Meanwhile, the West Coast main line between Glasgow and London is to be run by a partnership between First (who walked away from running the East Coast main line a few years ago) and Trenitalia (the Italian state railway). Assuming they both are in this to make a profit, doesn’t it give you a nice warm feeling to know that one of the reasons trains are so expensive is that you’re funding the (already quite excellent) Italian train service?

In the case of train companies the stuff that doesn’t go on fuel is spent on track maintenance etc and other overheads most of which are fixed. And the true cost is between the two numbers, peak fares subsidise off-peak.

Which mostly ends up in wages. Which is then spent on carbon.

Give somebody more money for the same fuel and that extra money will be spent on stuff. That stuff has a carbon cost associated with it.

….whereas if the consumer keeps the money for themselves, it won’t be spent on stuff?

….whereas if the consumer keeps the money for themselves, it won’t be spent on stuff?

Exactly. Money is just potential energy. If you spend it you release carbon. Doesn’t really matter what you spend it on.

Get the plane and bury the change in the garden.

Get the plane and spend the change in the garden centre, on some trees.

FTFY. Carbon offsetting  innit.

Maybe if we want an environmental debate we start a new thread.
Back to the OP.
Matt, I was told the cheap tickets are released 11 weeks before departure so put that in your diary. Also, don’t be afraid of leaving it late, I picked up some tickets to London for a dirt cheap price 4 days before departure,

Why won’t it be spent on stuff? Why is a railway worker more likely to spend their cash on carbon intensive stuff than, say, Trimix with his 14mpg Porsche up there?

so did you get a yacht yet ?

am i being thick or is the point of that use of alternative transport to flying just stupidly pointing out the absurdity of trying to not fly.

I mean all it does is confirm that the idea of sailing across the atlantic instead of flying is a stupid idea.

She should have skyped – that would have been saving the enviroment and showing a viable alternative.

oh wait….thats what you all said except teej who said she should get the train but booked weeks in advance before she knew when she needed to be there.

Exactly. Money is just potential energy. If you spend it you release carbon. Doesn’t really matter what you spend it on.

Yes it does. Some stuff is more carbon intensive than others.

Pfft. If I need to get to London it’s £330 on the train open return, including parking near station.

I can drive there and back for £40 and takes around 45mins longer. And I don’t have to sit 3″ next to a coughing stranger 🙂

Why we don’t plough money into reversing Beeching and improving the rolling stock so they are actually an attractive option for transportation is….no, actually I do know. Politics and economics.

Carbon offsetting innit

Anyone remember cheatneutral.co.uk?

For when your affair needed some offsetting, a local nunnery supplied suitable reduction in the impact…

Having just read the first reply to this thread are some sad sacks just sitting there waiting for new topics to pop up so they can just post some snide shitty remark? Seems to happen with extreme regularity, some folk are just a bit sad I suppose.

Why we don’t plough money into reversing Beeching and improving the rolling stock so they are actually an attractive option for transportation is….no, actually I do know. Politics and economics.

Because to put back what Beeching took out would be hundreds of billions of pounds given that most of the network was ripped to pieces, built upon, blocked up (tunnels etc), torn down (bridges etc).

Rolling stock is the responsibility of the train operating company and that’s written into their franchise so ultimately it’s a Government problem. The other downside is that you can get all sorts of whizz-bang rolling stock but a lot of it can’t run (or at least not to it’s full potential) on the outdated track and signalling that we’ve been left with after decades of underinvestment. Again, Government fault.

 just sitting there waiting for new topics to pop up so they can just post some snide shitty remark? 

Nope genuine sentiment, given the information I had at the time I felt the Op needed to get over himself. As the thread moved on and I became aware of the Op’s job, his concerns became a bit clearer and somewhat more justified.
But remember making shitty remarks about percieved shitty remarks is a shitty thing to do aswell 😉

Have you tried fare splitting? It often brings the cost down a lot on long journeys. Also have you checked megatrain?

given that most of the network was ripped to pieces, built upon, blocked up (tunnels etc), torn down (bridges etc).

Most of Merthyr to Brecon is still there though. That would be so awesome.

Ask yourself, WWETD.

Emma Thompson, not the liitle space creature.

According to STW logic you should make the journey by bike whilst self flagellating due to your very existence being a contributor to climate change.

I wonder how many of the more sanctimonious sorts on here actually practice what they preach?

JP

When I say “reverse Beeching”, I know it would cost billions and there are complications.

