The art of (bike) packing?

I’m a bike packing noob and I’ve collected together some bits and bobs but finding the actual packing part a faff-fest, if not impossible. So I need some help from the experienced….

The frame bag is 6 litres and I can just about squeeze a “synthetic down” blanket in.

The saddle bag is, supposedly, 14 litres and Ive squeezed in a hammock under quilt (again, synthetic down).

The bar bag is 7-14 litres capacity depending on how tight it’s rolled up. Ive got my hammock* plus a synthetic down jacket and merino long johns.

Ive got a choice of this hardtail which the frames bag just about fit OR a Diverge which has a much larger space to fit in the larger frame bag BUT this would be offset by smaller capacity bar bag (I have to roll out the bar bag quite small to fit between the brifters on the Diverge).

Based on what I’ve got so far, I’ve no chance of carrying water, food, cooking gear or tools/spares/first aid and other small bits and bobs.

So, I’ve got a theoretical 38 litre capacity on the hardtail. Is this enough?? Or do I have to spend a lot more money on “proper down” which packs down smaller?

Ive also seen some setups involving a “cradle” for mounting the bar bag. I’m not sure whether I could use something like that to stop the bar bag drooping plus it may allow the bar bag to sit lower and clear the brifters on the Diverge. Anyone use one?

* A hammock works better for the areas I intend to ride as there’s lots of trees and not much flat/clean ground without obstacles

I tend to go for a down sleeping bag in the seat bag along with a synthetic down jacket for boosting the bags warmth or just wearing off the bike before going to sleep. Frame bag takes a bivvy bag, thermarest and small stove pot with stove and gas. Bar bag then takes snacks, tools, waterproof and phone. I have cage mounts on my forks though which I put the bottle cages on.

I think my set up is:

Dry bag on rack 30 litres
Handle bar bag 5 litres
Frame bag 5 litres or 10 litres rucsac
2 bottles in cages

So 40-45 litres

I can do an over night with some food and a stove. But in reality i think I’ve eaten out in the evenings

I have a small down bag which really helps. My mat and tent aren’t quite as posh. My friend with a bulky sleeping bag looks noticeably more heavily loaded. I have a synthetic jacket that packs quite small

Couple of bottle shapes bags behind the handle bars and a top tube bag should see you right. Maybe a rucksack for lighter stuff.

Cheap way to stop bar bag drooping- bungee cords. Expensive way voile straps. I have a wee rack that my bar bag fits on, at £60 I’d try straps the first time+ copter tape to stop rubbing

@tall_martin do you find the bar bag interferes with the shifter levers when changing gear on the Transition?

On my Diverge, I had to severely restrict the capacity of the bar bag (double ended dry bag) to (a) fit between the bar and (b) be able to change gear….and my bars are actually quite wide (46cm from memory)

If you look closely in my last photo in the OP, I’ve circled some stiff foam pads which appear to be designed to push the bag away from the bars (to clear cables/hoses?) but just increase leverage of the weight. It has velcro straps as well as webbing straps to hold it in place but they both seem ineffective. I don’t think bungee or volie straps would help. I may have to rig up something like stiff foam to wedge between the back of the bag and the head tube.

All of this seems to increase the faff factor 🤔

If it’s your first time out and you’re not riding too far, maybe carry a backpack to give yourself a bit more space? You could put the synthetic blanket in there, it won’t weigh much. Then all your “hardware”, stove, cook kit, etc can go in the frame bag. As a general rule you want heavier objects as central and low down as possible. A camelback can also go in there, or use some electrical tape to strap a bottle cage under the downtube. As above, a couple of stem bags are handy for carrying small objects, water bottles.

Do stem bags effect the bike manoeuvrability? It seems they could restrict the turning circle….

Not really, unless you have hard objects in there and also use a top tube bag. Even then you just can turn the bars 90°, which is probably not something you’ll do when riding.

