The F1 Thread…

If button is that good and the rumours are true that he is leaving McLaren then why aren’t any of the other teams snapping him up ???

Simple really. Hes no better than average but thinks he deserves a top drivers salry because Ross Braun designed a superb car he had the good fortune to be driving that year. None of the top teams want him because they can get better for the money. None of the small teams want him because hes too expensive for what he can offer.

Frankly that’s silly. He’s not a FA but he’s clearly better than average.

Few of the teams want him because he’s expensive and he’s old. Given that the top teams’ seats are full that would mean one of the teams already struggling for money would have to fork out a load more cash. Hardly a great combination.

There’s more than that – he has now quite publically stated a couple of times that he only wants to drive a car which he can win races in. Hence completely ruling out a move to any of the smaller teams (I think it only rules in RBR Ferrari and Merc as possible moves, though I suppose Williams might be considered to have a car which could win at the moment). Intriguingly I don’t think that anybody has considered that 3 car teams could open up a seat for him at RBR as they already have a young relative novice driving for them next year.

The idea that he isn’t a top driver is laughable.

even drivers in the best car can still kek it all up – just look at David Coulthards career, and for that matter Damon Hill’s

Button i believe is a top driver, on his day, when he has the car to his liking he can come from the back of the field and make clear clean passing moves on the very best – the car Brawn gave him did that and suited him perfectly, but lets face it, he deserved it after the dogs of cars he given to him for years at Honda, and he still stuck it out with the team.

Is he the right material now for other top teams – not really, for some reason i can only see his “fit” is with McLaren/Honda

How long have 2 car teams been normal/compulsary?

I dont think 3 cars teams would detract from the racing really, its another car on the grid at the end of the day, although some additional thought might be required regarding points, as teams with 3 ‘good’ cars could push the smaller teams out the points.

I think they should just allow 2-4 cars per team, their choice to bring however many they want to each race. Would give the smaller teams a chance at more exposure (its not the physical cars that cost but the design/research right?). Just restrict them to a single ‘pit’ for servicing during the race and no ‘stacking’ at pit stops or it’ll block the pit.

Talking about the practical side of it – you’re quite right, he quite understandably doesn’t want to drive for a non-top team. I think the driver market has been a little unusual this year which has meant that Button’s been caught in the middle. With RB making a point of only taking on young drivers and Merc not changing (probably! 🙂 ) the whole thing of Alonso and Vettel changing teams unexpectedly (I reckon most thought it’d be for 2016) has meant the musical chairs has left JB with no seat. Basically it’s RB’s fault 🙂

How long have 2 car teams been normal/compulsary?

For as long as F1 has been F1.

The risk in F1 with reducing the number of constructors is that there’s a much bigger impact to the sport if one leaves. Given the costs and history of manufacturers having come and gone as it suits in the past, I’d say that’s a likely scenario.

Talk at present is for three, four or five constructors (Ferrari, Williams, McL, Merc, RB). The first three IMO will never leave F1 as it’s basically what they are (maybe less so Ferrari nowadays with the road car business but they get paid not to ever leave…). If Merc or RB started to fail to deliver on the track (as typically happens on a cyclical basis) or if the company had bad results or just decided to spend its marketing budget differently, there’s a fair chance that they’d pull out, that could leave only three constructors. Unless Williams can find some more money then they’d struggle to compete with the other two which may leave them not viable as a supplier.

from what the BBC & bernie were saying there are teams that have signed a document saying they WILL ALWAYS BE in F1 until at least 2020 – and as merc and ferrari are the only full works teams, it does leave the other engine manufacturers to come and go as they please (i’m looking at YOU HONDA!!!)

what i cannot fathom is why he (LH) hasnt resigned for Merc yet and states he wants to “get the title dealt with first”

Money
Merc don’t want to pay him as much next time around, using Alonso as a lever – i.e. “We can take Alonso if you don’t sign for less”

on the other side they need to keep Alonso available so they keep telling him he’ll be in silver next year if LH doesn’t re-sign.
So it all hinges on LH, unless McL give Alonso a time limit and force him to commit or otherwise.

Mr Horner you ol’ dog you

Merc don’t want to pay him as much next time around, using Alonso as a lever – i.e. “We can take Alonso if you don’t sign for less”

on the other side they need to keep Alonso available so they keep telling him he’ll be in silver next year if LH doesn’t re-sign.
So it all hinges on LH, unless McL give Alonso a time limit and force him to commit or otherwise.

Merc win no matter what. If Nico wins though they can keep LH and equalise their wage bill. I bet Alonso aint going to be cheap. Why do people assume hes offering bargain basement? Hes leaving Ferrari not because hes being forced to.

Its true!

Geri link

So presumably she’ll be moving to MK and perhaps we’ll see her up at Woburn?

