The Electric Car Thread

But I doubt there are any newish EVs that would depreciate by less than that over the next few years, so it would still cost me to switch from my existing ICE car.

Well, perhaps yes, but there’s a lot of scope for man-maths: I buy cars on credit, which a lot of people will howl at but I consider it as a DIY lease. And because I buy used, it’s a lot cheaper than a lease deal. Your exposure is only the outstanding loan minus the resale cost and by buying more than about 3/4 years old and fortunately having decent credit I can usually keep pace for the first few years but after that I’m ahead. And of course at the end of the term the car is mine rather than having to be sent back. And I can ‘end’ any time I want by selling the car which you can’t do with a lease.

So my car has a fixed cost per month, but because my wife commutes we have a fixed fuel cost per month. This is far cheaper with the EV. I’ve calculated that the savings are about 1/3 the loan payments when driving 7k per year at today’s prices. If I were driving 20k a year, the car would have been basically free. When we first did this calculation petrol and diesel were sky high so the free-car point was about 15k a year. Now, this is based on our EV being pretty cheap (£12k) and extremely efficient (about 5 miles/kWh).

If you do enough miles then yeah you could break even on the outlay of the car, but it’s going to make more sense if you want/need to change your car anyway. Our old commuter car was crashed so it needed a replacement, so we were looking at a fairly old ICE versus a quite nice EV for the same monthly outlay. Much as I would like to change the Merc for an EV that would be much more expensive because our requirements for that role dictate an expensive EV and the car does few miles so there is not much fuel cost to offset the purchase price.

Hi EV experts.

Without mentioning a specific car (to avoid the “recommend what you own” issue) would you be able to list the top five most important things you’d look for when buying your next EV.

Thanks.

would you be able to list the top five most important things you’d look for when buying your next EV.

In no particular order, and it’s more than 5.

-range, not necessarily the highest, but range that is sufficient

-performance – I like a fast good handling car.

-charging speed, faster being better obvs

-interior – high quality, nice place to sit and I want buttons ideally.

-a car from a manufacturer that’s going to be around in the UK market in 15 years time, I keep my cars a while, I don’t lease, so need to know support will be there in the long term, so no byd et al for me at present .

-price – needs to be what I consider good value

– reliability needs to appear to be good.

Made in Europe with battery and cells made in Europe.

Not an SUV, something fairly small and light.

Range 400km+ CCS charging (pretty much universal these days)

Good local dealer with sensible pricing for servcing.

Easy to drive without having to faff with a touch screen for basis functions.

But above all point number 6: does Madame Edukator like driving it and is there a colour she likes.

EV specifics rather than more general considerations like aesthetics or practicality?

1. Charging curve. The Fastned website will show the charging curve for most EVs. The marketing blurb will trumpet about charging speed but often that’s a peak speed which isn’t maintained throughout the whole range of charging.
2. Efficiency.
3.Real world range as opposed to WLTP. A function of efficiency.
4. Decent software and a good remote app to start the climate control from bed.
5. Not particularly EV related but physical buttons or separate and dedicated controls for basic functions like climate control and volume. And a one click button to disable the Lane keeping assist.

6. A range of adjustable regenerative braking modes. Not just a B mode.
7. True 1 pedal driving.
8. A snow mode to control all that instant torque if it does get a bit slippery underfoot

to add to above, ease/compatibility for fitting bike racks on roof/towbar install

For me:

• 300 mile range since I want to tow. 250 if I didn’t.
• Fast charging
• Nice interior
• Quiet and comfy
• Good battery management tech to avoid losing much range in winter
• Heat pump
• Available with smaller wheels and bigger tyres since stupid low profile tyres really hammer range.

stupid low profile tyres really hammer range

afaik that’s only if the alloy wheel design is inefficient. A wider tyre will create more drag, but if that remains constant, less tyre/more wheel only has an aerodynamic effect

I think you’ll find you’ve already got 8, Perchy.

I already have 1 to 7 as well.
I have chosen wisely.

…but the car is better at monitoring the grip and modulating the power to maintain the traction than even my god-like Surfmatt-esque skills can.
Sometimes computermabobs are superior to people in specific tasks.

I am disappointed nobody has mentioned ‘ability to make the car make fart noises on command’ yet.

list the top five most important things you’d look for when buying your next EV.

In no particular order

1. Looks nice (important for all cars for me, TBH)
2. Spaceous, and can carry roof racks
3. Range >200miles – the odd occasion I go over this I’ll be stopping anyway!
4. Powerful and sporty to drive
5. MUST have adaptive cruise control, great to have lane following.

And hopefully, when I’m after my next EV, they’ll be self driving!

DrP

Defo lane centring (not lane keep) was on my list

Range >200miles – the odd occasion I go over this I’ll be stopping anyway!

I don’t have an EV but mildly thinking about it.  I was concerned about range [like everyone else probs] but realised that my longest regular trip is 110 miles and I rarely come back the same day.