(Makes mental note not to ride tight switchbacks when bike-packing…) 🫣

I have a strict organisation so I know where everything is.
Alpkit Big Papa saddle bag on exo rail: sleep system – down bag, pad, pillow, merino top, bottoms, socks, synthetic jacket at the end. All in bin liner because bag isn’t waterproof in a deluge, no stitched bag is. Crocs voile strapped to outside. Shouldn’t need any of that stuff till camp. Exo rail holds it completely still and means it goes on and off quickly and easily with no faff. Faff is your enemy when you’re packing and unpacking every day. Simple things like making sure everything fits in easily without forcing it makes bikepacking so much better.
Ortlieb gravel packs mounted high and back on quick rack so they don’t get in the way during hike a bikes. Banging your legs against panniers gets old real fast as does having to hold your bike out far from your body because you’ve got overstuffed bags on the back. One carries all my clothes and two bags, one full of electronics, cables, plugs, batteries and camera accessories, the other all my ablution stuff, toilet roll, first aid kit, pills etc. Half a super thin foam mat strapped to top of that on the outside. The other is for food with enough space for up to 3 days breakfast lunch and dinner.  Both have an inner tube laid at the bottom and are welded so waterproof.
Frame bag has two sections, top part is tripod, head, bracket, spare spokes, zip ties, trowel, tent poles and pegs. Bottom part is bike maintenance, tools, lube and a couple of tubes.
Rear cross bar bag is lotions I need during the day, so sun block, lip salve, hand sanitizer, insect repellent.
Front cross bar bag is battery connected to usb converter from dynamo, pocket knife, plastic bag for shopping and phone if raining.
Twin cylindrical feed bags either side of stem, one with snacks, the other with fruit and veg.
Handlebar bag is a Carradice Odyssey XL on a Carradice bag support so it just slides and off easily. This bag is excellent value for money compared to other brands. Has a shoulder strap folded away on it and is the only bag that comes off the bike for shopping etc. It mostly contains my camera kit, but also all my valuables and passport. Lined with bin liner for waterproofing. Left pocket waterproof jacket, right pocket bike lock, gloves and glasses.
Front fork bags are lomo 6l? dry bags, one with my tent, the other with all my cooking kit, oil and water filter.

Water bottle cages also on each fork and under down tube.
No rucksack or anything in pockets.

This is a continuous travel set up for off grid, lots of bits aren’t needed for less than a few days and no one needs all that stupid heavy camera shit. I’d just use my phone.

My setup looks a lot like the OP’s, and just come back from a 3-day camping trip doing Fort William to the Forth Bridges off-road.

As the OP is discovering bulk is the enemy of the bike/back packer, not weight – so down not synthetic…

For me;

• Bar-bag – tent, blow-up sleeping mat, dry bag of everything not elsewhere
• Seat-pack – all my dry stuff; so down sleeping bag & clothes with a down jacket at the end for easy access
• Frame-bag – tools & bike stuff, poles/pegs, stove/pot/stand, day food, battery pack & cables plus space for food buying
• Small top-tube bag – just grab snacks like a bag of Haribo and some bars

I also strap on a large waterbottle under the down tube, mostly empty but used at camp and wear my enduro waist pack with phone and 1.5l ‘juice’.  If I’m on my gravel bike I don’t use the waist pack but have two bottles instead (bigger frame and a 1/2 frame bag).

While I carry a couple of dry-food sachets, they’re only for an emergency – I use cafe’s, shops on the route and plan to buy/carry (short periods) consequently my frame bag has space to add extras plus a net on the rear.

OP also get one of these, will save you seatpack from the back tyre.

Valais 25

I wouldn’t be using a seat pack on a dropper post.

Not with any sort of weight in.

They’re not designed for it and I saw it destroy a Reverb on a mates bike.

Re:the Valais … I looked at one of those but discounted it because it looks like you have to disassemble the dropper to fit (unless the material is so flexible it just snaps into place?)

Anyway, I got a Topeak bracket which attaches to the saddle rails which allows me to strap the saddle bag on without scoring the dropper. I’m not sure either would prevent the tyre rubbing the underside of the bag though….