I did occur to me listening to Button was that the contractual problem he has a Mclaren is not that he hasn’t been offered a seat but that he won’t accept it unless they can assure him the car will be better

Is Button average

he did win from last place didn’t he. I think we all like drivers who do better in the wet

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/jun/12/jenson-button-canadian-grand-prix

congrats Horner and Geri

least they havnt been splashing it all over the papers in and on/off/effects my driving cos i’m unprofessional LH styleeee

On a more serious note

Is Horner the next Bernie?
It was touted a while back, and RBR could be very much ready for a transition with Newey’s new role and Vettel leaving…
He certainly has the intellect and i would suggest the silver tongue, given the Webber / Vettel relationship in the past – he’s also well respected in the paddock and well known outside without being TOO well known or carrying any extra “dodgy baggage” (now dont be cruel everyone and say anything about Geri here!)
For me he’d be a better choice for sure than Falvio
and lets face it Bernie aint going to go on forever….

unless he is a cyborg…sent from the future to infiltrate F1 and bring it down from the inside
Geri:”…you mean like a robot..?”
Horner : “All right, listen. The Terminator’s an infiltration unit: part man, part machine. Underneath, it’s a hyper-alloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled. Fully armored; very tough. But outside, it’s living human tissue: flesh, skin, hair, blood – grown for the cyborgs.”

…

Bernie: “Geri Halliwell….?”
Geri: “Yes?”
Bernie: “Your terminated…..”

respect webber for those last few sentences – rubens needs to admit this to himself too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02bkv3r

Yep, i have always liked Mark Webber. His honesty and true character is extremely refreshing in a world of smoke and mirrors.

Huge respect for Mark Webber here too, he was an extremely able racer and came across very well – even when he was upset about his perceived unequal treatment at RBR.

@back2b – thanks for that link, another Webber fan here too.

Mark Webber is a top bloke I can tell you that.

I was lucky enough to work with him in F1 and he punched well above his weight all the time. He’s pretty modest about his talent, but he was in the top league for sure. Just didn’t quite get the right breaks early enough in his career. His move to Williams was the breaking point really, made perfect sense at the time, but turned out to be such a disappointment for him. Red Bull was obviously a great and largely unexpected recovery, but perhaps just a bit too late in his F1 career. Still not a bad innings though compared to most!

He’s pretty handy on a bike too – road & XC.

Mark webber

Woburn rider. Nothing else needs adding

I haven’t been following closely but Caterham may race in AD, they’ve raised £1.9m via crowd sourcing (avg amount £400) which is quite impressive. Some cool items have been sold off, should have paid attention as I’d have a pair of drivers gloves etc

link[/url]

The crowdfunding just seems wrong. If a GP2 car can be built, run and be nearly as quick as a backmarker F1 car on a (relatively) tiny budget, why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?

why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?

Engines (sorry Power Units) have played a big part this year, they are very expensive. GP2 is essentially a one make series so no one spends any money developing the car as they are all the same

anyone catch the BBC’s title deciders marathon on BBC3

jeez those 1980’s cars looked awesome!!!!!!!!!!
sigh

Confirmed that Caterham are back for the last race…

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/11/14/caterham-return-abu-dhabi/

jeez those 1980’s cars looked awesome!!!!!!!!!!

They were – qualifying engines that lasted 3 laps!

Caterham will now be racing in Abu Dhabi. Although they have got to find another driver for one race as Ericsson has packed in with them. What happens next year though? Are they expecting the receive the 10th place payout by default as Marussia doesn’t exist any more? That would be a massive help to them if it did happen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30055510

bernie’s not interested in young generation.
great forward thinking bernie
where do you think we all got our love of f1 from….

Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton…

F1 as a whole isn’t interested in kids/teenagers not just Bernie.

My daughter has picked up her interest in F1 from me, but since she was 5 or 6 getting ANY decent and reasonably priced F1 related stuff for kids is nigh on impossible. Team kit sells for crazy prices.

You’d think they’d at least cash in with a range of cars (like Disney/Hotwheels Cars). I ended up buying Scalextric cars as ‘cheap’ models for her.

Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton…

Plus random, unknown female driver…
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/11/12/powell-ready-massive-step-handed-f1-debut-caterham/

Spoilt for choice really, Frijns, Lotterer, Chilton…

You’re quite right. What I should have said is, they now have to auction the drive off to the highest bidder.

Plus random, unknown female driver…

Exactly what the sport needs IMHO…for too long, women at races have only been there to wear a swimsuit and hold a number on a stick. It’s great to see characters like Susie Wolff and Claire Williams helping to make a difference. The latter seems to be doing a top job.

dont forget monisha kaltenron at sauber.. peter sauber was confident of her abilities to run the team and gave her a stake.

The crowdfunding just seems wrong. If a GP2 car can be built, run and be nearly as quick as a backmarker F1 car on a (relatively) tiny budget, why does it cost so much for Caterham and Marussia to build a really bad F1 car!?

Part of the cost is flying all that kit and people round the world

Oh and as well as development eveything you make is a one off, or nealry

On a personal note unless you are much more of an engineer I think the term really bad is unreasonable. I expect being at the back in F1, on a budget is harder than it looks

What’s to stop CVC stepping in and removing Ecclestone if they decided he was becoming a liability?

Darth Vader?

Mr Salmon-nothing on paper as CVC employ the squinty octaganerian. But I expect he’s got a hold over each and every one of them so they’re scared to be the one that fires him.

Maybe you’re right, with some of the stuff he’s been coming out with lately it’s astonishing he’s still there.

Agreed. He usually saves this sort of stuff for quiet times when f1 wouldn’t otherwise be in the news.

Indeed – there is a huge amount of effort involved in making a car which is fast enough to qualify to race. A GP2 car might not be much slower, but it’s a quite important not much.

Running a production GP2 car is nothing like designing, developing and running your own F1 car. Leagues apart in cost and resources. A typical GP2 team might consist of around 20 people tops. F1 is 300+ people slaving away day and night.