So even with 240 mile range I could  drive down one day, then pretty easily come back the next having added a bit more charge overnight – even at 3kWh!
I don’t really need a >350 mile range.

I was explaining to MrsSb that, unlike right now, I could park the car at home with 50 miles left “in the tank” but the next morning it could be 150 miles (charger dependant).  I usually only have about 70 miles range in the car now anyway!

thats exactly the mind shift that needed. its nice to have huge range but it very rarely needed.
faster charging is much more useful especially if paired with some smart nav that’ll take you to it.
(and public charging keeps on getting better and better)

I was explaining to MrsSb that, unlike right now, I could park the car at home with 50 miles left “in the tank” but the next morning it could be 150 miles (charger dependant).  I usually only have about 70 miles range in the car now anyway!

And i think this is kinda teh mentality switch you need to adopt to EV driving…

I did a 200 mile round trip to collect the OH and her daughter from Stanstead airport last weekend… Lovely cruise up there… Parked, waited, and picked them up, and lovely cruise back (with a McD’s drive through on our laps!).
I left home with 100% (i normally only fill to 90%) got home with about 9%. Plugged in on teh drive, and was full again come the morning.
IF i was concerned, I could have added another 10-20% at the Airport in about 8 minutes via a rapid charger.

Too many people (without EV experience or mindset) think that you ALWAYS have to completely brim up the car. Which of course would take anything from an hour (at a rapid) to a day (via a 3 pin)…. But you don’t… If I thought my return journey would take me too close to empty, I’d have just added 8 min (or less) at the rapid charger next to the airport car park. really NOT an inconvenience..

And there’s no issue rolling into your drive on 0% if you have a wall charger!

DrP

I’m just working through the “how much range do I actually need” question. I’ve looked at the longer round trips and single legs that I do semi regularly where I wouldn’t want to require a stop to charge, then on bigger trips like heading from darn Sarf to the Lakes or Tweed valley where I’d prefer to only need to charge once en route rather than twice. That’s giving me a figure of about 210 miles, so a WLTP of 250ish will be fine.

I’ve found range not to be a big deal in use, but planning for the amount of juice you have left at a remote destination needs some consideration if accomodation doesn’t provide a charging option.

Another “range is not a problem”. Amersham to Porthmadog and back in a day (dropping daughter off at the mountain railway) didn’t do much planning, left at 100% with 230 miles range, stopped at Telford for a burger and top up, dropped daughter at Porthmadog, quick tea and top off at Tremadog, tea and top off at Birmingham and home. No more stops or time than my bladder required anyway,

I also commute 110 miles round trip twice a week. No issue at all, I just plug in at home the night before.

We did a 336mile trip (each way) in our 37kWh i3 recently.  We stopped once in each direction to charge from 10-95% (the i3 maintains full charge rate upto this) and trickle charged at the destination for 10h.  The charge stop extended our journey by 30mins in each direction as we’d have stopped, but probably not for as long.

It was hardly an inconvenience on a 6.5h journey and otherwise had zero impact on our trip.

It’s worth noting (as others have) that in a 250 mile car you won’t be 250 miles between stops on a long trip, more like 200.  In our 200 mile car we were about 120-140 miles between stops on our Scotland trip.  It’s about 10.5 hours of pure driving according to Google, we did it in 14hrs, but of course we’d have had plenty of stops otherwise.  Probably about 1.5hrs longer than we would have taken anyway but we only really spent about 30 mins actually waiting for charge – the rest of the time we were getting snacks/peeing etc.  The more you stop the more coffee you buy so the more you need another stop 2hrs later 🙂

Corsa e heating problem update! Broken blower motor. Having it fixed at the local Vauxhall/Peugeot dealership for peace of mind/2yr warranty. Not my normal approach to these sort of things and if it fails beyond the warranty period I’ll be resolving the problem myself. I asked if it was worth replacing the resistor at the same time to save on future labour costs and I was advised that any replacement of the resistor would be relatively easy to do. I think i’ll have to skip a few pub trips and attempt to do some overtime to offset the cost of the repair. Paying for convenience this time. Crying eyes/winky eye emoji.

Yeah, that’s cars for you 🙂 Glad it was a straightforward if time-consuming fix. Blower motors are buried behind the dash, and if it has to come out that’s best done at the dealer if you don’t want rattles down the line since they have whatever glues and clips etc are needed.  It’s doable yourself but a huge ball-ache.. I removed the entire dash on the Passat and I still wasn’t quite at the motor itself.  The biggest challenge was finding somewhere to put all the stuff I took out!

Blower motors…FFS, I am still haunted by my efforts to replace one in a Nissan note. I gave up and got a garage to do it. As Molgrips said above it is buried away and in a Note it means the whole dash has to come out! Whatever the garage are charging you it is money well spent IMO.

Glad to hear got the blower fixed.

has anyone driven/owned/looked at the EV9?

It doesn’t look like the dash has to be removed on the Corsa e. Glove box and a few other bits. My other half had managed without the blower for the past few weeks and fortunately the high pressure and mild weather had aided the situation. I need some decent wind power and negative Agile pricing to help towards the cost! Wind blowing from a face emoji!