Slight thread hijack: @Supernova – How do you like the Odyssey XL? I normally run a Super C on my Longitude, but like the option of the roll top and longflap for extra storage on the newer Carradice bags. Also the side pockets look smaller, do you still find them usable/secure?

I wouldn’t be using a seat pack on a dropper post.

Understood. I’m just trying this for now and doing a small number of test runs. I hate faff, so it seems like some sort of rear rack would be better long term for me…

I’m a big fan of rear racks, much more stable and versatile in terms of what you can carry. If you have rack mounts on your bike (can’t quite tell from the photo) then the Ortlieb quick rack that Supernova is using would be ideal, very easy to remove when necessary. Will also allow you to use your dropper post!

@steezysix – it’s very good. Seems waterproof, though I don’t trust any non-welded bag. Can’t comment on relative pocket size because I’ve never used any other Carradice bag. I really like the universal bar rack handlebar frame – it’s very light, neat and compact compared to a traditional front rack. All half the price of trendier stuff!

Thanks! I love the look of the brown limited edition Ranger bags they’ve started doing, think I will pull the trigger. Definitely don’t need any more bikepacking bags though… 😂

OP can you use compression bags for the sleeping bag and under quilt? As a rule I’d put lighter bulkier things on the bars and seatpack and the heavier denser stuff in the frame bag. After that it’s just a case of TLS and minimising what’s needed.

Volume needed is really about how much you spend on down kit and your TLS level. I have under 20l total that carries everything inc a tarp tent – a rolled-down 8l drybag in a saddle harness, 5l drybag on the bars and a 3l Ortlieb roll bag for bits n pieces on the bar, a partial frame bag (2l) and a small gas tank for snacks. Might go to an 8l bag on the bars if carrying more clothing.

Mica Rack Review: The End of the Seat Pack?

The rear rack we could all probably use

The Mico Rack is a great idea, but an absolutely ridiculous price, like most dedicated bikeacking stuff.

Understood. I’m just trying this for now and doing a small number of test runs. I hate faff, so it seems like some sort of rear rack would be better long term for me…

Saying that I had the same set up as my mate – same pack and same dropper but mine survived the trip. But I wouldn’t do it again its asking for trouble. I’d defo go for some sort of rack as posted above or a Topeak one maybe

an absolutely ridiculous price,

yeah the price is optimistic, will be that way until more brands make what is a fairly obvious solution imo (though look at how many tailfins are in use, that’s a well thought out but quite expensive way to do it)

Re: the Mica rack, I’m very wary of putting anything heavier than a win wing on my carbon seat stays. I have got a small OMM rack (forget the name) that can be used with an axle project through axle which does a similar job, or there’s the Uber pricey tailfin option…

To the OP – feels like a lot of your kit could compress more?

For comparison, on a recent event where I was going for speed not comfort:

I had my sleep kit (bivvy/quilt/pad/pillow) in a 7 litre bar bag, and my down jacket/spare/sleeping clothes in a 7 litre saddle bag.
First aid/poo shovel/power bank/chargers etc go in frame bag.
Top tube bag has all the widgets I need “on-bike”
I use two feed bags, one has jacket and arm warmers/lf gloves. The other is empty for just putting food/bits and bobs in.

If I’m planning on actual camping, a tent and comfier sleep kit gets spread between the bar bag and two fork bags. Maybe a bigger seat pack or a dry bag on a rack for more clothes and food capacity.

Edit: photo…

TLS.

That’s a 3 day set up, tent in the bag on the frame. Sleeping bag, mat and pillow in one side of the bar roll. Down gilet, spare shorts, socks and top on the other. Stove, main food, hygiene, head torch (and at that point a jacket) in the saddle pack. TT bag has snacks and other immediate access items.

Down is good as it cuts bulk (main benefit) and weight (less important) in a sleeping bag that makes quite a lot of difference. My alpkit down bag is about half to a third of the size of my old racing synthetic bag. I don’t know much about hammocks but they always seem to be bulky too.

I wouldn’t be using a seat pack on a dropper post.

Not with any sort of weight in.

They’re not designed for it and I saw it destroy a Reverb on a mates bike.

