Unfortunately I don’t have a super sailing yacht to do this on.

I need to get to London from central Scotland. Last week of October and again first week of December.

Fights on both dates to London City are £70 return, overall travel time under 4hrs, convenient times.

Trains for both dates are already £166 as fixed seat, each way and 7 hours, or £332 to be anytime return.

I know I can work on the train, but even so… I visit this issue every year, and each year it frustrates me.

Just fly or pay the money. The world won’t alter whatever you do. Are you really bothered by flying or just parading your pretend guilt as some sort of green credential ?

Found cheaper than that ( but not a lot) picking two random weekdays at the end of oct. Cheapest is two singles coming to 110. Return is 147. Trainline.com

5 .5 hours from dunblane ( is that where yo are?)

Advance tickets for dec are not available yet

The plane will be going whether you’re on it or not.
We can try and be as green as possible but, sometimes, it just isn’t the practical/cost effective thing to do.

Bus.

I know I can work on the train, but even so… I visit this issue every year, and each year it frustrates me.

Book train well in advance then, makes a huge difference to the cost.

The plane will be going whether you’re on it or not.

In the short term, but in the longer term?

The plane will be going whether you’re on it or not.

The plane is going because people choose to fly on it. Only one way to change that…

We live in an oil based economy. £70 is £70 worth of oil. £332 is £332 worth of oil. The green option is £70.

You need to add all the other factors too. For me flying adds driving and parking at this end, or an extra 45 mins to get the bus. At the other end its often a walk from the station rather than tube/bus/taxi. Also you can get on and off the train much quicker than a plane so don’t need to arrive quite so early or add extra ‘just in case’ time. Plane is still quicker and cheaper but it does close the gap a little

Trains for both dates are already £166 as fixed seat, each way and 7 hours, or £332 to be anytime return.

Depending on what you are doing the flexibility of the Anytime ticket makes a lot of sense. To get the same flexibility from a flight would cost a lot more. I much prefer the train to flying and by the time you add in transfers and security, it’s frequently quicker within the UK.

Looking at the Virgin trains page, last week in October is £47 down for the 4hr 30min train (slower options available for cheaper), Glasgow central to euston. £83 one way if you want First class. Similar prices for return.

Depends on what actually frustrates you. The cost or the environmental impact or the time wasted.

Personally I would drive. I have a nice car and like driving. Hate wasting time at airports, hate trains, hate croweded places. The environment is not going to notice my individual actions. For any impact on that, you need to gather some greater momentum to have a lasting positive impact.

In your case Id save the money and take the cheap option. If the impact bothers you, spend the money saved on planting trees. Some people find that sort of guilt removal helpfull 🙂

The environment is not going to notice my individual actions

One thing guaranteed is that if everyone thinks that way, nothing will change.

Book ahead and yo can get two singles dunblane to london for £38 each

Personally I would drive. I have a nice car and like driving.

A long drive finishing in London sounds like the shittest option going

Train sounds very expensive Matt.  We used train Edinburgh-London last week for the first time rather than flying. Much preferred it. Booked 12 weeks in advance. £70ea for fixed train/seat (£22 outbound; £48 homeward; friends and family railcard as kids travelled with us, so £170 all-in for family of 4). Overall travel time, Polmont to central London: train 5.5hrs vs flying approx. 4.5-5hrs?

Regardless of cost, I found the overall train journey much less stressful. Hate waiting, hate airports, hate the stupidity of other folk. More comfortable too being 6’1 and long legged. In comparison the train was a much more pleasant way to travel. I’m telling myself it’s the greener option and really hope it is.

“The environment is not going to notice my individual actions”, said billions of people.

Book ahead and yo can get two singles dunblane to london for £38 each

on two random week days in october – rather than the 2 days he actually needs/wants to travel.

i assume hes not going on holiday and has appointments to meet.

“The environment is not going to notice my individual actions”, said billions of people.

I know. Where’s the facepalm emoji when you want it?

I’m telling myself it’s (the train) the greener option and really hope it is.

It must be, surely.

In comparison the train was a much more pleasant way to travel. I’m telling myself it’s the greener option and really hope it is.

It is, by far. Firstly, it takes far less energy to propel a train along rails than it does to keep a plane in the air. Secondly, the east coast line is electrified, so it utilises the national grid, which is over 30% renewable (and c.50% low carbon if you include nuclear). In contrast, jet fuel is 100% oil-based.

We had this in the opposite direction, looking to travel from Cheltenham to Edinburgh in October. In the end opted for the train, which is probably similar journey-time wise by the time you factor in getting to and checking in at Brum or Brizzle airports, but it’s cost us about £100 more.

We used one of the split-ticketing sites to bring the cost down, it’s worth looking at if you haven’t done so already. Without that it was going to be horrendously expensive to take the train.

