed by most people with “so what”

    It’ll keep a few hand-wringers um-ing and ar-ing mind

    Yeah, wgaf what the police get do or how they treat their officers. Hey, look, a squirrel.

    wrecker
    Member

    I enjoyed the documentary and thought he came across well. I also feel sorry for him a bit. He’s utterly lost having been shunned by both his colleagues and the protesters he thought were his “friends”.
    The story is pretty fascinating; betrayal, love, confession, violence.

    jota180
    Member

    that to listen to someones phone needs the prime ministers signature

    He’d be a busy man, there was something like 900 application per day a couple of years ago – not seen any recent figures

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    There was a bloke on the radio this morning who made the point that to listen to someones phone needs the prime ministers signature

    Well he got that bit wrong then.

    The brief read I’ve had of the HMIC report in the Guardian criticises both him and his handlers for failing to exercise proper control and managment.

    Reminds me of quotes of an old MPS operation (think it was against a Fraser kid) where a source said ” We wanted Donnie Brasco and got Donnie Fiasco, we wanted infiltration and all we got was penetration”

    Premier Icon Garry_Lager
    Subscriber

    It’s not high on my give a give-a-shit ometer right now. It’s quite funny that a bloke can penetrate to the heart of the green movement by virtue of owning a van with a valid MOT certificate, but that’s about it.

    Thinking seriously about it, though, a lot would depend on how isolated a case it was. No one gave a shite about phone-hacking outside of the guardian for two years, until the full story came out and rocked the entire media apparatus of the UK.
    If it turns out that there is large scale infiltration of lawful organisations (ie not the al qaeda numpties, things like unions, pressure groups, political parties etc), all done in a completely opaque and unaccountable way, then that would be potentially a big story. Even then it might not interest people as there’s a long history of UK governments spying on organisations like the NUM in the 80s, so it’s hardly unheard of. It hinges on the agent provocateur role played by the government I suppose.

    Lifer
    Member

    +1 kimbers

    Two undercover police officers secretly fathered children with political campaigners they had been sent to spy on and later disappeared completely from the lives of their offspring, the Guardian can reveal.

    In both cases, the children have grown up not knowing that their biological fathers – whom they have not seen in decades – were police officers who had adopted fake identities to infiltrate activist groups. Both men have concealed their true identities from the children’s mothers for many years.

    If finding all that disgusting makes me a ‘hand-wringer’ (almost as lame as the PC brigade ‘insult’) then so be it.

    IHN
    Member

    It’s the Home Secretary’s permission for a phone tap BTW (at least that was what the chap said on R4 this mornig, misquoted above).

    A point made was that some of thse operations are against organisations that basically cause a nuisance, rather than ones that commit, or are planning to commit, serious crimes.

    jota180
    Member

    It’s the Home Secretary’s permission for a phone tap BTW

    piece is from a couple of year back but I can’t imagine massive changes

    A total of 653 state bodies — including 474 councils — have the power to intercept private communications.
    Bugging is usually carried out by MI5, MI6, GCHQ and the police and most people are targeted on suspicion of terrorism or serious crime.
    But under laws that came into force eight years ago hundreds of public bodies can carry out surveillance.
    These include the Financial Services Authority, the Ambulance Service and local fire authorities and prison governors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576937/Phones-tapped-at-the-rate-of-1000-a-day.html

    wrecker
    Member

    I don’t pretend to be well enough informed to judge who merits being spied on but fathering children whist doing so is just not cricket.
    The mothers should be entitled to significant compensation IMHO.

    emsz
    Member

    Sorry, it was early, and I wasn’t concentrating that hard!!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Channel Four did a recent documentary on this. Mark Kennedy was stitched up like a kipper. He was interviewed and he was a mess! You couldn’t help but feel sorry for him

    If any other employer treated one of its staff with such incompetence and disinterest while putting them in such potentially life-threatening situations, they’d be paying out some serious dosh at employment tribunals

    Whats equally as worrying are the millions upon millions of pounds of taxpayers money poured into this ‘investigation’ for not far short of ten years! All without securing a single conviction. Not even so much as a caution for a public order offense!