Up to you, never been a problem for me.

Re:the Valais … I looked at one of those but discounted it because it looks like you have to disassemble the dropper to fit (unless the material is so flexible it just snaps into place?)

Part of the reason it’s expensive, it is flexible and just (with a bit of effort) slides over – it’s a 200mm dropper so I leave it on all the time and just slide it up/down whether I’m using a seatpack or not.

After having tried a number of solutions over the years I got Blackburn’s Outpost seatpack & handlebar bags; they come with waterproof drybags with air valves.  Waterproof, replaceable and compressible.  Stable too.

I’ve avoided racks purely because offroad the ability of the softbags to ‘bounce’, and good ones are proper expensive.

In the spirit of “what do you do”, here’s my King Alfred’s Way rig from last week:

Bar bag contains sleeping bag (down, sorry) and most of the tent (outer, inner). Outer/inner in their own bag, sleeping bag wrapped around them and seriously squished in. Little top-tube bag is just full of food, suncream, penknife, front light, arm warmers, small junk. I’d often put this in pockets or a rucksack. Frame bag contains heavy crap, notably tent poles, pegs, pump, tools, battery, etc. Seat pack contains sleeping mat, stove/mug (though I didn’t carry them on this trip) and then clothes/light food/down jacket/etc. Our brief for the trip was carrying about a day of food, but hoping we’d not necessarily use it.

Main lessons from a few trips of this now: a) take less; b) can you get away with smelling worse? c) you can squash stuff harder than you think.

Also: compression bags aren’t always a good idea; those drybags (esp ones with air valves) act as compression chambers. So I’ll ram something really hard in the bottom, and use the straps on (eg) the saddle pack to compress it hard. Note how tight the rear compression straps on my seat pack are. So I don’t use the compression sack for my sleeping bag, I just squish hard.

Looking at your rig, you have a good amount of space. That bar bag has a LOT of space left in it from the looks of it, I’d squish it full of all those squashy light things (but not jackets, you want easy access to those). Don’t put the down thing in the frame: that’s for your spares, cookset, tools, food, and then whatever else goes in there. Maybe try getting some of that in there first? And then again, that rear bag… those rear straps look like they have a way further to compress. I don’t think you need to go to “proper down” – I used a small synthetic bag for a while; the only thing possibly making your life hard is quilt and blanket. But that’s a decent storage setup, and it should be possible to make it go.

Finally: don’t panic about the existential crisis of “jesus this won’t all fit”. I had one of those just before KAW, and then I parked it, went away, and got more aggressive with the squishing.

This is an old blog, and I’ve changed a lot of my kit since it was written, but it might be useful at this point in your bikepacking journey.

https://www.blog.scotroutes.com/2013/05/bikepacking-kit-list.html

@tall_martin do you find the bar bag interferes with the shifter levers when changing gear on the Transition?

Nope. I had a 50cm wide flared salsa cowchipper bar and rolled the bag so it didn’t .

If you look closely in my last photo in the OP, I’ve circled some stiff foam pads which appear to be designed to push the bag away from the bars (to clear cables/hoses?) but just increase leverage of the weight. It has velcro straps as well as webbing straps to hold it in place but they both seem ineffective. I don’t think bungee or volie straps would help. I may have to rig up something like stiff foam to wedge between the back of the bag and the head tube.

I just strapped the bar bag tight to the bar with bungee cords for several trips. It did affect shifting a bit, but I’ve only done one night trips for the last 20 years.

Do stem bags effect the bike manoeuvrability? It seems they could restrict the turning circle….

Nope.