But imagine the environmental and financial benefits of a fast and comfortable mass transportation method for the public within walking distance of their home. Trains are that answer.

It’s obvious why it should happen but, ultimately, obvious why it won’t. The cost to many industries and tax revenue would be huge, and no government would commit to such a long term goal anyhow  – because of the way the public think and vote.

We’re truly hopeless, pissing about having outcries about plastic straws and carrier bags instead.

In Scotland there has been a steady if slow reopening of trainlines closed by beeching. the bathgate line, Perth to alloa, borders railway all now open and the next on the line is the leven branch

I do find it odd how many on here claim absurd prices for train travel when actually its often much cheaper than they claim

But yes – rain pricing is stupid, weird and confusing. But cheaper fares are often available.

What is need is to transfer some of the massive subsidy from road to rail and to nationalise the railways.

fast and comfortable mass transportation method for the public within walking distance of their home. Trains are that answer.

Small, driverless electric cars might be the answer to this in ~10 years time

Seriously guys.

We are screwed, this thread just reinforces why.

We don’t get to hit the mighty reset button and live in harmony with the world.

The Earth and nature will do that. It will restore balance, not upcycled apes.

Hugely deluded to think we are the cure or can cure our very selves.

Though….

Some would argue that our inability to curtail ourselves even when fully aware it will likely eradicate us means we are the cure.

Just not in the way we would like to be.😁

Anyway, think long term guys. The Earth has a few billion years till the Sun goes nova. Sentient Being MK II might do better. Don’t be so short termist.

Christ, reading that back I know I sound fatalistic but I honestly think it to be largely true.

Individually or in smaller groups I think humankind is incredible. Some of the threads on stw reinforce that actually.

However, on a mass scale? We are pretty crap at most things.

It would be great to be wrong though,I have a son, my prediction doesn’t full me with glee. Importantly I don’t fill him with these negative views. He can decide or dispose of such assumptions for himself.

Poopscoop, it is depressing. I agree with you, we are screwed.

To cheer myself up this weekend I plan to drive (at 14mpg) to the trail center and ride about on one of my several carbon bikes.

I think you’re right poopscoop.

But there is some pretty clear things I coukd do, and as an organisation my employer can do.
You’ll be pleased to know I’ve booked the train, post midnight return to home and increased financial cost.

Now to cycle commute more than I do as well…

I do find it odd how many on here claim absurd prices for train travel when actually its often much cheaper than they claim

Says the man who has never had to use a train for commuting.

I lived in Kent and worked in London. The only option was the train. It was and now even more so, eye watering expensive and pretty shit as well.

Not sure I’ve missed this bit but who’s paying for the ticket? If it’s your company then tell them you are going by train. If they say it’s to expensive then they are frankly hypocrites that don’t deserve to have anything to do with an environmental organisation.

I do find it odd how many on here claim absurd prices for train travel when actually its often much cheaper than they claim

Due to the operators ability to ramp peak time prices right up, and drop off peaks, some people don’t find it very cheap at all. It’s not like you can choose what time to travel in order to start work at 9am.

Yes, average return tickets are about par for Europe, apparently. Single tickets are useless though.

By the time you have two people in a car, they’re paying far less than the average train return ticket and at any sort of busy or expensive times, they’re massively quids in.

Beeching was a disaster. Way too late to do anything that is value for money about it now. All the investment went on the road network. Running a decent bus network would be a start.

When I say “reverse Beeching”, I know it would cost billions and there are complications.

Actually a lot of the old lines are now walking and cycling routes so in some respects, low/zero carbon transport actually did reasonably well out of Beeching. Although there was and remains a huge amount of lost opportunity to properly capitalise on that.

There’s a push at the moment to reinstate the railway along what is now the Monsal Trail (Bakewell, Peak District) which naturally has met with extreme resistance given that MT is now such a good walking and cycling trail.

When I say “reverse Beeching”, I know it would cost billions and there are complications.

It’s not just a matter of “reversing Beeching”. Our rail network is a Victorian legacy. The Economy boomed when it was being built and hundreds of operators were building lines where ever they could. There wasn’t tight government controls and a national strategy for the network.

If you compare it to Europe, Germany and France in particular, their rail network was built to allow them to mobilise their huge armies as quickly and efficiently as possible. We never had requirement. Then if you factor in that the European rail network was basically destroyed in the 1940’s and rebuilt in 50’s and 60’s, then they are miles ahead of us. With our tight curves and low bridges, we can’t use the same trains as they do. Nearly every train I have taken in Holland has been a double decker, that’s never going to happen in the UK.