Why are flights so cheap and trains so expensive?

“The environment is not going to notice my individual actions”, said billions of people.

Exactly.

Cycle

Trail rat – the £38 quid singles are available on most if not all days – need to book ahead and they have limited availablity which is why in oct I could only find one for the return in the last week of oct. Still last week in oct can be done for 147 return or 110 two singles

It is, by far.

It’s a shame this isn’t passed on to the consumer.

We’re even further from London. Real pain to travel to (not that I wish to very often).
The Caledonian Sleeper is looking like a good alternative except it seems beset with problems and disputes.

It’s a shame this isn’t passed on to the consumer.

But are getting the environment cost confused with the actual cost. The environmental option will not always be the cheapest. Doesn’t mean its not the right choice.

Some more answers

– I’m fixed on meeting dates (Trustees meetings), they’re in the City.
– the 7 hours train is the door to door, and I’m 5 mins walk from Dunblane station.
– the flight time is door to door, actual flight is just over 1hr.
– I’m trying to book ahead – it is August and I’m trying to book in December! Even the October week is 10 weeks off.

It’s not greenwash – I work for a national environmental education charity who has the UN Global Goals at our heart.

I know the true cost of a flight is beyond the financial transaction.

I think my overall point is that flights have clearly evolved into a time efficent system that is reflected in low fare cost as well.
Rail still seems time and cost inefficient in many ways.
And the loser is the environment if I choose to fly (again).

The plane is going because people choose to fly on it. Only one way to change that…

And that won’t happen whilst flying is considerably cheaper and more convenient. Ridiculous situation; sums up the massive clusterfudge of fail that is our public transport infrastructure in the UK.

How would you get to the airport your end? Would there be driving/parking/taxi?

Train could let you take a bike, which is then great for getting around London

I agree though, I wish the train was cheaper. I live in London and generally choose to drive for rare weekends away as the train is so expensive and too much faff. Although I’ve used the train for my last two weekends in the lakes

Reminds me of an article in the Guardian a few weeks ago where a bloke explained how he had to get to Beijing also on behalf of an eco friendly company. ” It took 4 months of planning to set up, the journey took 14 days, but I had to prove that there are practical alternatives to flying” Er…

& I don’t want to have a go at the OP, but fundamentally, if your company is really serious in its environmental concerns, you should just use Skype.

Environmental costs aside, as it seems obvious, unless the plane is full and the train empty – where’s the cut off?

How can a plane with 2 pilots, 2 cabin crew (minimum, depending on plane), plus someone to put your bags on for you, come out cheaper than a driver and guard plus a snack trolley, if you are lucky.

Add on the maintenance/inspection of planes which must far exceed that of a train.

Planes – no tax on fuel is one thing.

I work for a national environmental education charity who has the UN Global Goals at our heart.

Why are you even allowed to fly?

ECML is a pleasant journey particularly from Edinburgh to York – I always get a seat and usually get a table with only one other passenger so a great place to work/chill. Just be sure to sit on the coast side unless you don’t want laptop glare if you’re working in the morning. Super-off Peak tickets on LNER website are pretty cheap and offer some flexibility if you can choose those. LNER website has alerts too where it will notify you when advanced purchase (cheap inflexible) tickets become available. I think they’re currently available until end-October.

@5thElefant

We live in an oil based economy. £70 is £70 worth of oil. £332 is £332 worth of oil. The green option is £70.

You’re gonna need to draw me a pic for this. Pretty sure it’s slightly more complex and less conspiratorial than that.

I would fly.
As I have chosen not to procreate which is the most damaging thing anyone can do to the environment in my opinion, by breeding more consumers, I would feel fully justified in this decision.

Middle class guilt to the rescue once again, phew, planet saved! 😆

National Express…

Personally I would drive. I have a nice car and like driving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft

I;m no plane expert but I’m looking at the “regional flight” section.

Not simple as take off uses lots of fuel, but longer trips they carry more fuel which is a considerable weight.

IF every seat is full, its 60 to 100 mpg (and thats stupid US mpg, so add 10%)

What does your car get?

& I don’t want to have a go at the OP, but fundamentally, if your company is really serious in its environmental concerns, you should just use Skype

Which I have for the past 6 years in my job. I’ve been asked in my new role to actually meet the board, and they will introduce me to some good contacts.

Why are you even allowed to fly

I agree.

That said, my next travel is back to China….

but fundamentally, if your company is really serious in its environmental concerns, you should just use Skype.

This.

Huge  swathes of the country’s traffic problems could be wiped out if  video conferencing technology was only slightly less shit and employers were just slightly more trusting.

Elon Musk and his ilk should stop pissing about with electric cars and get busy with the full sized hologram technology to keep us off the roads unless it’s actually necessary.