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    A total of 653 state bodies — including 474 councils — have the power to intercept private communications.
    Bugging is usually carried out by MI5, MI6, GCHQ and the police and most people are targeted on suspicion of terrorism or serious crime.
    But under laws that came into force eight years ago hundreds of public bodies can carry out surveillance.
    These include the Financial Services Authority, the Ambulance Service and local fire authorities and prison governors.

    Sounds like sloppy journalism, 653 seems a little high to interecpt comms (more so if you read s6 of RIPA part I) – is this not the number of bodies who can lawfully acquire communications data which is something different. A council will not meet the required criteria for a warrant;

    The Secretary of State shall not issue an interception warrant unless he believes— .

    (3)Subject to the following provisions of this section, a warrant is necessary on grounds falling within this subsection if it is necessary— .
    (a)in the interests of national security; .
    (b)for the purpose of preventing or detecting serious crime; .
    (c)for the purpose of safeguarding the economic well-being of the United Kingdom; or .
    (d)for the purpose, in circumstances appearing to the Secretary of State to be equivalent to those in which he would issue a warrant by virtue of paragraph (b), of giving effect to the provisions of any international mutual assistance agreement.

    RIPA and increased surveillance is a bit of a red herring; hundreds of public bodies carry out surveillance due to the wide definition of surveillance in RIPA (activity that is likely to result in the obtaining of private information about a person (whether or not one specifically identified for the purposes of the investigation or operation))and, prior to RIPA all these bodies were probably still carrying out surveillance it’s just that it wasn’t regulated by law as there was no legislation in place, RIPA was brought in to regulate this activity and does

    I also feel sorry for him a bit. He’s utterly lost having been shunned by both his colleagues and the protesters he thought were his “friends”.

    That’s shocking – you mean the people he befriended so he could spy on to get evidence to have them sent to jail have shunned him. And he can’t think of a single reason why?

    wrecker
    Member

    That’s shocking – you mean the people he befriended so he could spy on to get evidence to have them sent to jail have shunned him. And he can’t think of a single reason why?

    Oddly, he is more concerned about being shunned by them than he is the police. He came across as regretful, heartbroken and lonely. In doing what was asked of him (his job) he was left him with nothing. No job, no family, no friends. Nothing
    I feel sympathy for him. Pretty heartless not to really.

    Pretty heartless not to really.

    yeah, almost as heartless as having a serous and committed relationship for no other reason than to establish a cover from which to spy on your new-found best mates.

    No job, no family, no friends. Nothing

    “karma”

    IanMunro
    Member

    Also on R4 this morning.

    This is the sort of dangerous extremist organisation that the police are sending undercover cops to monitor. Apparently EDL aren’t extreme enough to warrant it though.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg5OlyT4bFk[/video]

    wrecker
    Member

    “karma”

    No empathy with your fellow man then?

    duffmiver
    Member

    He was a pig!! Deserves everything he gets!

    khani
    Member

    He was quite happy to play secret squirrel and screw and lie himself into a group of activists who posed no threat to society when he had the support of fellow and senior officers, now he’s been screwed himself he’s crying, boohoo.. 🙄
    No sympathy here I’m afraid,..he’s just a two faced **** who came unstuck IMO

    chewkw
    Member

    What’s with all this spying things?

    If it means having nookie with some nice looking babes in the protest group … I’m in.

    hora
    Member

    Throughout all this I firmly think the senior Police Officers in charge really are abit Walter Mitty-wannabe MI5. Stepping badly into an area that they should not have ventured.

    Clown Army. Which one do you mean, the Police in this instance or the Protesters?

    Why haven’t the people who dreamed up this been sacked?

    Stick to Policing. Not encroaching onto others territory IMO.

    yossarian
    Member

    He was quite happy to play secret squirrel and screw and lie himself into a group of activists who posed no threat to society when he had the support of fellow and senior officers, now he’s been screwed himself he’s crying, boohoo

    That’s a pretty fair assessment I’m afraid.