I wonder how many of the more sanctimonious sorts on here actually practice what they preach?

Took a Flixbus to go on holiday this year. A fraction of the CO2 of a plane.
Went shopping on the bike yesterday (I’m not sure if walking or cycling produces the most CO2)
Energy positive properly insulated house
No fossil fuel use
Electric car (which took a lot of energy to produce I know)
Solar water heater
PV
fleischarme ernährung but not vegetarian
avoid buying tat that will soon be landfill
recycle, re-use, maintain, sell second-hand in servicable condition
one kid

I enjoy life too, nice sunny swim in the local open-air pool already this morning, seen what’s happening in the media and on STW, time to have a jangle on the guitar I think… .

And you JJP?

Ridiculous situation; sums up the massive clusterfudge of fail that is our public transport infrastructure in the UK.

This is very true. We live in Chippenham, which is very conveniently placed on a whole network of major trunk routes, plus the M4 is three miles north, and the GWR London-Bristol railway goes right through, and last year I looked into the easiest way for my g/f to get to Aberystwyth to stay with her bestie who she hadn’t seen for years. It’s 145 miles by road, but roughly three and a half hours to drive each way, so a seven hour drive for me to taker here, drive back home, and repeat a week later. A not ideal situation as far as I’m concerned, although I do enjoy driving; I’ve done nearly 200 miles today, for example, as acting taxi for my g/f’s sister from Salisbury to Heathrow.
So I looked into public transport. Oh deary me. No coaches that I could find, only to Cardiff, with no obvious onward connection to Aberystwyth.
I then tried the trains. Despite the best attempts by the lovely ladies who do travel bookings at the town hall, the best that could be found was Chippenham to Birmingham, via Bristol, then a long wait for a train down to Aberystwyth. Total travel time, nine sodding hours! I don’t want to think about the cost. Her sister can get home to New York in five hours, for Chrissakes!
Anyway, she’s managed to organise a get together in Cardiff as her friend is on a course there for a couple of days, so she can take Jo back to Aberystwyth, and do the return a week later, using the train for the beginning and end bits.
But she shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to travel across country, with travel times that would almost get her to Los Angeles, halfway around the bloody globe!
I can breathe now.

Hitchhike , have yourself an adventure while saving the planet .

Personally I would drive OP, but given the options you describe I would fly. I use trains little, but I have always had a sense when on them that travelling by train in this country feels overpriced. Booking systems are awful, trains are packed, you might manage cheaper than flying if you book a decade in advance and at stupid times. Seats are often reserved for bits of journeys and cancellations happen at a whim.

You are looking at 2 return trips to London between now and Xmas. Dont let posters that probably have a skiing
Holiday in Val d’isere in Feb, a summer golfing trip to Florida and an autumn European city break dissuade you from flying.

Took a Flixbus to go on holiday this year. A fraction of the CO2 of a plane.

I dont want to p*ss on your toasted tofu brioche edukator, but I think the OP is travelling from Dunblane. What is the Flixbus timetable from Dunblane to central London?

I know that the empthasis on the global warming is now on individuals. Surely it should be on industry and also other (maybe developing) countries.

the transport infrastructure in the uk has suffered from decades of under investment which we’re only just starting to put right but will take decades to play catch up, and it has suffered from too many decisions scuppered by weak politicians who have not made the right decisions based upon science and engineering in terms of new roads, rail and airports because they didn’t want to be unpopular with those environmentalists so kicked the can down the road resulting in far more harm to the environment, lives lost due to poor air quality, billions lost to the economy and wealth of the nation, billions that could have been spent on the health service, and misery for millions of people every day who are just trying to get around living their own lives.

Politicians should be taken out of the decision loop on these things and experts put in charge with the politicians left to simply enable things to happen as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What is the Flixbus timetable from Dunblane to central London?

The bus from Dunblane to London is about £60. A browse of Internet sites came up with train tickets cheaper than that for the period the OP is travelling.

The bus from Dunblane to London is about £60. A browse of Internet sites came up with train tickets cheaper than that for the period the OP is travelling.

i can’t see how the bus is a viable option to travel there and back the same day.

Are those cheaper tickets at useful times?

But she shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to travel across country, with travel times that would almost get her to Los Angeles, halfway around the bloody globe!

Ummm.. so it’s a long journey to a rural out-of-the-way town, yes we get it but comparing the time to flying at 500mph is a bit stupid. If you compare the time it takes to get anywhere with flying you’re going to be disappointed most of the time.