This was my setup for last years bikepacking trip

Bar bag – sleeping stuff: sleeping bag, Bivvy, pillow (I didn’t own a sleeping mat at that point)

Frame bag – cooking stuff: jetboil and gas, rice / noodle pots emptied into zip lock bags to save a little space, spork, mug, extra snacks

top tube bag – grab snacks and bars

Seat pack – spare clothes (socks, shorts, tshirt, warm top and hat for night, towel, warm waterproof jacket, spare gloves wet wipes, small case with power pack, charging leads and head torch, anything else that doesn’t belong anywhere else

hip pack – bike spares / tools, extra water bottle

lightweight waterproof jacket strapped to top of bar bag

still left with small amounts of space here and there

cant remember the exact size(s) of my bags but give or take

Topeak midloader – 4.5l

topeak backloader – I think 15l

Topeak frontloder – I think 12l

topeak top loader – circa 1l

hip pack – circa 4l

My bar bag does have those little blocks to help keep it away from cables and levers, I normally counteract any droop in the bag by tilting it upwards and tightening a couple of the straps around the lot,  the straps you get wrapped around ikea mattresses are ideal for this, seems to solve the issues

To the OP – feels like a lot of your kit could compress more?

Not really. It’s fairly cheap synethic rather than duck or goose down. And the zip on the Ortlieb frame bag is a pain in the arse as it’s very “tight” so impossible to open it wide enough to slide in anything in a compressed stuff sack. Even at its widest, I can barely fit my hand inside the bag. I don’t know whether is just a problems with Ortliebs design or whether it’s a limitation all frame bags have (this is my first and only frame bag so far!)

@scotroutes

Thanks for you link but its just highlighting that I either have to invest in duck/goose down or re-think the bag selection. I do have rack mounts on the frames – in fact I’ve got a couple of very old racks and panniers if I really need to go down that route. Having said that, I’ve never tried the racks with 29 x 2.6 tyres…

Thanks for everyone else who have chipped in! Keep your ideas coming!!

Ive been perusing bikepacking.com and they seem very GCN-like in that all solutions seem to involve spending lots of $$$…which I’m not averse to once I’ve worked out what I want, and the solutions are actually available and they need to work on two bikes….

Ortlieb stuff is designed to be fully waterproof and it works very well, but that does mean less flexible zips and fabrics. Avoid over packing anything that has a zip closure as this is always the first thing that fails!

If you have a pannier rack already, you could just strap a bigger drybag on top of it with some Voile straps, this will likely be easier to pack than your saddle pack.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that hammock kit is almost always more bulky than ground sleeping, so ultimately panniers or a backpack might be the easiest (and cheapest) solution.

As you say, GCN,Bikepacking.com, etc will tend to show the higher end gear that’s available, but you really don’t need to invest that much at the start. You should start with what you have to A: see if you actually like bikepacking, and B: start to work out what you like and dislike about your setup, then you can start to refine it.

I have found the droopy bar bag thing a right faff as well.

My temporary solution is using a single clip on tri bar to keep it up and off the wheel & away from rubbing the headtube.

If I do much more bikepacking then I’ll look at either this handy Specialized Fjallraven handlebar rack.

https://www.fjallraven.com/uk/en-gb/bags-gear/fjallraven-specialized/sf-handlebar-rack/?v=F23235::7323450805333

or the Restrap Bumper Bar

https://restrap.com/collections/cages-mounts/products/bumper-bar

but I’ve been too tight so far to actually commit to either.

Have just invested in an Aeroe Spider bar cradle thingy (discounted just now at winstanleys). First impressions are really good. Stable, room behind for cables, easy to fit and remove bag. First proper test this weekend but I’m cautiously optimistic.

Ive seen a few of those handlebar racks but anything reasonably cheap and/or actually available are designed around 31.8mm diameter bars…and my Devinci uses 35mm. Grrrr

I sympathise OP. Only been out once so far but my XL sleeping bag took up the whole of my alpkit handlebar bag and even then it was tough to stash it in, took quite a bit of effort! I’ve since invested into an ortelieb fork bag which hopefully will take a hydrant or similar

Ive seen a few of those handlebar racks but anything reasonably cheap and/or actually available are designed around 31.8mm diameter bars…and my Devinci uses 35mm. Grrrr

The Aeroe one works fine on 35mm. That’s what mines on. Straps have two settings, one for 35, one for 31.8, plus quite a bit of adjustment in each.

Thread derail but is no one going to mention  whatever is going on with OP’s front logo and valve?!? I’m so confused right now… 😉