. I need some decent wind power and negative Agile pricing to help towards the cost!

Too right…. I’ve got loads of washing and drying to do!!

😉

Blower motors…FFS, I am still haunted by my efforts to replace one in a Nissan note. I gave up and got a garage to do it. As Molgrips said above it is buried away and in a Note it means the whole dash has to come out!

I simply didn’t have the money when the HVAC system on our Panda died.  It was a complete PITA!

Well the Corsa e blower motor fix stalled on friday afternoon. The vauxhall dealership didn’t have the replacement part in their stores after taking the old one out so the car is awaiting the new part to be fitted on monday…

Idiotic hatchet-job EV article in The Times today of the motoring journalist driving from Lands End to John o’ Groats when the average UK  driving journey is 8.4 miles and complaining about the charging infra. According to zapmap Ambleside has PodPoint x 8, Fuuse x 5, GeniePoint x 3 and a couple of single chargers but this is what he wrote:

Arriving in Ambleside we have 11 per cent left. At the hotel the receptionist almost laughs when we ask about EV charging. He suggests Booths in nearby Windermere. The Zapmap app, which lists charge points, is a lifesaver and shows a local car park with power, but we find the charger is broken. Eventually, we locate a slow charger at a hotel down the road, download an app to pay and pray the owners don’t mind that we’re not guests.

Also this, to which the reaction is no **** Sherlock:

“If you’re going over the Highlands into the wind, heavily laden and it’s cold, all those things have a huge effect on your range,” he says. “Range anxiety really does exist, especially if you’re not familiar with the route.”

Ambleside is a bit rubbish for charging, the whole of the lakes are tbh.  Spending any time camping in somewhere like Wasdale requires military planning, but I do it all pretty regularly and just consider it a challenge that always has a solution.

It’s time for the Zoe to go. Miss OTS is now sharing a car with Mrs OTS and the Zoe just doesn’t have the range (70 miles without fast charging) for what she needs. The battery lease is a bit of a constraint, so I’m going to trade it in.
I’m looking at used small ish EV’s in the 10-12k range for a 20 plate or newer.
Options seem to be another Zoe, some horrific MG thing or a Hyndai Ioniq (original version).
I’m swaying towards the Hyundai, but:
1. What else am I missing; and
2. Any thoughts on either the Zoe @Edukator or Hyundai @Molgrips

@Molgrips, I’d be particularly keen to hear about spec options to consider – am I right in thinking that a heat pump was an option?

TIA

edit – looks like a kia soul and e-golf might also be in the mix. And yes I know smallish is relative.

No Konas, Niros, big battery Leafs?

What else am I missing

We have a VW e-Up, like it. Nominal 160 mile range, I think we got 200 out of it on a warm summer day and 40-60mph A&B roads, more like 120miles at 70mph on motorways in winter. Ours is 2021, older than about 2020 have a smaller battery. I think there are also Seat and Skoda versions but they weren’t selling them in 2021 (I assume they had been selling at loss so stopped when they met their quota for the brand)

What else am I missing

From a quick Autotrader search – loads. But most notable I’d say the E208 and Corsa-e. e-golf has a particularly tiddly battery.

I3 non S, non sport, post 2019 can be had for less than £12k and will do up to 200miles in the summer and 160+ in the winter on a 37kWh usable battery pack.

@oldtennisshoes

Don’t get a Leaf.

The Ioniq is outstanding VFM.  I think that all UK 38kWh models came with them, but you can easily check if you can see under the bonnet, it’s a load of metal pipes and valves etc very visible on the left hand side.  There are only two versions – Premium and Premium SE.  The latter gets you leather, ventilated seats (which are awesome), blind spot warnings, lane follow assist, parking beepers, heated rear seats, memory front seats, proper heated/cooled battery, satnav with live charger routing (that’s very good) in fact it’s an incredibly well specced car for the money. I love mine.  You might pay more for a Kona but I think they’re a bit more refined.  Only downside of the Ioniq is slow charging speed when on a long trip, but I put up with that for the few times I do it.

 when the average UK  driving journey is 8.4 miles and complaining about the charging infra

The average journey has nothing to do with it. You want your car to be able to deal with the exceptional journeys as well.

Thaks @Molgrips

That’s the info I wanted on the Ioniq. I did have a quick look at the Kona and I need to investigate more.
The local Renault garage also does Hyundai, so should manage to get something sorted.
I’ll report back.

Other downside for the Ioniq is the special coolant service at 4 years/40k.  Only dealers can do it and it needs special coolant.  It’s £500-odd quid which is shocking when your other services are £70/£140.  However at those prices you are still only averaging £200/year which is pretty cheap for a main dealer; it just seems expensive when your last one was £70!  It has to be done to keep the battery warranty, and for good reason – there were issues with coolant crystallising in the channels that cool the battery, so they recalled them to fit special low-crystallisation coolant and changed the service schedule.