    Dirty tricks eh? Next you’ll be telling me the police were in bed with the tabloids too…

    Its the price we pay for being able to watch the x-factor in peace.

    khani
    Member

    Pisses me right off!! The police should be catching criminals not trying to incriminate bloody wooly hat protesters, we’ve got mi5-6 for secret squirrel bollocks,….

    MSP
    Member

    The problem isn’t necessarily with the infiltration in itself, I can understand the need for such actions with proper oversight when the objective is to prevent serious crime.

    But in this case there seems to have been little evidence of the likelihood of serious crime being committed and the police actions appear to have been political. After finding no worthwhile evidence at all, the operation tried to entice criminality.
    When you also see the police actions at the student protests (undercover officers enticing violence) and the use of kettling to raise tensions at many protests.
    It is extremely worrying that the underhand way the police are being used as a political tool, and that a supposedly independent police force is accepting this role.

    yossarian
    Member

    It is extremely worrying that the underhand way the police are being used as a political tool, and that a supposedly independent police force is accepting this role.

    The police have been taking orders directly from Whitehall for a couple of decades now, it’s just become more obvious with the advent of modern technology.

    The police are not independent any more and it’s a sad reflection on us, the citizens, that most people don’t give a shit.

    grum
    Member

    What Lifer said.

    Two undercover police officers secretly fathered children with political campaigners they had been sent to spy on and later disappeared completely from the lives of their offspring, the Guardian can reveal.

    This is horrible behaviour by anyone let alone public servants being paid by the taxpayer to do so.

    soulwood
    Member

    Is that Clown Army video for real or a spoof? Made me laugh. Don’t think I could have kept a straight face if I was “policing them”

    hels
    Member

    How does one “secretly father a child” – you would think somebody would notice, not least when they have to step over in when it falls out of the mother in the queue at Tesco.

    And, accepting that such a thing might happen – is one then obliged to name it “Jesus” ? What if it’s a girl ? Jesusetta ??

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Everything explained here Hels…

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMx6X26iJ_c[/video]

    chewkw
    Member

    Actually it’s not about the action of spying but really it’s down to waste of money …

    I mean to be spending time with environment protest groups dossing about and enjoying life without having to write bureaucratic report or meeting sales target, joining the rat race etc and still receive salary … you’re are having a laugh.

    Tell him to get a real job by doing some paper works like a good pen pusher.

    jota180
    Member

    How does one “secretly father a child”

    Sleight of cock I would think
    When the recipient isn’t looking or otherwise occupied, wham, bam – job done

    hels
    Member

    That worries me, you mean I could secretly have mothered a child sometime when I wasn’t paying enough attention ?? Will it come after me if it ever needs a new kidney or driving lessons or something ??

    yossarian
    Member

    Is that Clown Army video for real or a spoof? Made me laugh. Don’t think I could have kept a straight face if I was “policing them”

    CIRCA is/was real. Most ground level cops were happy to see them, enjoyed a bit of banter and had no problems at all. The fact they were infiltrated shows the paranoia of Whitehall and it’s reluctance to engage with any group that appears to disregard a mainstream approach.

    As with RTS, CIRCA will disappear, splinter, regroup and start another process of peaceful and unconventional protest. No doubt they’ll get infiltrated again and the process will begin again.

    Garry_Lager – Member

    Thinking seriously about it, though, a lot would depend on how isolated a case it was…………………………
    If it turns out that there is large scale infiltration of lawful organisations (ie not the al qaeda numpties, things like unions, pressure groups, political parties etc), all done in a completely opaque and unaccountable way, then that would be potentially a big story.

    I think its already known that many peaceful and legal organisation s were infiltrated and in some cases provoked.

    Hopefully the papers will keep pressing and more info will come to light.

    To be infiltrating non violent protest groups is a gross distortion of police values.

    grum
    Member

    That worries me, you mean I could secretly have mothered a child sometime when I wasn’t paying enough attention ?? Will it come after me if it ever needs a new kidney or driving lessons or something ??

    I imagine it’s really hilarious for the kids/mother in question.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 92 total)

The topic ‘This Mark Kennedy story about undercover policemen’ is closed to new replies.